Hello,
I am a student applying from India, interested in studying mathematics and physics, and possibly go on into research. I’ve narrowed down my choices to:
To describe myself a bit further, I am rather introverted and spend a lot of time playing the piano.
What are your opinions on which place would be best for me? Thanks.
Either UMich RC or Williams. But since you want to go into research and thus you’ll go to grad school, I’d pick Williams, since that environment is one you won’t find anywhere else later on, and plan for grad school at UMichigan or another similar top research university so that you get to enjoy both environments (the reverse isn’t possible).
Congratulations! All are terrific schools. It’s a case where you will not make a regrettable choice based on academics. They are different schools but similarly excellent. I suggest choosing based on fit, which you are doing.
Michigan is in a large town/small city. The campus and surrounding area do have an urban feel, and there are a couple of streets just off campus where there are lots of restaurants, shops, etc. It’s a nice community. Obviously a large school. Most students live off campus after freshman year, often in houses and apartments in surrounding neighborhoods. It is a large research university. It did strike me as a nice place to live for four years.
Williams is a very small LAC in a small town not really close to much else. It’s a wonderful small community with amazing students. The surrounding mountains are beautiful, and there are lots of outdoor things to do. The school has a very low professor:student ratio, and students get a tremendous amount of attention from professors and the school in general. Professors will be much more about teaching than research (more so than the faculty at Michigan and UCLA). You’ll have more access to professors than at Michigan where teaching assistants will play a large role in teaching introductory classes. There will be fewer full labs etc. but students are very well prepared to go on to grad school. It’s a place where you’ll have a short walk over across a beautiful campus to a nice building to play piano. (And it will probably be good that it’s a short walk because it will often be very cold.)
I agree with MYOS that the first two sound like the best choice for you. UCLA is certainly a similarly excellent school. The campus is stunning and so is the Southern California weather. There are many introverts there, and I’m sure the vast majority love the school, but I think of it as a very social place, with lots of students living up a hill at one end of campus. I would also think it might be the place that’s hardest to get into classes you want to take (because of state budget issues). Now, if UCLA is the top choice in your mind, ignore my advice. The weather is way nicer at UCLA, and the school is great. You will be best off if you go where YOU will love most. I’m just basing my comments on the brief bit of info about yourself; you know way more. Good luck!
From India and being an introvert all three are tremendous schools.
Personally I would choose UCLA for the access the diversity of la and the weather.
I’d recommend Williams…if you are introverted I think the smaller environment of a LAC might work well. All excellent choices though.
Sorry, I’m confused about the title and your statement:
Have you been accepted for admission for those three schools?
OR
Are you beginning to apply?
Otherwise, the other posters are giving good advice.
Sorry, what I meant to say is I have been accepted at these schools and am deciding which offer to accept.
Thank you for your replies!
One thing I wanted to know about Williams - is it likely that many of the students will be similar in interests and ambitions, unlike UMich or UCLA?
Also, would the UMich RC provide a smaller LAC-like environment? And is it geared towards arts and social science students?
I’d pick Williams. Even with the RC, UMichigan is s big school.
I am kind of deciding between UMich or Williams. I understand UCLA is a good school with good weather (suited to Indians) plus a large Asian population in a great city though I have never visited. My concerns are that I may feel lost in a big university and I may not be able to get the classes that I would want. Also, I believe that most classes are very large and mostly taught by TAs, although UCLA seems to be ranked pretty high for Mathematics. I also read that a lot of students are from California itself, so most would go home over the weekend, which does not sound good.
UMich is also a large school though the RC may make it feel smaller, I hope. Weather is cold but that may not be bad since it would be different from India and some snow would be a welcome change! It seems less racially diverse but that doesn’t worry me too much since I can get along with most people, as long as they are friendly and welcoming.
Most of the answers seem to suggest Williams, and I do tend to agree that it might be a better fit for me. The biggest concern is that almost no one in my country has heard of Williams! So, going back to my country may not give me “a foot in the door” simply because of no name recognition. This may be of less importance if I decide to stay back in the US, but the current environment as I read in the newspapers, may make it difficult…I don’t know.
I’m differing in opinion from the other posters. I think UMich is a great choice. I’m from the midwest and I don’t think you should shy away from a large school. There will be much opportunity for learning and exploration at a large school. If you’re more introverted, you may be more able to find your space and time to decompress after action packed days with classmates. A larger university will have a diverse population (ethnicallly, culturally, etc). And you will be sure to find like minded students and also students who are different than you.
I’m a parent and I’ve visited many universities and colleges (Midwest, East Coast, South) with my children. Both ended up at schools that were a great fit for each of them.
Your concern about name recognition of your school in your home country is a valid one. There will be ambitious students at any of the schools you are considering…
^ this student wants a small school, hence the RC.
Williams will get you access to internship opportunities and their alumni network, which will be turned into OPT at a big name company (if you wish) or a top grad school. So, what your country will know is your grad school’s or employer’s name, even if they don’t know Williams. The resources at Williams are all focused on undergrads and they have lots of money to make sure everyone achieved what they set our to do at the highest possible level. It’s like having a superpower armur. 
