Child who doesn't like school

<p>Does anyone else have a child who just doesn't like school? She is finishing up the 9th grade and I am not sure how much I should push in the next few years. Let me state she has not liked school since the 3rd grade. She is bright but has to work at it. Some LD and focusing issues but they are not severe or even easily noticed. She is going to a much larger public high school next year and she stated she doesn't know if she is going to like it. I am predicting she won't. She has expressed an interest in homeschooling (I am not in favor of this one) or trying to graduate early. Another option would be at the end of 10th grade applying to a program called Middle College which is a program at the local community college.
Her stated college plan right now is to go to the local CC and transfer after 2 yrs to UCSB. Unless she gets into UCSB out of high school. For the CC option she feels she doesn't need to overly push herself academically in high school. I am of the mindset of you keep your options open and take a more rigorous high school track.
She has even eliminated career options due to the amount of school required. She has axed out vet due to the length of school. She likes the idea of psychologist or Marriage Family Therapist but also would eliminate them due to the amount of school required.
She is not lazy. She has an EC activity that she is the hardest working person at her barn. She is happy doing community service and active. She does all her homework without being told. She is easily a B+ student who with a tiny bit of effort would be an A student. </p>

<p>This is my 3rd time around and I am getting worn out. Do I push her or let her do it "her" way and possibly have less options?</p>

<p>By third time around, offer the advice which keeps options open, but let her call the shots.</p>

<p>I have a sib who also disliked school; was a B/C student with effort. Went to work after HS and rose from clerk to AA in 10 years. Decided then to go back to school. In the past 20 years, this sib has had careers in health care and education and has 2 masters degrees. No-one would have predicted that this would be the one with the most education!</p>

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It is time to get re-evaluated. When they hit the wall and have to work hard to accommodate with their current coping skills they need help. Students hit that wall at different times. DD did not hit it until college. Then we found through the testing what she needed and her sophomore year went much better. </p>

<p>Big break points are 4th grade, 7th grade, 9th grade, 11th grade then college. The skills needed to keep everything going increase at those points. If she is gettign B’s she won’t get the testing through the school. I would get private testing so she can learn the skills to make her life easier. Our tester gave DD specific things to do and plan to take back to school to get some accommodations that gave her relief in the specific trouble areas. Her grades came up and the stress went down . </p>

<p>Think of it like getting her glasses if she needed them. You would not ask her to work so hard to read without glasses if she needed them. Which BTW - have you had vision tested? She still may not want to go into a career with heavy schooling, but it might help her enjoy what she is doing now more.</p>

<p>I agree with mominva–let her try the high school next year, but be supportive (if she hates it) in exploring other options. I am impressed that she has a plan for college when she’s only finishing up ninth grade. She’s doing more thinking than a lot of early high school students do. Also know that it is possible to take a non-traditional route and have a successful student. Could she do a blend of high school courses with community college courses? Not all cc courses are inferior to high school courses and they often have way more to offer than high school (more advanced, broader, etc). Do you have access to virtual education (high school) in your state? Perhaps she can take a few online high school courses to get a taste of what it’s like to be out of the regular classroom. She may not like that, either. If she has expressed an interest in homeschooling, why not let her try designing her own course for the summer–maybe follow it up with an SAT II to validate what she’s learned. Homeschooling can be a blast (not to mention very successful) but it is not easy. </p>

<p>At any rate, a non-traditional education can work very well for the college bound student. Is it possible to chat with her guidance counselor about her options? Our high school and our school district are extremely flexible with non-traditional routes.</p>

<p>PlantMom-The plan already includes where she is going to live and the part time job she is going to have. Her riding trainer has already told her that if she goes the CC route she can work for her giving the little kids lessons. We have a rental unit that she thinks she should live in. Since she is only in 9th grade the plan also includes having dinner at home with Mom and Dad each night. (she doesn’t yet realize that at 18 dinner with Mom and Dad probably won’t sound like fun.
PlantMom you also present some other interesting ideas. She is interested in taking some community college courses. She is going to start easy this summer by taking an art class that will meet the UC and Cal State visual arts requirement. I don’t know much about virtual high school courses. I have had some discussion with someone who is exploring the option of a combination virtual high school with some onsite support. They don’t know yet if it is going to happen. My concern is how colleges will view this path.
Singersmom- we have done the vision exam. Have thought about having her retested. She had been out of Resource since 3rd grade. My spouse is not supportive of retesting due to cost. He also feels that if she doesn’t have the motivation to make the changes suggested by the psychologist it is a waste of money and time.</p>

