<p>
well obviously every school would write that, nobody would write “Well we don’t really do anything to cheaters because we don’t want to put a mark on your recordd”</p>
<p>@Shraf:</p>
<p>I don’t think you are really understanding the reason for MY posts.
You jump at the opportunity to attack my character while completely ignoring the reasoning of my statements and why I am making them.</p>
<p>Although it is very likely I will not get into Columbia, as you say, if I were to be accepted, I would seriously consider attending a different school, in light of the quality of the students who have graduated from the institution.</p>
<p>You may criticize my personality and character all you want, but you fail to realize your own “holier-than-thou” and “self-righteous” attitude in the process. You consider yourself worldly and learned, but you yourself are in no position to give advice of any sort to me. You as paternalistic and condescending as I am. </p>
<p>Except, I am criticizing plagiarism and attitudes that thwart a productive and meaningful learning environment. That is my concern. YOUR only concern is: “wow, this guy is a jerk. Cheating is not so bad, everyone does it all the time, so it’s not as a big a deal as this nut makes it out to be, so let me tell him he’s an arrogant schmuck in order to avoid his honest attempts to tackle the bigger issue at hand.”</p>
<p>“the main reason to go to an ivy league like columbia is to make connections”</p>
<p>To be frank, I am not attending college because I want to make “connections.” I am looking for an excellent education in an intellectual community environment. College isn’t just another means to an end. That kind of attitude is similar to one that regards dishonesty as an unimportant issue.</p>
<p>I do not claim to be omniscient, nor do I feign omniscience. Neither should you. I can see right through you for the type of person you are.</p>
<p>I may be self-righteous, but I’m honest and I care about the learning experience of everyone in my community. That much I do know.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>this one is too easy, just wanted to point it out to those who missed it</p>
<p>…anyway, i’ll let whoever reads this exchange judge for themselves and i think you have at least four people on the previous page of this thread agreeing with me and calling you a ■■■■■■…literally in one case.</p>
<p>contrary to what you want to make believe was was my argument, i’ve pretty much been running through the facts of how columbia deals with this issue, students’ reactions and attitudes and my take on the right attitude for success in college and beyond. I don’t see how any of that is being self-righteous…everyone is entitled to give advice and share their experiences…i mean isn’t that the whole point of this website?? </p>
<p>On the other hand all you want to do is judge, criticize and reproach. </p>
<p>Judge not lest ye be judged.</p>
<p>wow that really sucks, but he/she should not have risked their college admissions so recklessly. At my school, the policy for cheating is that on the first offense you get an automatic zero for the assignment/test/whatever and, after that, the administration has to become involved. Guess your school straight away goes to the office.</p>
<p>i am entirely uninformed because i did not read the entire thread. however, i must ask the question: who doesn’t cheat? seriously. the people we label as “cheaters” are the ones that get caught.</p>
<p>please stop acting like you are above cheating (whoever is acting like they are above cheating…</p>
<p>^here’s why i don’t support or take classes with take home tests.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I know lots of people who don’t cheat. I certainly know lots of students who write their own homework assignments without copying from some other student.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Hear! Hear!</p>
<p>I’m just disappointed to see that this thread has degraded into petty personal insults. Academic integrity is a very important part of college. Love it or leave it. Regardless of how you feel about it, this may/will jeopardize the student who was caught.</p>
<p>I know very few students who don’t cheat. Many top students cheat. Very few NEVER cheat.. close to 0. There are many kinds of cheating. It’s definitely unfair and wrong. Tokenadult, I understand what you’re saying, but with all due respect, you’re an adult - do you think your kids are going to be 100% truthful about their friends cheating, or that their friends will be truthful to YOU about their cheating? And if your kids think a lot of people don’t cheat, do they know the whole story?</p>
<p>Amb3r, I will leave tokenadult to fully respond. But, I consider my integrity to be something that I highly value. And, I would hope that other students would take their personal integrity seriously, but they don’t. Yes, there’s a cheating epidemic and many do cheat. But, just because some do, doesn’t mean you have to. </p>
<p>I’m a woman of her word. And I do hope that throughout my life that my integrity to follow through 100% without cheating will remain intact. Actually, I depend on it.</p>
