<p>swimcatsmom: well…they are multiple choice tests 0.0
(and considering she lets us confer with other students she expects us to all get 100s)
For non-multiple choice tests, however, it’s not hard to do your own work with some input of ideas from others. This is high school, btw, so most of the answers are straightforward. All you have to do is answer it in your own words, and compare general concepts so we know that we didn’t do something horribly wrong. </p>
<p>maybe my school is unusual?</p>
<p>besides, such takehome tests and homeworks are designed to help us learn. She really doesn’t give a damn whether or not we copied, just that we wouldn’t have learned as much and would suffer on the tests. The small points that the takehomes are worth won’t be able to counterbalance a poor inclass test grade.</p>
<p>Although I may have rendered a rather harsh criticism against your school’s delinquents, frankly I am appalled by your nonchalance in regard to academic integrity. To think that you may benefit from an excellent education at Columbia.</p>
<p>Morality and ethics, indeed, are not black and white.</p>
<p>However, the act of plagiarism evinces a lack of respect for others and respect for oneself. It is not simply a “mistake.” People who cheat consciously do so–they assume an active role in committing their crime–and deserve more than a slap on the wrist. They disregard the trust and intimacy that the process of learning as a community is supposed to foster. Cheating is a despicable act, and if we as a society are to give more leeway in tolerating the misdeeds of these delinquents, where will we draw the line?</p>
<p>All of your genuine surprise at my comments shed light on how we as a society, we as a generation, no longer rank personal integrity among our highest ideals.</p>
Okay, I’m going to assume you’re talking to me. 1) Have I shown nonchalance towards academic integrity? Perhaps I should just substitute “take home tests” with “homework, the only purpose of which is to help us learn by opening up discussions between students.” I didn’t know that other schools took take-home tests as serious tests. That’s not what the definition of “Take home tests” as in my school. Perhaps, then, they should change the name. Whatever. Does not matter. 2) Why do you bring up columbia?? I don’t go to columbia, nor did I apply there yet. </p>
<p><em>sigh</em> Honestly, the biggest problem here is that everyone assumes everything. That and everyone gets incensed by the smallest disagreement.</p>
<p>
True. You’re certainly one of few who still respond to academic dishonestly so vehemently. When you go to college, you’ll probably be among many people who are not as absolutely morally correct as you are. Did they all deserve to be rejected? There wouldn’t be any more people in the college. Personally I don’t see how small actions that could technically be considered cheating (ie. filling in a bubble at the last minute during the SATs, copying HW from other students which the teacher isn’t even going to check or collect anyways) should require too severe punishment.</p>
<p>Karma comes back in many forms… it happens. And I don’t feel BETTER because I believe in karma, I’m still really ticked off at those who cheat! But honestly, my brother used to cheat in high school and even before he got caught, he would tell me he was always nervous about it. That’s no way to live!</p>
<p>Hey kids, don’t cheat. It makes you (appropriately) look like a loser^12398983.</p>
<p>Okay, I’m just going to chime in here to help out Narcissa. I’ve taken “tests” like that before as well. It’s a DIFFERENT type of assignment than the one that the kid got caught cheating for. It’s basically a way for the teacher to get the kids to look closely at the problems and discuss them with each other because 100%s are expected, so there is no curve. In such a situation, the teacher TELLS the students that this is the type of assignment and often gives it out to boost grades while still encouraging the students to work.
It does defeat the point of the exercise to simply copy bubbles from someone else’s sheet, but the whole point of it is to confer with your classmates.</p>
<p>That said… what the kid in the OP did by cheating on a real test is disgusting. If he’s smart enough to get accepted into an Ivy in the first place, he shouldn’t have needed to cheat. Idiot. Idiot. Idiot. He’s going to regret that FAST. </p>
<p>And repercussion wise, I think it depends on the school. One of the teachers who wrote my recommendation is head of the Honor Society at my school… and he would write a scathing letter to all of my colleges if I cheated on anything. Other than that, I doubt the school would risk its reputation by not reporting it. </p>
<p>Last year we had a HUGE scandal at my school where the kids in the AP gov class got ahold of their midterm ahead of time and were passing it around. They got caught (obviously b/c there were 50+ kids involved), but it was pathetic how few colleges rescinded their acceptances. Part of the problem was that the honor code wasn’t set up yet in my school and they didn’t really have a way to discipline the kids. I know one girl got her Brown acceptance rescinded and she ended up at OWU, but most of the others stayed in their colleges.</p>
<p>I think from reading the OP you will see what the problem is. It doesn’t appear that he was at home working with a friend on the take home test but that he was in class copying the answers…probably right at the beginning of class since it says that the teacher caught him copying the answers. (I am going to guess the teacher wasn’t at his house)</p>
<p>lol thanks, I realized that my definition of a take-home test was different than everyone else’s by the responses that i got. :]</p>
<p>and newbieva, that’s exactly what i thought at first, which sounds EXTREMELY stupid. Or perhaps it’s a short answer test where he just blatantly copied sentences and ideas? </p>
<p>Hmm. My school seems a bit lenient on the plagiarizing and cheating thing (not that it’s a good thing. Plus I personally have never been involved in anything where I needed to test out how lenient my school’s policies were. ) For example, kids would copy assignments. If caught they would get a 0. Kids would plagiarize ideas off of Sparknotes. If caught they got a 0. Kids would steal answers of tests from past years. Nothing would happen. Kids would copy entire projects from past students. They usually got a 0. Nothing would be reported. It is disgusting. My town is so high -strung.</p>
<p>But think about it. You’ve worked 3 years to build up a GPA, get good test scores, participate in ECs. And you’ve been accepted to your #1 school. Would you honestly risk getting caught cheating? Even if you end up with a D in a class they probably wouldn’t rescind your app. So instead of cheating, just ask for a postponement or get a 0. Neither of which could get your app rescinded.</p>
<p>I’m merely stating implicit truths.