<p>PlantMom- We have not yet met her guidance counselor but have met as a small group with a counselor from the high school. She is going from a non-traditional private to a traditional public school. I have not gotten the best feeling from the few interactions I have had with the public school. They seem to prefer students who have gone the traditional route. It is known as a strong high supportive high school so am hoping for some positive interactions in the future. I think for now they just aren’t sure what to do with the students who come from my D’s school. My other 2 went to another public high school.</p>

<p>I’m impressed that your daughter has researched her options and knows what she wants. </p>

<p>There’s nothing wrong with hating school. Many people find K-12 schooling a horrible prison. When I think about my grammar school, junior high and high school the word “incarceration” comes to mind. </p>

<p>Middle College is a fine solution for your daughter, but she unfortunately has to get through the next two years first. Are you sure homeschooling wouldn’t work? Some homeschoolers I know start taking community college classes as high school freshmen.</p>

<p>It sounds like it’s time for a new round of testing for her learning disabilities. She’ll soon need to be advocating for herself, especially if she goes to Middle College for grade 11 and grade 12, and she’ll need to have a good understanding of exactly which accommodations (if any) she’ll need. I believe California community colleges are generally excellent about accommodating students with learning disabilities; I know the one near me is. I’m wondering whether it’s actually true that “with a tiny bit of effort [she] would be an A student.” Her learning disabilities may be holding her back more than you realize. It doesn’t make sense to me that a student who works so hard in the barn, and who is so responsible about her homework, won’t put in that tiny bit of effort.</p>

<p>You should be proud to have such a hard-working kid, with such initiative.</p>

<p>You might contact local home schooling organizations and attend a meeting or two with your daughter. You could find fellow travelers whose stories sound very similar and have found something better, or you and your daughter may decide that the home school route isn’t appealing at all.
If your daughter started school an eager learner and by 3rd grade hated school, she sounds entirely healthy to me.</p>

<p>“My concern is how colleges will view this path.”</p>

<p>mom60–I have no experience with the UC system, so I don’t know how they view virtual courses. The institution offering the virtual classes would likely have some ideas about that.</p>

<p>My kids have had few problems with non-traditional transcripts that include virtual classes, community college classes, and independent study. Our state’s virtual school is fully accredited and publicly funded. As such, our high schools and state universities are required to record and accept these credits just as those acquired from traditional high schools. Likewise, dual-enrollment is not unusual here, and the state’s community college credits are meticulously correlated with high school credit and graduation requirements. Dual credit is smoothly transferred to our state’s universities.<br>
So, with their less traditional transcripts, my two college age kids have been accepted to our state’s flagship and honors college. They also have also gained admission to selective LAC’s in other states. </p>

<p>It seems that what has been important to colleges out of state–particularly with regard to virtual courses–is validating that they are as rigorous as traditional classes. Our state’s virtual school has worked hard to accomplish this in-state, and my kids have taken steps to “proof” their work where needed through AP exams and SAT II tests. This year, with our son’s applications, we had no questions at all about virtual work except from one mid-sized university which not only admitted my son (after he had answered their questions), but offered him a pretty nice scholarship.</p>

<p>Trying out a summer course at CC sounds like a great idea. That will give your D a feel for the campus and student body. I hope it works out for her. She sounds like a friend of my D’s who dual enrolled for her junior and senior years of hs. She has been riding and working with a riding therapist for disabled kids. She is aiming to complete her associates degree requirements, and then looking forward to transferring into a four year university.</p>

