<p>What is considered the hardest freshman class in chemistry at harvard?</p>
<p>Harvard made a mistake (in my opinion) and did away with introductory pure chemistry courses last year. Now, freshmen generally take the life sciences 1a and physical sciences 1 series of courses. For those with a strong AP score in chemistry (5) or at least a 750 on the SAT II chemistry test, the hardest course freshmen would take is chemistry 17, or introduction to organic chemistry. It is notorious for being incredibly difficult. I took it last year and it took a lot of work to do well.</p>
<p>If you're looking for a more pure chemistry class you can also take Chem 20 right off the bat as long as long as you have the above scores or talk to the professor first. Chem 17 is more applied to biological systems, 20 is pure organic chemistry (aka, in 17 you don't really do much with solvents b/c the assumption is you'll always be in water).</p>
<p>What about for something a cut above introductory organic chemistry?</p>
<p>some icho level students have difficulties in 2nd sem orgo.</p>
<p>don't be hasty, especially if you're not at that level yet.</p>
<p>If you wanted to jump straight into p-chem (and have already done or would be willing to enroll right off the bat in college level multi-variable calc and calculus-based physics) you could take Chem 60 or 160.</p>
<p>I would echo what jdklem says though. You may not really understand what you're getting into here, and I definitely knew IChO kids that wouldn't even consider jumping up that high right off the bat. Plus, the intro orgo classes are really great courses, I think you'd be really missing out not to take them (the same cannot be said for Chem 7/PS1)</p>
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...the hardest course freshmen would take is chemistry 17, or introduction to organic chemistry. It is notorious for being incredibly difficult. I took it last year and it took a lot of work to do well...
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<p>Was it hard to begin with because organic wasn't covered in high school, or because it assumes strong prior knowledge of every other facet of Chemistry?</p>
<p>if the difficulty comes from committing reaction mechanisms to memory, I think I can stay afloat...but either way, I don't think I'd be ready for PChem by this september lol</p>
<p>17 is a difficult course, but has no pre-reqs and is doable for any freshman who has taken AP chem or has a solid chem background, as long as he/she is very ready to step into a high workload right off the bat. 17 is not tough for the same reason most orgo courses are tough nationally (memorize a ton of rxn mechanisms = lot of work). You really only need to know 10-20 mechanisms to get through the entire course. It's the application and the pace that's a killer. </p>
<p>It's also sort of a misnomer to call it Orgo I. Chem 17 is basically the full year of intro orgo condensed down into one semester. Chem 27 is essentially a biochemistry course, focusing much more on enzyme active site dynamics and protein folding than anything else. Both count as orgo if you're premed though.</p>
<p>Chem 20 is extraordinarily hard for pretty much everyone- in one test in the class last year, the highest score was a 75, and the second highest was in the 60s (it's curved, yes, but this shows the kind of material that is tested). It's ranked by the Q guide as the ninth hardest course in the school, making it the hardest chemistry class except its continuation Chem 30. I'd warn against trying to skip it (which they generally don't let people do) or expecting it to be easy just because it's "introductory."</p>
<p>That's not meant to warn against it- if you really like chemistry, by all means try as many challenging courses as you can!</p>
<p>Freshmen with lots of previous training in orgo can take Chem 30 in the fall, which I promise you will be difficult no matter who you are. It is a second semester Orgo course with special focus on Synthesis, mechanisms, pericyclic reactions, and organometallic chemistry. It is a really good class. You can also take this with Chem 100 in the fall, which is an advanced lab course which will give you a good overview of synthetic organic chemistry in the lab. Good luck!</p>
<p>Can people take both Chem 17 and 27, if they are interested in both biological applications and pure non-bio orgo?</p>
<p>Also, does anyone know the textbooks for the courses, and if they teach according to the book?</p>
<p>The textbook for chem 17 is teh Clayden Organic Chemistry book, and 27 is a course pack prepared by the professors. And yes you can take both, and even take chem 30 the following year for a thorough treatment of organic synthesis.</p>
<p>Samuelc- yes, 17-27 is what's recommended- 27 is designed to follow 17. I think you might have meant 17/20, and then the answer is no- you can take only one for credit.</p>
<p>It goes 20-30 for physical and 17-27 for bio, and you CAN take 27 and 30 if you're interested in both (they're very different courses). I hope that makes sense!</p>
<p>ETA: Oh, and the textbook I had last year for Chem 20 was this:</p>
<p>Amazon.com:</a> Organic Chemistry, Third Edition: Maitland Jones : Books</p>
<p>As of now I'm leaning towards chem 30 in the fall and chem 27 in the spring...which is what I was referring to in "cut above", not chem 60 lol</p>
<p>Hi piccolojunior,</p>
<p>First of all, you actually CAN'T take Chem 30 unless you've already taken Chem 20, it's a prerequisite. It wouldn't make sense to skip 20 and take 30 anyway, since 30 is basically a continuation of 20.</p>
<p>Also importantly, Chem 20 IS a cut above introductory organic chemistry. A few cuts above, actually. Chem 17 is somewhat easier (though it's known to be pretty seriously difficult too). Don't think that being "introductory" makes it "easy."</p>
<p>Lol what</p>
<p>I didn't think introductory orgo class I took was "easy" until recently...and are you sure I can't place out of 20?</p>
<p>Maybe I didn't follow... Did you take a college organic chemistry class? What kind of class, and where? Sorry if I'm misunderstanding you.</p>
<p>I've never heard of anyone placing out of 20, though.</p>
<p>Oh, yeah I took a college organic chemistry class, introductory, and at a local place. That has little significance though because I already finished carey's "Organic Chemistry" a few months ago and have moved onto his "Advanced Organic Chemistry: Structures and Mechanisms" book. The only reason I asked about going into chem 30 is because it was suggested to me by a current harvard chem concentrator.</p>
<p>At the stage that you're at I don't think there are that many people on the board who can help you. I'd talk with the professors once you get here (face to face if possible) or email them over the summer to see what they recommend. </p>
<p>Just to get a gauging, does that mean that you are familiar with E1, E2, SN1, SN2, organometallics, NMR, IR and other diagnostic techniques and spectra, halogenation, terpene synthesis, alcohols chem, alkane chem, carboxylate chem, etc?</p>