<p>Preferably those who have finished their undergrad, I want to know whether engineers (specifically bioengineers) can switch between fields after awhile. Seeing so many engineering jobs being outsourced and so many people job hunting with no results now, I fear that by the time I graduate I will have high difficulty even finding a job to begin with. So the question is whether engineers (bioe) can switch to another field (after a few years working as an engineer or immediately aftering getting the B.S. degree) such as business or economics.</p>
<p>First off, let me say this. It is true that engineering jobs are getting outsourced. But let's face it, so are the jobs in a lot of other fields. In fact, I would argue that it may actually be easier to outsource a lot of 'officework' jobs, than it is to outsource engineering jobs. For example, it's not hard at all to outsource the jobs of accountants and bookkeepers. It's not hard at all to outsource financial analyst jobs, or paralegal jobs. </p>
<p>If I may digress, I would also point out that while outsourcing gets a lot of hype, far far more jobs are lost through simple automation and mechanization? For example, how many bank tellers have lost their job because of the invention of the ATM? How many travel agents have lost their job because of the rise of Internet travel sites like Expedia and Travelocity? How many people who used to work at flea markets and specialty collector's stores have lost their jobs because of Ebay? How many encyclopedia salesmen have lost their jobs because of Microsoft Encarta? How many bookstore workers are unemployed because of Amazon.com? </p>
<p>I would point out that if you think engineering is no good, then I would ask, what's the alternative? The fact is, engineering still gets, on average, the highest starting salary of any undergrad major. If outsourcing were really destroying all engineering jobs, then the free market would adjust and engineers would not be making the starting salaries that they do.</p>
<p>However, in answer to your direct question, it is indeed possible for engineers to switch careers. For example, for many years now, one of the largest employers of engineering students from MIT, if not the largest employer, has not been a high-tech company or an engineering company, or even an Internet company. No. It's been McKinsey, the most prestigious management consulting firm in the world. Other big employers of MIT engineering students have been the consultancies BCG, and Bain, and investment banking houses like Goldman Sachs, Merrill Lynch, Morgan Stanley, and others. I know these companies are also very big employers of engineers from Stanford and other top engineering schools. </p>
<p>Another highly popular career path for engineers to take is to work a few years as an engineer and then get their MBA, preferably from a top school. People with engineering degrees tend to make up one of the largest contingents of the entering classes of the top B-schools. For example, at the MBA program at the MIT Sloan School, engineers make up 40+% of the entering class. At the Stanford Graduate School of Business, Wharton, Kellogg, HBS, and others, they can make up a good 20-30%. Some of these guys will go back to become managers at tech/engineering companies. However others will become consultants, bankers, financiers, etc.</p>
<p>Sakky is 100% correct. It is not merely engineering firms that recruit engineering students at Engineering programs. Woah...lots of "engineering" in one sentence! At many of the top engineering programs, major pharmaceutical, financial and consulting firms will recruit engineering students heavily...for their strong analytical, quantitative, technical, project management and team working skills and not for their Engineering skills.</p>
<p>Take Michigan for example. It is obviously true that most of the biggest recruiters on campus are companies like Boeing, Bristol Myers Squibb, British Petroleum, Caterpillar, Chevron, Cisco, Dow, Eli Lilly, Exxon Mobil, Ford, GE, GM, HP, IBM, Intel, Jet Propulsion Lab, Johnson & Johnson, Lockheed Martin, Medtronic, Merck, Microsoft, NASA, Northrop Grumman, Pfizer and Schumberger. In short, Engineering firms recruiting Engineers. </p>
<p>But many companies that recruit undergraduate students have nothing to do with Engineering. Companies like Accenture, Bain, BCG, Booz Allen Hamilton, McKinsey, Bank of America, Bank of New York, Bank One, Citigroup, Credit Suisse First Boston, Deutsche Bank, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Merrill Lynch, Morgan Stanley and UBS. In fact a whopping 10%-15% of Michigan undergraduate engineers end up working for those financial/consulting firms listed above. </p>
<p>Other excellent Engineering programs like Carnegie Mellon, Cornell, Georgia Tech, Illinois, Johns Hopkins, Northwestern, Princeton and Texas-Austin would have similar stats to Michigan too. Obviously, the heavy hitters, (Cal, CalTech, MIT and Stanford) could have even more impressive stats. I am sure Sakky can give you more details on them.</p>
<p>what about switching from one engineering field to another say mechanical to electrical?</p>
<p>Yes!!