I don’t understand why that would offend you so much as to make such a childish retort.</p>
<p>“mistakes”</p>
<p>If you’ll read my last post, you’ll see that my perspective on the concept of “mistake” is a somewhat different from yours.</p>
<p>I suppose, choosing to plagiarize IS a mistake, i.e. a failure of proper judgment in making decisions according to values that everyone cares about to a different extent. Still, I think it should bother you at least a little that you are making such a big effort to defend cheaters.</p>
<p>kwu, I agree with you. I think it is shameful how much of a distinction there is made between copying and cheating. It’s sad how academic integrity is so devalued.</p>
<p>Narcissa, I was going to post something else. But, I am glad to see that you do realize that cheating is wrong. I think the bravest and sometimes the hardest thing to do is to tell the teacher, I can’t do it. In every case where I’ve seen that, that student gets so much more respect from the teacher for admitting it—and doing the work themselves. I just hope that you do realize that regardless of what those take home hw/tests are, you have the ability to use any resource from the internet to your notes..to your textbook. My question: Why would you need to ask another student when you have so many other resources available to you? </p>
<p>btw: (I think) And he brought up Columbia because of your numerous chance threads where you mention Ivy League schools.</p>
<p>I didn’t think it was plagiarism. I considered it cheating. But, either way, unethical.</p>
<p>I honestly hope that the OP’s friend is rejected afterwards. Hopefully, he’ll learn his lesson. Regretting that he got caught is one thing; regretting that he cheated all together is another. I hope it’s the latter.</p>
<p>I don’t know. I honestly don’t wish for him to be rejected, but definitely to learn his lesson. I don’t want to wish anything bad for anyone >.<</p>
<p>If i did something wrong I certainly wish it wouldn’t change my life this drastically. If he gets his app rescinded he’s probably going to end up at community college or state university or something.</p>
<p>kwu…all i have to say to you is let he who is without sin cast the first stone…</p>
<p>people who take such hardline and absolute positions as yourself usually do so because they either have something to hide or are so filled with spite and competitive rage that they would rather see everyone around them fail before they see themselves succeed. </p>
<p>Personally I believe that students should adopt a live and let live attitude when it comes to this. Someone earlier mentioned karma and I agree with them.</p>
<p>As for OP, first of all, why would your friend cheat on an exam after he/she got into college?? Columbia and most other colleges don’t often rescind admission offers but this is certainly one of the times where they will rescind that decision so quickly it’ll make your friends’ head spin. Let me just put it this way…if you’re friend was a columbia student and cheated on an exam (take home or otherwise) he would be suspended for at least a year or two and depending on the severity of the incident might get expelled. So clearly columbia would not allow someone to start if they have doubts that they will finish.</p>
<p>well it is cheating
b/c he copied answer from other student</p>
<p>i think it’s okay to share answers and the purpose of take home tests is to work together and get 100</p>
<p>but wat he did was coping down answer min before the class starts
not working together or sharing answers
i think he’s really stupid
if he’s going to copy it than why do it in when teacher’s there???</p>
<p>I’m not going to pray by bed every day that the guy be rejected, but it is unfair for a cheater with low ethics to be given a world-class education and be admitted over a hard working, truthful student.</p>
fine. I hate how everyone assumes everything wrongly (is that a word) But you were talking to me, right?</p>
<p>
no, that is not a “small mistake” but I was referring to fact that for every small example of where someone is not perfectly honest you had to jump in and criticize.</p>
<p>I’m not a spiteful or an uber competitive person. I actually help my classmates when they ask (which is quite often) and I love seeing others around me do well. But, I refuse to help people if it involves unethical actions. I draw the line between helping which involves teaching someone how to do something and any situation where I’m giving out answers. </p>
<p>I personally never copy or cheat. I just think it’s low when you could do just as well–if not better, if you do the work. In the long run, it truly helps people. </p>
I’m not. I’m just defending my position, that I AM PERSONALLY not a cheater, which you pretty much assumed after I said that my teacher encourages us to discuss answers from take-home tests</p>
<p>and that you take integrity wayy too stiffly–fine, it might technically be wrong to copy a few answers from homework, but honestly, who cares? The teachers don’t, they don’t even check the homework. The students don’t, they’ll learn it later anyways. So where does it harm anyone?</p>
<p>I think it was the way you said it Narcissa. It even got me wondering. I try to gear away from negative opinions based off comments…but the way you phrased the whole explanation was a bit questionable.</p>