<p>I'm faced with an unsual dilemna. Should I attend LSA Honors (OOS) or should I attend Williams College? I'm emotionally attached to U-M coz it was the first to admit me. Yet William's college's letter is very personalized and warm, and makes me feel guilty not attending given that I had pretty low stats and everyone in the admissions committee discusses candidates individually. </p>
<p>My goal is simply to get into as good of a grad school as I can for political science or international relations. Hence, I'm sure a BA from U-M is pretty much be equal to that of Williams given the same GPA. U-M's faculty is known for it's cutting-edge research in their fields; the political science department is very respected. Williams professors are paid to be nice and give the students the best possible experience. But if I go to Williams, what if I turn out to be a Candide? Yet if I go to U-M, what if I struggle to even maintain a 3.5, which is very possible simple given the sheer number of brilliant students; I might graduate hating the world.</p>
<p>So the question is, where would you, an average 17/18-year old like me, choose to go? Why? I expect comments to be in favor of U-M of course, but any details other than "great college town and awesome sports"?</p>
<p>You should not fear competition--there is no easy pass to a good grad school. If you are not a fan of bigtime sports and a lively college town, maybe UM is not for you.</p>
<p>Well, to me, sports is really no big deal. I don't mind it being part of the school culture, but I'm not gonna go crazy about it; Williams is pretty atheletic too, btw. As for fearing competition, I realize that that will exist everywhere; maybe I'll do better at U-M. Myabe I won't. To a high schooler with 0 college experience, that's impossible to say, I think.</p>
<p>That's an easy decision. The two schools are so different, you shouldn't have a hard time deciding. Williams is tiny, Michigan is huge. Williams is a LAC, Michigan is a research university. Williams is located in a sleepy little town in the middle of nowhere. Michigan is located in a spirited college town next to a major city. I could go on, but I think you get the picture. In short, very few people could be equally happy in both and it is easy for you to figure out which one is the better fit.</p>
<p>BUT THE THING IS: I don't really care that much about big v. small environment. We all say William is small, right? 2000 students, 500 per class. That's the size of my high school. But it's not like I even know everyone in my senior class, much less the whole school--- my high school is considered big. I'm most concerned about where I can get the better education, which is such a vague idea given that I never been to any college, lol. To me, as long as I have a roof over my head and enough unrotten food to eat, the campus is really not that big of a deal.</p>
<p>LSA honors is probably as personalized as Williams. You get the smaller feel within the honors college because it's only about 500 people and the classes are small.</p>
<p>I'd say go to U of M. Like they always say, "you can make a big university small, but you can't make a small university big." I think there will just be more to do at U-M and the education is great.</p>
<p>As Alexandre says, these two institutions are so different that you should have no problem evaluating the differences. In this case, size matters. U-M is huge -- and that brings with it both problems and benefits. At U-M, you need to be a self-starter. Nobody is going to hold your hand. It's bureaucratic - you need to be willing to push through that. Access to your professors will be possible - but you are going to have to seek them out; they're not going to come looking for you. Faculty's first priority at U-M is research and PhD students, not undergrads. U-M's size also has benefits -- big sports, lots of events, lots of research projects, the Institute for Social Research (since you're interested in political science), nationally recognized faculty, and more of everything. Michigan is in the midwest - so it's got that midwest, nice people thing going for it. At Williams, you'll have easier access to your profs and your profs will be focused on teaching undergrads, not on research. I'd say the average student is going to be brighter. Williams is east coast - and that means snob appeal, proximity to DC, Boston, and New York. Williams has the rep for being among the "preppiest" of the LACs. Williams is more prestigious, but only a small percentage of people in the US have ever heard of it. You can go anywhere from either school. It's up to you to decide which is the best fit.</p>
<p>I agree with everything Snorky said except the bit about prestige. Michigan and Williams are about equal when it comes to prestige (in academic circles of course, since Williams is not really known elsewhere).</p>
<p>Snorky and Alexandre still seem to be looking over the whole honors college thing in saying that "professors will need to be sought out, they're not going to come looking for you." Some honors students only take one class in honors per semester, but most take over half of their courses in honors or honors-sized classes. You probably won't have to seek out professors any more than you would have to at Williams.</p>