It is very easy to transfer between fields in engineering.</p>
<p>You mean to switch major from one to another, or switch fields once you've already graduated?</p>
<p>The latter.</p>
<p>Well..Both but it's very easy in the working world because the companies want skills and knowledge not just what it says on your diploma</p>
<p>Well, I wouldn't say very easy. It depends on the job. It would be hard for me to imagine a civil engineer who spent his whole life building bridges who would be able to instantly become a software engineer. </p>
<p>However, there is a lot of overlap between many engineering disciplines, and many companies hire a wide range of engineers. For example, for its wafer fab process, Intel hires chemical engineers, electrical engineers, mechanical engineers, materials science engineers, industrial engineers, and others. Once you've been hired into the job, Intel doesn't care about what engineering discipline you have. You will be judged solely by how well you do your job. </p>
<p>This also holds in general. After you've been in the working world for awhile, rarely does anybody care about what engineering discipline you came from. The only thing that matters is what jobs you held and how well you did your job. I know a guy whose degree is in chemical engineering but has worked in information technology and computer science for years. He can't really go back to taking a chemical engineering job, but he's a respected IT guy who can compete for any job in that field. </p>
<p>As far as switching while you're still in school, that is dependent on the school. At some schools, like Berkeley, it's quite difficult to make certain switches. For example, it's quite difficult to switch from, say, Civil Engineering to EECS. That's because EECS is heavily impacted and so available spots are allocated competitively. You basically have to do well in all the EECS prereq coursework, and you still might not be able allowed to switch if there aren't enough spots. However, at other schools like MIT, Stanford, Caltech, etc., you are free to switch around to your heart's content.</p>
<p>It is easier to switch to another field right from undergrad, as opposed to later on. </p>
<p>If an employer is going to hire somebody who doesn't really know anything, frequently they will prefer a kid right out of school for this, rather than someone who has been doing something else.</p>
<p>If you want to switch areas/ fields later on, additional training or education will frequently be required. This usually means getting another degree of some kind.</p>
<p>"The fact is, engineering still gets, on average, the highest starting salary of any undergrad major."</p>
<p>That's terribly misleading. If you take into account ALL jobs (not just ones you can get with a simple Bachelors degree), then the rankings come out different. For example, note the huuugge differential in pay here....</p>
<p>1> Surgeons - $350k
2> Doctors (non-surgical) - $210k
3> CEOs - $160k
4> Dentists - $130k
5> Lawers - $120k
...
?> Pharmacists - 80k
...