<p>Sweetbriar is a women’s college in virginia which deals well with late-diagnosed LD and has a major horse program, and you can major in equestrian…all sorts of professons. (I know this because SIL only got through college for the horses!)…I think Swimcats mom and Cardinal Fang are right about the retesting. LDs need not be a hurdle to an education, but kids who are not getting thier accomodations are not just dealing with the average misery of high school. They are dealing with twice as much. Eliminating that hurdle can at least provide SOME sanity and ease the confusion. Adolescence is confusing enough without spending 7 hours a day in a place where the deck is stacked against your success. I have a gifted dyslexic who loves school, and a non-dyslexic who hates school so much she looks as if we are sending her to the stockades every morning. I wouldn’t be surprised if she ended up at CIA–(the cooking one, not the espionage one.) But, that’s okay…I mean, I already did my freshman year homework! I’m not doing it again.</p>

<p>Good luck to you!</p>

<p>PlantMom- she is signed up for training to volunteer with a therapy riding program. I forgot to add she also has a part-time job to help fund her riding lessons.
Poetgrl- thanks for the Sweetbriar information. We had overnight guests last week that suggested Hollins to her. My D doesn’t like the idea of an all girls school. Girls her age are not her favorite people. She has no patience for them. Also Virginia is far from home. My D’s whole picture of Virginia comes from all the riding book series she read when she was younger and watching Saddle Club.
I am going to suggest the testing again with my spouse.</p>

<p>I’m not sure if your daughter is interested at all in pursuing an equine type degree (I’ve been riding since I was a kid and ride on my school’s team, but am not at one of the “horsey” schools, wasn’t interested in a career in the horse world) but Cazenovia College in NY has a great equine business program…it’s probably too far from home since you’re in CA but I thought I’d suggest it anyways :)</p>

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<p>You actually can’t…there’s an equine studies certificate but not a major.</p>

<p>She doesn’t plan on an equine major. She feels it is a difficult field to make a living. She would like to compete on a team. She has thought about Fresno State since she knows a couple of girls who have gotten some scholarship money from them. She has never been to Fresno. I think she can come up with some better options.</p>

<p>Yeah, that was my thoughts, too regarding equine majors and money. If she has any questions about how the teams and horse shows work (either IHSA or NCAA) I could provide some insight on that…I’m pretty knowledgeable on the whole eq team thing.</p>

<p>hj0519- that would be great. What is the difference between NCAA and IHSA?</p>

<p>IHSA is the Intercollegiate Horse Show Association. I think that the IHSA has more teams and riders. IHSA is made up mainly of club teams, I believe, but there are varsity teams that compete in the IHSA. NCAA is varsity, So you can have a varsity team that competes NCAA or (like my school) a varsity team that competes IHSA or a club team that competes IHSA. </p>

<p>The main difference other than the varsity thing is how the shows are run. In both NCAA and IHSA, you are not riding your own horse, the horse is randomly selected. In NCAA, riders are allowed a timed warm up while in IHSA you get no warm up at all. In NCAA you are only riding for the team, while in IHSA you can ride for the team and as an individual.</p>

<p>NCAA is all the same level. The jumps are (supposed to be) 3’6". At NCAA shows, there are only two teams competing. You have both over fences and flat. Riders from each team are paired up and compete against each other on the same horse. So the rider from one team will go in, do the jumping course, and receive a numerical score. The rider from the other team paired with that rider will ride that same horse over the same jumping course and will also receive a numerical score. The team whose rider receives the higher numerical score will receive a point. It’s the same format for flat. Instead of a flat class like you would have at an equitation/hunter show, you do a flat test that would be more like something you would do at a dressage show. So, same format. The riders are paired up and ride the same horse. Rider from team one goes in and does the test, receives a numerical score. Rider from team two does the same test on the same horse and receives a score. The team with the higher score gets a point. At the end of the day, the team with the most “wins” or “points” wins the show. There’s a Varsity Equestrian Championships…I don’t know much about them or qualifying for them since my team doesn’t do NCAA.</p>

