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. From first hand experience I know that UC Davis just built a new genome building, UC Davis also received I believe 113 million in federal funds a few years ago. The funding for biology related science is just skyrocketing now. Hell look at the stock splits for all the biotech companies out there (especially in San Diego). Although we have mapped out the human genome, It still needs to be analyzed and understood. Various sources have predicted it will take at least 30 years before we achieve the current projections of being able to grow viable human organs, create designer babies, analyze which genes are responsible for human defects, grow vaccinated crops. We have so much information to process in human genetics that I would not be worried about the job security of talented young individuals planning on a career in any area of the biotechnology industry. Why dont you take a look at the stock value of Genentech?
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<p>Once again, unggio83, you've missed the point. To repeat, we are talking about comparing occupations on a relative scale. You keep talking about the outsourcing of engineering. Do you honestly believe that bio and pharma jobs are immune to outsourcing? If so, why? India has one of the largest generic pharmaceutical industry of any nation in the world. Not only that, but India is moving rapidly to upgrade its biotech and patent pharmaceutical prowess. </p>
<p>You said it yourself -the jobs that are the least easily outsourced are the ones that require close contact with the consumer. I agree. So to follow that line of logic, why don't you think that bio and pharma can't be outsourced? In fact, major US pharmaceutical companies are doing it already. Pfizer and Merck are already building research centers in India and China, with more surely to come. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.forbes.com/insights/2004/05/28/cz_kd_0528outsourcing.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.forbes.com/insights/2004/05/28/cz_kd_0528outsourcing.html</a></p>
<p>So you talk about things like the HGP and other major bio advances. The question is - why do you assume that that work has to be done in the US? Do China/India suffer from a lack of people who can do bio research? Research can be done anywhere. Where is it written that bio and chem research can only be done in the US?
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Also if you majored in a bio field you can no doubt apply to medical school, become a nurse, physicians assistant, or also become a researcher, or go work for Genentech. I also forgot to mention that w/ a chemistry degree, you can become a pharmacist w/ grad school of course.
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<p>And are you saying you can't do any of these things with an engineering degree? I think you can. Many have. Plenty of engineers from, say, MIT, go on to medical school.</p>
<p>Hence to me, you have not answered the bio question at all. You have not shown that getting a bio degree is any better than getting an engineering degree. Bio research jobs are being outsourced ,just like engineering jobs are. </p>
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I will guarantee you that if you major in comp sci, EE, ME and only have a bachelors you WILL get laid off within 7- 10 years.
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<p>And to turn that around, are you saying that if you have only a bachelors in bio or chem, you guaranteeing me that you won't get laid off? Come on. </p>
<p>In fact, I would expand the issue further. How many fields are there in which you can get just a bachelor's and be completely immune to layoffs forever? Not too many, are there? Certainly not arts or film. So an engineering bachelor's is no different from any other bachelor's in this regard. So why do you keep bringing it up? </p>
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Choose a specialty that requires physical proximity to the customer (patient), so that it can never be outsourced. Also about the medical tourism, it will be a while before that becomes mainstream. it needs to rampant enough, like outsourcing of tech in engineering. It will be a very long time before that happens, (my opinion of course). Some people dont have the time to travel to India to do their surgery. What happens in automobile accidents, someone with a heart attack, think theyre going to wait for a plane ticket to India instead of going to a hospital within their own city?
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<p>The point is that outsourcing will take its toll wherever it can. Obviously there are some physician jobs that cannot be outsourced. But you cannot tell me that there aren't any at all. There are plenty of extremely expensive medical procedures that you need to survive, but not immediately. For example, if you need tear your ACL, you don't need surgery immediately. You can even limp for months on a torn ACL, albeit painfully. If you need rotator-cuff surgery, you don't need it immediately. If you want plastic surgery, then you obviously don't need that immediately. A stripper who wants a boob job can afford to wait for a bargain. In all of these scenarios, it is highly viable for you to hop on a plane and have the procedure done overseas. </p>
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Most doctors are primary care doctors. If youre in primary care, guess what youll be safe from outsourcing.
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<p>Even that, I don't particularly buy. The advent of telemedicine (basically, doctors delivering care over videoconferences) will ultimately mean less overall demand for even primary-care doctors. You can never safe that anybody is completely safe from outsourcing. </p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telemedicine%5B/url%5D">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telemedicine</a></p>
<p>The net effect is that primary care doctors will be able to "see" more patients than normally could, which ultimately means the nation needs less primary-care doctors. For example, let's say that telemedicine provides the ability for primary-care doctors to treat 5 times more patients than they do now. Well, the number of patients hasn't increased. That therefore means that you need 5 times less primary-care doctors. </p>
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There is no, I repeat NO COMPARISON in terms of job security and even pay between engineers and doctors. Sure you might say engineers dont have doctorates. So fine compare only the phd. engineers with medical doctors.
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<p>No, I think a FAR better comparison is to look at people with bio undergrad degrees who went to medical school, and people with engineering degrees, who also went to medical school. Who has more job security? I think you must agree that that's a wash. </p>
<p>Perhaps another fair way to look at it is to look at doctors vs. undergrad engineers who then got their MBA's from elite schools. After all, I would argue that getting into med-school is somewhat equivalent to getting an elite MBA. Even then, I don't think it is totally comparable, because I would argue that going through med-school, then through the medical internship and residency is probably substantially harder than getting an elite MBA. But in any case, THAT Is fair.</p>
<p>Getitng a doctorate in engineering is something you do for a hobby. An engineering Phd is not a professional degree the way that an MD is, so the two are not comparable. An Engineering PhD is more akin to a fine arts degree in that you do it because you love the field as a hobby, not because you actually expect to advance yourself financially by doing is. It has been well-established that getting an engineering doctorate is actually a LOSING propostition from a financial standpoint because the salary you forgo by staying in school is not compensated for by the boost in salary once you've attained the doctorate. Just like you don't want me to keep talking about arts and film degrees, I would advise you to stop talking about engineering doctorates. </p>
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Work for the FBI, BATFE...
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<p>Is that so great? </p>
<p>"But when the 34-year-old Long Island native leaves his New York City office, he returns to a life he says he never bargained for: a spartan rented room here, 42 miles south of the city. Assigned to one of the world's most expensive cities with a salary of just $48,000 and with more than $106,000 in student loans to pay off and credit-card debts near $10,000 he says it's all he can afford. </p>
<p>"I took an oath when I joined the FBI," says the agent, who has been with the FBI for four years and who asked not to be identified. "I never thought it would also include a vow of poverty."</p>
<p>His story is similar to those of dozens of FBI agents whose dire financial situations have created what bureau officials acknowledge is a growing threat to national security."</p>
<p><a href="http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-04-05-cover-fbi_x.htm%5B/url%5D">http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-04-05-cover-fbi_x.htm</a></p>
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Also the places where firefighters get only $17.42 an hour, are probably places with low costs of living. Average cop salary in the bay is about 60K a year, they make about $43 an hour overtime as off duty security. Trust me most firefighter salaries in the bay run about 60K or more. Dont forget overtime again.
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<p>And once again, you're comparing nationwide engineering salaries vs. blue-collar salaries in the Bay Area. You know as well as I do that salaries of engineering Bay Area jobs are also higher than that of engineers nationwide. What we should be doing is comparing Silicon Valley engineering salaries vs. blue-collar Silicon Valley salaries. Why don't you do that?</p>