?> Computer Engineers - $60k
?> Civil engineers - $55k</p>
<p>Obviously some engineers in the depths of silicon valley will make 100k or so after many years (if not outsourced), but engineering is simply not a high paying job if you take the National average. Even if you get a Phd in engineering, you won't be able to make much more than the guys getting a BS...however, a grad degree such as LLM, MD, MBA etc. will really boost your income.</p>
<p>"So the question is whether engineers (bioe) can switch to another field"</p>
<p>....yes, you can switch to anything come grad school time. However, if you want to become a lawer, doctor etc., you much have certain prerequisite courses completed! I'm planning on taking all the chem, bio etc courses, which getting a double major . Also, I'm planning on taking the MCATS to get into a med school.</p>
<p>golubb, your figures are vastly misleading for all the reasons I've already mentioned in another post.</p>
<p>Once again, you arn't taking into consideration all of the variables.</p>
<p>ps. What kind of doctors make an average of 210k??? SPECIALISTS make a little more than this, but your run-of-the-mill M.D. family doctor, without obstetrics, makes about $150 K. You've inflated these values well beyond the national average. Also, a general surgeon averages $255 K, not $350... you're numbers are strongly exaggerated in an effort to bolster your arguement, and those numbers alone still do not tell the complete tale.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos074.htm%5B/url%5D">http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos074.htm</a></p>
<p>It is not easy as it sounds</p>
<p>First, you gotta get a killer job, top MBA programs want experienced people with nice jobs
Second, you gotta quit your job
Third, it ain't easy to get in top 15 MBA programs, tough competition even between engineers
Fourth, you gotta get money to pay for MBA program, a lot of $$</p>
<p>"However, if you want to become a lawer, doctor etc., "
There are no prerequisites for law. That is the beauty of going to law school, for you can major in anything.</p>
<p>Suppose you want to make a career in business. You hear all over the place that tech backgrounds are preferred, so you consider a major in engineering. But the school you go to, although it's very good at engineering, is considered one of the elite economics schools. Namely, Princeton. Would it be a better idea to major in MechE with a Finance certificate, or concentrate more heavily on Econ? Better idea, meaning which would be more valuable to employers (meaning taking passion out of the decision process)?</p>
<p>Also about MBAs, I understand that i-banks pay for their embloyees to go to b-school after 2-3 years of work.</p>
<p>Can I ask the same question, but with Stanford?</p>
<p>"golubb, your figures are vastly misleading for all the reasons "</p>
<p>Whatt??? The links that you posted supports my claim!!! Remember, $225k is only for "general" surgeons. That are many other kinds of surgeons such as LASIK surgeons , Plastic Surgeons, cardiologists etc. that make well over $5M.....if you take the overall average, you get a much, much higher number that the $225k.</p>
<p>Please investigate some more before making accusations.</p>
<p>I seriously doubt that any doctors make $5 mil per year. Golubb_u has a grossly exaggerated view of the medical profession.</p>
<p>golubb_u, your posts are humorous if nothing else. Yes, a surgeon may make 225k a year if they're on their A game, but liability insurance can easily run up to 150k a year. Do the math, doesn't look so fun huh? Engineers however do not usually have to worry about angry teenage girls with a dimple on their brand new noses! Engineering is certainly one of the most solid professions available. If you disagree, please feel free to pursue one of those other professions you hold in such high esteem...and leave us engineers alone in our wee little forum:P</p>
<p>on another note, boomer sooner!</p>
<p>"Whatt??? The links that you posted supports my claim!!! Remember, $225k is only for "general" surgeons. That are many other kinds of surgeons such as LASIK surgeons , Plastic Surgeons, cardiologists etc. that make well over $5M.....if you take the overall average, you get a much, much higher number that the $225k.</p>
<p>Please investigate some more before making accusations."</p>
<p><em>Whatt???</em> lol</p>
<p>255k, not 225, is the number cited. And that is in fact the average salary a surgeon commands, at least according to the U.S. Department of Labor's Occupational Outlook handbook.</p>
<p>You also said that the average non-surgeon makes 210K, 60K more than the ACTUAL value of 150K, according to the Department of Labor. The highest average salary is Anesthesiologist, which comes in at nearly 307K, a very high number, but over 40K less than your exaggerated value.</p>
<p>And you still havn't acknowledged all of the other factors mentioned in the other thread. You are flat out wrong in thinking that engineering is a poor profession to enter into.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Malpractice insurance. You pay it, I don't.</p></li>