<p>In IHSA, all the teams in a specific region (the country is split in different zones, which is then split into different regions) will compete all together at the shows. There are all different levels. There’s walk-trot, walk-trot-canter (both beginner and advanced), novice, intermediate, and open. Classes are run more like a regular hunter/eq show. Regular flat classes where everyone in the class goes in at the same time and competes against each other and regular over/fences classes where everyone is judged against each other. Walk-trot and walk-trot-canter only have flat classes, novice, intermediate, and open all have both jumping classes and flat classes. Novice fences are about 2’3"-2’6"ish, intermediate 2’6"-2’9"ish, and open 2’9-3’ but it really varies based on the show and the zone and the barn and how high the donated horses can jump. Generally you’ll really only see the jumps “up to height” at zone finals and national finals. In IHSA, you can ride for the team and as an individual. </p>

<p>The coach will choose a “point rider” for each class - one for walk-trot-, one for w-t-c, one for novice flat, one for novice fences, etc. The points that rider earns go towards the team totals for the day. First place gets 7, second gets 5, third gets 4, fourth gets 3, fifth gets 2, and sixth gets 1. Riders can also compete individually - so even though only eight riders are getting points for the team, other riders can be competing at the show just as individuals. Riders are placed in a division by their coach and by placement forms when they first join the team. When you compete, you are competing to qualify individually for Regional Finals. In order to qualify for Regionals in your class, you have to earn 35 points. In every division except for open, your points carry over each year. So, for me, I have 5 points in novice flat so when I start showing again in the fall, I’ll be working towards getting 30 more points to point out. In open, you need 28 points to qualify for Regionals and your points start over every year because in open there’s no division to point out into. If you qualify for Regionals, you’ll go to Regionals and compete against the other riders in your region who qualified and the top placing riders at Regionals (in my region it’s the top two) qualify for Zone Finals. At Zone Finals, the top placing riders (again, in my zone it’s top two) qualify to go on to Nationals as an individual. </p>

<p>Team wise, your team will earn points all year at the regular shows through point riders. At the end of the regular season, the team in your region with the highest total number of points will be declared Regional Champion and that qualifies them for Zones as a team. At Zones there are separate classes for team riders and individual riders and the riders your coach chooses to ride in the team classes will be competing against the riders from all the other teams in your zone that got the regional championships. Then at the end of Zones, the top placing teams (in my zone it’s top two…there are others where it’s one or three, I think) go on to Nationals as a team.</p>

<p>To do NCAA, you pretty much need to be showing in the 3’6 or higher. Kids are definitely getting recruited more and more and it’s becoming harder to get on teams. On a recent discussion on another forum I go on, someone mentioned that when they talked to the coach at an NCAA school, the coach told her that she could try out if she wanted but she wouldn’t make it because they’d be filling the empty team slots with recruits. NCAA will also have more commitment such as team workouts. But the bonus to NCAA is that the school generally pays. My team is varsity at my school (even though we compete IHSA) so the school pays for almost everything - shows, transportation, food at shows, hotel if we have to stay overnight, most of the care of the horses. We pay a lesson fee each semester…last year it was 300 in the fall and 150 in the spring, which isn’t bad at all for the horse world.</p>

<p>IHSA is going to depend. There probably isn’t as much commitment, though it really depends on the specific team. Generally you’re going to paying for shows and lessons and everything. </p>

<p>Quality of horses is really going to vary from school to school. Some IHSA schools have amazing facilities and horses, some ride at local barns and just ride the lesson horses. Some NCAA schools have really nice horses, some don’t. It really depends on the specific school and program.</p>

<p>I’m thinking along the same line as Singersmom. School can just not be fun for a kid with LDs who is not being taught to their brain type. Have you read any of the Mel Levine books? I have a brother with 4 LD kids who did not enjoy school or do well until they were older and found a wonderful specialist who got them properly diagnosed and into schools that worked for them. The oldest is headed for Vanderbilt and in 8th grade it didn’t look like any college would be in the picture.</p>

<p>Hello!</p>

<p>I have heard good things about the homeschool online program at BYU; my question about the Middle College is that it would lead to a GED, right? I would VISIT the Middle College and see what it is like, exactly. Where I live, it is a remedial night school for adults who are preparing for the GED, held at the community college but does not award any college credits. A high schooler would be the youngest, and night classes of 3 or 4 hours of what is basically a study hall could be boring. They study for the GED test. I am not saying this is a bad program and it may be different in California, but at least take a peek at said Middle College when it is in session.</p>

