<p>I just was getting a bit sick of the back and forth tearing apart of each post. I was trying to clarify it. In general, I really do respect you Narcissa. It was just the dubious phrasing…after all,we don’t know your school.</p>
<p>oh, okay. whatev.</p>
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um, that is really stupid >_> you know, it probably wasn’t a one time thing. He probably did this a lot before and maybe because of it got the grades he needed to get into columbia. This was just the first time that he got caught. </p>
<p>Haha oh well. Fate will decide :]</p>
<p>Why is everyone getting so worked up here? </p>
<p>Especially kwu, why do you give a damn about someone else’s moral integrity? It’s a free world. If they cheat, they run the risk of getting caught. And even if they don’t get caught, they won’t feel that sense of satisfaction/accomplishment from honest hard work that you, presumably, will. </p>
<p>It’s simple. Those who do the work will grasp the material better than those who don’t. And from a competitive standpoint, cheaters will probably be screwed on the in-class tests. </p>
<p>I admire your idealism and your desire to preserve the academic “purity” of whatever college you attend. But you aren’t doing yourself any favors with that overtly judgmental and holier-than-thou attitude, not when you could channel that into something more productive.</p>
<p>@Shraf:
“people who take such hardline and absolute positions”</p>
<p>Denzera used those particular words to describe me.
You must respect him profoundly for some reason or the other to so quickly jump to adopt his argument.</p>
<p>“as yourself usually do so because they either have something to hide or are so filled with spite and competitive rage that they would rather see everyone around them fail before they see themselves succeed.”</p>
<p>Holy crap, how did you jump to this conclusion?
Why not: “oh, you must genuinely concerned about human virtue, ethical behavior, and what constitutes a proper learning environment!”</p>
<p>@Narcissa:
“I’m not. I’m just defending my position, that I AM PERSONALLY not a cheater, which you pretty much assumed after I said that my teacher encourages us to discuss answers from take-home tests”</p>
<p>I wasn’t addressing you, dear, mea culpa >_>
I quoted Predator’s scathing response, and my words were directed toward him. I am not assuming anything here. By the way, do you have a fetish for that word? It rolls off the tongue rather nicely, I have to admit.</p>
<p>@asdfjkl1:
“I think it was the way you said it Narcissa. It even got me wondering. I try to gear away from negative opinions based off comments…but the way you phrased the whole explanation was a bit questionable.”</p>
<p>^here, asdfjkl1 expressed my concern about the attitudes of many people posting in this topic in far milder words.</p>
<p>@ShruggingSheep
“Especially kwu, why do you give a damn about someone else’s moral integrity?”</p>
<p>Have you studied ethics, theology, or philosophy…
It’s rather… important… to say the least… to care and think about the rest of mankind and the human condition.</p>
<p>“Especially kwu, why do you give a damn about someone else’s moral integrity? It’s a free world. If they cheat, they run the risk of getting caught. And even if they don’t get caught, they won’t feel that sense of satisfaction/accomplishment from honest hard work that you, presumably, will.”</p>
<p>thank you.</p>
<p>i honestly can’t believe how much this thread has been blown out of proportion, when i first read narcissa’s post about her teacher expecting students to collude, i was thinking to myself ‘well of course, it’s a freakin take home test, you’ve got to expect students to get help when they do a take home tests.’ one of the first things one learns in game theory is contracts are meaningless without an enforcement mechanism, a take home test relies on student morality not to cheat, whereas an inclass test actually has an enforcement mechanism. Now don’t take my point to the extreme because then we wouldn’t have homework assignments (that’s why HW assignments count for so little at columbia), but narcissa’s original point was that her teachers skips the naivete and lets people do well so that they learn in the process (it’s a debatable method of teaching). so what are we all getting worked up about? I’d never take a class where they offer take home tests, because if i don’t cheat i could potentially be putting myself at a serious competitive disadvantage. </p>
<p>what the op’s friend did was down right stupid, he probably hadn’t cheated much before to get caught doing something that stupid, so i kinda feel bad for him, but then again i don’t. stupidity is a crime.</p>
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<p>i actually didn’t read that but if in fact he did say that then kudos to him…just goes to show you what people will think of you once you go to college if you continue with that attitude</p>
<p>Columbia regards academic integrity very highly. In fact, they expel a number of students each year due to plagiarism. If his act is reported, the OP’s “friend” would most likely have his acceptance rescinded. Perhaps getting a ‘C’ on his paper would have done him lesser harm.</p>
<p>But in the end, it depends on his school counselor. It’s his prerogative to report this to Columbia, and for all we know, he may choose not to do so.</p>
<p>Sorry Narcissa. Makes it a lot clearer now! Usually, at least at my school, take home tests were not to be discussed, and pretty much the same goes for college.</p>
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definitely. Or even handing it in late, i’m sure a teacher would rather that than see him quickly copy the answers at the beginning of class >_></p>
<p>“just goes to show you what people will think of you once you go to college if you continue with that attitude”</p>
<p>I could honestly care less about what people like you think of me.