<li><p>Debt. You pay for your graduate degrees. I don't have too.</p></li>
<li><p>Opportunity cost. While you take on that debt, I command the largest possible starting salary for anyone with a Bachelor's degree. And that includes B.S. degrees in microbiology, premed, ect. ect.</p></li>
<li><p>Time is money. I will have money 4 years before you. That means I will be already making payments on a house 4 years before you, and potentially (and hopefully) investing my money wisely four years before you.</p></li>
<li><p>Lifestyle. "Don't get to comfy with the wife, and don't stray to far from the hospital, because we may need you to come in at a moments notice." It's called a pager, and you'll be on call. I will not. When I go home for the night and/or weekend, my time is mine, worry free. I will also be financially prepared for marriage (IE, out from under debt) long before you, allowing me to (if I choose) start a family BEFORE I'm 25, rather than after I'm 30.</p></li>
<li><p>Personal preference. While it may shock someone who hasn't really thought things through, it just could be that some people truly hate biology. These very same people may actually ENJOY physics and calculus. I would have been miserable if I had spent the last three years working on a degree in biochemistry, knowing that the next 5 years held nothing more than more of the same, and a vast amount of debt to pile on top of it.</p></li>
<li><p>The vast majority of your early, mid, and even late 20's will be spent putting in an AWFUL lot of hard work, with litterally little to no money to show for most of it. My (also very hard) work will pay off, allowing me to enjoy all of my mid-to-late 20's. Believe it or not, when you're 55 and making more money than me, you can't buy back the youth that you missed out on and I enjoyed.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>So, while you're spending the 4 years after your undergrad taking on as much as 20K or even more than 25K a year in debt, I'll be out making 50K. At the end of four years, if we put that value at a conservative 20K, that puts me 280K ahead of you. You will have to work a long time to make up that kind of a headstart. If the debt is more like 25K per year, now we're talking 300K behind the engineer. And at right about the 4 year mark, I'll be ripe and ready to take on a graduate degree of my choosing, purely on a part time basis, with my employer picking up the tab, of course. So I won't take on any more debt, but after I get my M.S. and/or M.B.A., I'll get promotions and raises. The U.S. Department of Labor reports that Engineering Managers earned annual salaries right below the 6 figure mark, and this doesn't include other incentives, including expense accounts, stock option plans, and bonuses. (<a href="http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos009.htm%5B/url%5D">http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos009.htm</a>) These bonuses and stock options plans can, depending on who you work for, be quite impressive.</p>
<p>Irregardless, there's absolutely nothing wrong with going into the medical profession. It's a noble profession that provides a great opportunity to help others while yielding good earning potential. My uncle is a specialist, and he lives quite comfortably. So, if biology is what you're into, then more power to you, you've made a good decision.</p>
<p>But this whole nonsense here:
"That's terribly misleading. If you take into account ALL jobs (not just ones you can get with a simple Bachelors degree), then the rankings come out different. For example, note the huuugge differential in pay here....</p>
<p>1> Surgeons - $350k
2> Doctors (non-surgical) - $210k
3> CEOs - $160k
4> Dentists - $130k
5> Lawers - $120k
...
?> Pharmacists - 80k
...
?> Computer Engineers - $60k
?> Civil engineers - $55k "</p>
<p>is the thing that is actually "terribly misleading". As I've already pointed out, you're only comparing anual salaries (and inaccurate one's, at that), and havn't taken into account the many other benefits that an engineer gets that a doctor does not, and what more, you arn't even comparing them on a level playing field.</p>
<p>The "Terribly Misleading" statement simply said that engineers can make more money on a bachelor's than can anybody else. This is, in fact, true. Take a look at the professions you cited for your rebuttle. M.D.'s, J.D.'s, ect. ect... those don't look like B.S. degrees to me. And then you compare them to the B.S. pay-rates of an engineer.</p>
<p>That would be like me making a post saying how much more money an engineer makes than a doctor by comparing the average engineer after he has his M.S. and/or M.B.A. to the average person with only a B.S. in microbiology. You've completely twisted the facts. You've also neglected many of the other factors that come into play when comparing one profession's perks to another. </p>
<p>ps. Just FYI, your Civil Engineering number is also inaccurate, at least according to the U.S. Department of Labor, who reports that the median salary for civil engineers (not in management, of course) is actually a little over 60K, not your reported 55K.</p>