<p>I like the horse therapy and home school. One of my fondest memories of high school was the semester I had to stay home due to a broken leg (complications). I had homebound lessons and could read all day, whatever I wanted. I completed a semester’s worth of work during the last week of the semester. It was an enriching, empowering time as a 16 yr old.</p>

<p>Another issue is that our high schools are filled with horrid bullying problems, mean girls, and sundry other problems that not every child wants to navigate. My D is an aide for the special ed program and was able to find her niche this way. If your D does not like girls her age, then I can appreciate her wanting to avoid going to school with them.
Another thought would be an animal husbandry program or a ferrier program, at the community college and 4 yr college levels.</p>

<p>Best wishes.</p>

<p>Middle College in my part of California is an alternative high school at community college for eleventh and twelfth graders. The students have some classes together (English, I think, and some others) and take some community college classes to complete their high school requirements. I’ve met a couple Middle College students; they seemed bright and hardworking.</p>

<p>I think that all this thinking about college is a little premature. I have 3 kids also, and sometimes this happens with the youngest, after watching the others go off. I would encourage your daughter to relax and focus a little more on the present, for a couple of years.</p>

<p>That said, and speaking of the present, it is important for certain kids to be in the right school, if there are options. Is it possible that some of this speculation about the future, and expressions of hatred about school, reflect anxiety about the coming change in schools? Going from a non-traditional private to a traditional public is a big transition, and I wonder if her focus on college is somehow an avoidance strategy or something. I would try to give her a lot of support for this change, maybe arrange for her to sit in on classes and talk with staff, maybe shadow a student and go to activities and lunch etc. Is there any way she can attend the school where friends from the private school are going? Or is there a smaller school where she could school-choice?</p>

<p>I have done a little homeschooling and two of my kids, who are involved in the arts, have also combined online courses with going to school. In fact, we convinced our school to join an online program so that now 25 students are taking online courses while at school. (There are drawbacks ot online courses for certain kids with learning issues, I think, but it depends: sometimes online courses are easier because everything is clearly laid out.)</p>

<p>Overall, I think there is no substitute for attending a school and being part of that community, in my opinion, and it is better if it is a school that is a good fit.</p>

<p>My youngest was evaluated in 3rd grade, and had a 20 point difference between verbal and performance, and “slow processing speed.” In fact, the evaluation itself took two days longer than usual! Because she appeared to be doing well in class, the school refused services. Some of the high school teachers accommodate her anyway. She has trouble with abstract readings, and is still quite slow to do anything, but is quite capable too.</p>

<p>So I can relate to the testing dilemma. On the one hand, noone at our school has had much success with special education services. We have worked with her at home. At the high school level, she is quite independent, but I do end up having long discussions with her about topics she is writing about, to help her organize her thoughts. She never uses anything that I say and always comes up with totally original material, so I do not feel I am a crutch so much as a sort of catalyst for her own process. Interactive learning is key for her, and I think it could be interaction with anyone, but at this point it is still with me mainly.</p>

<p>She also hates school and despite being an A student, has no desire to go to college. She resists testing, although I could convince her. With SAT’s and college ahead, there may be more reason for testing, but I have to emphasize here that many colleges are not at all good with accommodations. The expense is a big obstacle: our insurance will not pay for it.</p>

<p>Our daughter is deeply involved in dance, and is probably going to do that after high school. I think that the poster who described a seeming non-student who went back after 10 years and now has two masters’ degrees is a good one to listen to. There are so many paths in life now, that work. In place of traditional college, there are online programs, continuing ed programs, programs where you work on your own after a week of residence on campus, and state universities with flexible course-load requirements. I have decided to trust the future, as hard as it is to do.</p>

<p>I would give your daughter the message that there are many possibilities for the future, and that at her age, she should just wait until things become clearer, and enjoy high school and the opportunity to explore who she is. Planning ahead in the way she is doing , to me, reflects anxiety rather than maturity, but I do not know her. I don’t think it is healthy for most kids to even know what they want to do as college freshman, let alone at her age!</p>