You’re awfully thick, and your assumptions are asinine.</p>
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<p>Source? I presume you don’t go to Columbia given your moniker. Did you just make this up?</p>
<p>In my experience, Columbia’s pretty lax with cheating. I know a few people who have had cheating issues and got slaps on the wrist. The profs like to handle these things themselves (telling someone to drop the class, giving them a zero on the assignment) for fear of creating a permanent record that will ruin someone.</p>
<p>A Columbia graduate, who has spent many years at the institution, has offered an unbiased and authoritative observation.
I have nothing left to say about the matter.</p>
<p>Columbia is the perfect kind of place for people like Narcissa, Denzera, and Shraf.
I hope you are all admitted, if you do not already attend or have not already graduated, and enjoy your experience there.</p>
<p>There’s a difference between having a moral center and being self-righteous, kwu. That’s clearly a difference you don’t yet understand or care to understand.</p>
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uh thanks??</p>
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<p>couldn’t have said it better myself </p>
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<p>huh? well, this “columbia graduate who has spent many years at the institution” (6 years next year), thinks that your attitude, which i’m sure extends to other issues and stems from your personality, will only make u undesirable to deal with both at college and in the real world… there really isn’t an upside to being so haughty with a holier-than-thou attitude, placing yourself on a false pedestal probably built on personal insecurity.</p>
<p>Frankly, I am flattered that you consider me “holier-than-thou,” but that is not my intention.</p>
<p>Perhaps you find it convenient to jump to such conclusions on account of your own “personal insecurity:” it’s unusual that you would feel so threatened by my disdain for people who cheat. Perhaps, to get where you are, you committed your own fair share of shameless acts? It’s none of my business, but I’d like to pull a “Shraf” and launch a few accusatory ad hominem attacks myself.</p>
<p>I am not insecure. I have a strong conscience and a strong sense of personal awareness.
Because I have a sturdy and well-defined “moral center,” it gives me license to be self-righteous, I suppose.</p>
<p>If you possessed any semblance of a “moral center” yourself, you would not be bothered in the slightest by my supposed self-righteousness.</p>
<p>Either you don’t understand the basics of human interaction or you don’t understand the terms “holier-than-thou” and “self-righteous” …i wouldnt think anyone would actually WANT to describe themselves using those terms </p>
<p>Either way though, I don’t think you are really understanding the reason for my posts… I dont give a hoot about your personality and it doesnt bother me… odds are you won’t get into columbia nor will i ever meet you…my posts were mainly instructive with the primary goal of indicating that this attitude won’t fly either in college or in the real world…you might not know this yet but academic success only gets you so far in life…not sure if you’ve heard the saying “it’s who you know not what you know” but it really holds pretty well across the board and the main reason to go to an ivy league like columbia is to make connections (friends, acquaintances, profs, etc) as much as it is to excel academically and if you act like a ■■■■■■ people (yes even professors, they’re human too) won’t want to have anything to do with you. </p>
<p>Its up to you whether you want to take my advice and put it in the back of your mind for when you move on to the more pivotal stages of your life when you can judge my assessments or whether you want to continue to attack me and make believe you are omniscient.</p>
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<p>I guess that so-called moral center also gives you license to be an insufferable braggart. Self-righteousness is never justified and you need to recognize it as a character flaw.</p>
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<p>Here’s the link : <a href=“http://www.columbia.edu/cu/isso/incoming/Coming_to_Columbia_for_Students.pdf[/url]”>http://www.columbia.edu/cu/isso/incoming/Coming_to_Columbia_for_Students.pdf</a> Page no. 25.</p>
<p>It says that “The most serious offense in the academic world is to represent another person’s work as your own. This is called “plagiarism”. Sadly, each year several international students are expelled from the University for plagiarism.”</p>
<p>It’s for international applicants though.</p>
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<p>this VASTLY depends on the prof and also depends on the offense. Typically, profs handle cheating on HW on their own with a grade reduction or some other punishment specific to the class. If it is reported to the dean of student affairs (again, up to the prof whether or not to report it) it typically results in anything from a warning to academic probation to suspension…rarely expulsion. </p>
<p>On the other hand, cheating on exams is taken very seriously and will almost always be reported by the prof to the dean of student affairs. From what i’ve seen the punishment ranges from suspension to expulsion, both of which would be a very significant hurdle to future success since they are reported on your transcript.</p>