<p>I’m not questioning your integrity, I’m taking it at face value. I’m just talking about the typical high school student, who does cheat. This is the kind of situation where if you think somebody’s not cheating, you can’t be sure whether they are or they aren’t, but once you’ve seen them cheating, you know they do cheat. So if somebody thinks cheating is not extremely widespread, he might just be out of the loop, but if somebody has seen 95% of the student population cheat, there’s no doubt that practically everybody has few qualms about it.</p>
<p>Yes. I realize that. I know many cheaters myself. I try to get them to reform their ways. …Yea right, it’s not happening. But, cheating is quite hard to stop. Teachers who know that kids will cheat/copy and continue to give out those assignments without punishments only make it worse. The acceptance of cheating in our generation has made it so hard to weed out. It’s quite sad.</p>
<p>There are many ways to unconsciously “cheat”: glancing at your neighbor’s paper once in a while to see if what page of the test she’s on. talking about a test before everyone’s taken it; that’s facilitating eavesdroppers who are trying to get answers. Reading a passage online and then having small ideas from that passage to seep into your writing a few days later. Etc. I think that the only people who absolutely 100% do not cheat are the ones who actively value their integrity, who take care to not put a stain on their conscience. Otherwise many people unconsciously do “cheat,” but in such a way that it would be ridiculous to prosecute them all.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>True. But even then, I’ve never come across a school being as vocal about it as Columbia has been.</p>
<p>is there any way your friend could talk to the guidance councilor and BEG for a different punishment? e.g. 100 hours of community service, detention, classes, idk!!!</p>
<p>tokenadult: how do you know for sure they don’t cheat? how can you be 100% sure? anyways, I’m not saying they would be cheating on homework assignments… they could be doing a multitude of other cheating related activities that maybe they would not consider cheating.
the person accepted into Columbia should simply reason with the school. I’m sure any person(s) with a heart would realize the severe reprecussions at Columbia if the school were to notify. I like eating food’s idea.</p>
<p>^but then the school would get blackmailed</p>
<p>Let’s first define “cheating” as cheating on tests (midterms or finals), or projects on which a substantial portion of your grade is based.</p>
<p>By that definition, I never cheated in high school or at Columbia and didn’t know anyone at Columbia who did, either.</p>
<p>Copying problem sets / homework is not at all uncommon, but I think it’s in a different category because the person you’re hurting is yourself, at least when it’s not a substantial portion of your grade. The point of homework is to facilitate understanding; the point of exams is to measure that understanding.</p>
<p>THAT was common, even more so at columbia, because of the difficulty level of the classes and how willing students were to help each other out in a collective setting. For the hardest classes - say, physics 2800 - the only way you could realistically get problem sets done was with a group effort. When someone finally solves a problem, they explain it to the group. That’s pretty close to the intent of homework in the first place. I don’t think the academic-integrity sticklers around here would have much support if they were to rail against helping each other on homework.</p>
<p>I would agree with Denzera. Helping each other on homework is not only acceptable but desirable in the sciences. The person who really learns is the one who explains the problem to the rest of the group.</p>
<p>In math and in the sciences, I think many professors encourage students to work together on homework assignments. Rule of thumb is generally that each student must write out the answers for himself/herself. It’s up to the prof to say what his/her expectations are.</p>
<p>Exams are another matter, as has been pointed out. Unless a prof specifically says that for some reason collaboration is ok, it’s understood that this is an individual assessment of what you’ve gotten out of the course and therefore to be done on your own. What this high school student did puts his whole record into question. Did he get the grades that got him into Columbia by cheating his way through high school? Sure, kids under pressure sometimes make mistakes. If this were my kid I’d be disappointed, angry at him, and my heart would bleed for him about the major consequences all at the same time. But it seems unlikely this was a one time event, given that he cheated at a time when his grade counted the least – after he’d already been admitted to college. Moral character aside, I think Columbia would be justified in wondering whether or not this student could perform at Columbia without cheating, since they now have no way to judge his high school work, and be completely justified in revoking his admission.</p>