<p>I don't know, I kind of feel like people here are slagging on Williams. My impression is that, rightly or wrongly, undergrad at Williams is a little MORE prestigious. Whether that's a fair assessment or not, that's sort of the feeling I always got on the East Coast.</p>
<p>We'd love to have you at Michigan, for sure--but Williams is alluring.</p>
<p>I don't envy you your choice. Despite what others say, however, i think you COULD be happy at either place. Sure, they may offer somewhat different environments, but many students are adaptable and can find a way to fit in to more than one place.</p>
<p>Hoedown, there is no doubt that in most East Coaster's minds, Williams is more prestigious than Michigan. Williams, Amherst and Swarthmore are revered in the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic regions. I'd say that Williams is more prestigious than Duke or Michigan or Chicago or even possibly Stanford in the eyes of East Coasters. But then again, Michigan is more prestigious than Williams in the Midwest and in the West Coast. But at the highest level, elite graduate school adcoms and exclusive corporate recruiters tend to give them roughly equal weight.</p>
<p>Okay, I usually like your posts, chibear but I don't agree here.</p>
<p>Do NOT come to U of M based upon the honors college. The general consensus in my honors class was that honors was the biggest sham they had encountered at U-M. Come here for the really great classes, awesome people, diversity of activities and opinions and the inspiring faculty.</p>
<p>I'd say to go to Williams simply because you mentioned that you're considering poli sci. Is that a hard-set decision? If not, then you have a tough choice.</p>
<p>Political science has caused so much grief and frustration for so many honors kids because of problems the department refuses to acknowledge. GSI's are given far too much control in grading, which causes a very high amount of unfairness in determining final grades. Friends describe poli sci grading as "completely arbitrary" to the more often-used "bull*****." Poli Sci 111 is considered perhaps the worst intro class on campus. One of the big problems in majoring in political science anywhere is that there will always be inherent bias in grading. Classes also vary wildly in quality. LOL, most of my friends who started as poli sci switched to history or concentrations such as Middle Eastern or Asian studies (both of which are fantastic here).</p>
<p>I know Williams ranked very high in getting kids into professional schools from that 2003 WSJ survey. For grad school, top LAC's hold advantages such as having established relationships with top grad schools and a slight perception advantage, admittedly. You may also have an easier time getting to know professors and doing research with them, as poli sci professors here deal with undergrads as little as possible. I would suggest you visit both colleges. A number of honors kids turned down Williams because they said it makes you feel isolated to the point of being suicidal due to location and size. I only even suggest visiting because you mentioned a strong interest in poli sci and it's a mixed bag for undergrad poli sci. Best of luck.</p>
<p>I am not so sure I would recommend Williams over Michigan from an academic point of view if one were intent on majoring in Political Science. I agree that Williams will probably offer a more intimate experience and more faculty contact at the Freshman level, but recommending Williams over Michigan on academic grounds for Poli-Sci majors would be like recommending Michigan over MIT on academic grounds for Biology majors. The Poli-Sci faculty at Michigan is, as you put it so well, "drool-worthy".</p>
<p>Alright, I see someone is getting a little defensive. :-)</p>
<p>It makes sense to choose MIT bio over Michigan bio for so many reasons but the main reason is that that great faculty actually teaches the undergrad classes. Eric Lander and Robert Weinberg teach intro bio. The faculty does not feel as if they are demeaning themselves to teach undergraduates. MIT bio would have probably been better for undergrad but not significantly if the professors were simply hiding out in labs.</p>
<p>You know this too, Alexandre, that not only are high grades important for graduate school but research experience and letters of recommendation are extremely important. The Michigan poli sci faculty is pretty immaterial for most undergraduates because it's GSI's teaching most of the classes. The OP will have a much harder time accessing faculty and research because poli sci faculty here teach undergrads simply to keep their tenure. I've said that strength of faculty means nothing to undergrad unless the faculty really wants to get involved with them so many times on this board and I still maintain that.</p>
<p>I thought GSIs only lead discussions while professors actually lecture? And what makes honors the biggest sham? Do you not get intimate advisers as well as professor-guided senior thesis writing after you declare your concentration? And isn't there a weekly come together discussion for honors? </p>
<p>And yes, political science is a very firm determination; Ap gov has really been the only thing I'm good at. And I'm very passionate about world politics as my
goal is towards diplomacy.</p>
<p>What are the chances/accessibility of approaching a GSI and appealing one's grades?</p>