I agree with all the above comments and think you are thinking about the right things. Neither Michigan nor Williams would be a wrong choice, just a matter of tradeoffs. I do think the international name recognition is something to consider, though it doesn’t have to be decisive.
There is a huge difference between US-based rankings and international rankings. US ones tend to focus on student academic credentials, selectivity, freshman retention, graduation rates, outcomes, etc. International rankings are very research based. Faculty at large research universities often focus on research; faculty at LACs focus more on teaching. So the international criteria really work against US LACs, which can matter if a student is planning to work primarily or solely outside the US, even though a student MAY well get a deeper education at an LAC (it can depend on the student).
In the end, I’d advise weighting these different factors, but really choose where you want to be. As suggested, Williams is a great school with great students, faculty, and staff. It’s often ranked the #1 LAC in the whole US. You’ll get a great education, have access to great resources, and will do well. It’s a great little community, and you’ll probably be on campus the whole time or almost so. As suggested, Michigan is much larger but can feel smaller, both because of the RC and because students usually belong to friendship networks and student groups (Greek, professional/departmental, music, outdoors, etc., etc.) that make a large school much smaller. Ann Arbor is a nice small city, and there are nice, fun areas around campus. You’d probably live in an apartment or house after the first year or two.
So make your choice and don’t look back. You’ll have made a good one. Good luck!
“This may be of less importance if I decide to stay back in the US”
Unfortunately, this may or may not be something that is up to you to decide. My husband originally came here on an H1b visa, so I’m familiar with the process and its not something you should count on.
It may be very challenging for you to find a US employer who is willing to go through the paperwork, hassle, time and expense to hire a non-US citizen. It is becoming more and more difficult to get visas that used to be fairly commonplace, like H1Bs, so employers are less willing to undertake the expense and risk.
Not to say it’s impossible, but please don’t base your decision on being able to stay and work in the US because there’s a fairly substantial chance that may not be possible. Make your decision on college assuming you will need to find work in your home country so if that happens you’re not at a disadvantage.
I think Williams would be your best choice with the caveat that you aren’t so advanced mathematically that you might run out of courses at Williams? Are you already doing math like Real Analysis?
I like Williams also for you being an introvert because I think it’ll help you come out of your shell. At Mich and UCLA you’d be able to hide/blend in but at Williams you’re going to get involved more especially in your lectures where the Instructors will be expecting you to contribute in class.
It sounds like on fit alone, Williams is the best choice.
Are Indians aware of US liberal arts colleges? It would be a shame if you went to the #1 LAC but your resume back home was ignored because nobody had heard of the school.
I think they should be aware of the incredible quality of undergraduate education that goes on at LACs, but wanting that doesn’t make it so. You may have to sell Williams to Indian hirers who are not familiar with it.
But if you were to stay in the States to work or to go to grad school, then there would be no problem with recognition – anyone who knows anything about colleges here knows how great Williams is.
I think your second-best fit is with Michigan. That makes UCLA last; how lucky you are to have UCLA as your third option.
The way it works for internationals is that the LAC offers exceptional, personalized support and they go from Bachelor’s to OPT (27 months of paid work without a need for a visa) or grad school directly (paid). Sometimes, OPT is followed by grad school too.
Both with OPT and grad school, the international country recognizes the “brand” of the company or of the grad school.
So, it doesn’t matter whether Williams in known in India - and in the US, anyone who knows anything at all will know that Williams is the Harvard of LACs (using a shortcut here :p)
Please, wherever you do end up deciding to study, do not for one second think about staying here for longer than your college years plus OPT. You need to be able to look the consular officer who interviews you for your student visa in the eye, and clearly articulate how studying in the US will help you find a good job when you return home. If the visa officer suspects at all that you might possibly have immigration intent, you will not get that student visa.
UCLA is not a commuter school, although students will move off campus after the first few years. While the majority of students will be from California - California is very large and it would be impractical for most of them to go home on the weekends! Also, just because students come from California - that does not mean it isn’t a very diverse student body. Know that the state of California is the sixth largest economy in the world.
Michigan is smaller than California and, as at most public state universities, the majority of students at Univ. of Michigan will be from Michigan. However, I would not let that be a defining factor in your decision making.
I am really thankful to all of you for taking time off to reply and help me make a decision. After reading through all the excellent and well meaning advice, I have decided to enrol at University of Michigan. It was really a tough choice between Williams and Michigan, but I realised that I need to get out of my comfort zone and shed my ‘introvertness’ by going to a larger University.
Thank you all once again and GO BLUE!
But there is one other problem, and although I have made a decision…I am waitlisted at a few others which I had accepted earlier in my confusion. So waitlisted also at Vanderbilt, UChicago, Cornell, Brown and Carnegie Mellon…plus have a conditional admit at Imperial College of Science and Technology, London (need ridiculously high marks in math and physics - I dare say I can meet them). Is it worth waiting to get off the wait list on any of them or should I just refuse and let others get a chance in all fairness. Any suggestions?