I was lucky to be admitted into all of these schools, but I need help choosing. Financial aid from all of these schools is around the same (except Brown, which is 10k a year more). I’m planning to either major in political science or English, and definitely plan to go to law school or grad school in English. Personally, location is a factor for me, but not a big one, as I feel like I would enjoy both rural and city environments. I definitely like Brown’s open curriculum, but I’m fine with some course restrictions as to give me some guidance. My other priorities are the quality of the departments (poli sci, English) and the internship opportunities, specifically with the government. I also don’t consider myself a very fratty person.
Any suggestions/comments would be much appreciated!
I would rule Brown out because of the financial aspect.
Dartmouth and Amherst are both LACs (Dartmouth has some graduate programs but it isn’t a full fledged university).
Duke is a major research university.
Visit all 3 schools and decide based on fit.
Duke and Dartmouth have identical average LSAT scores (according to data from college confidential). However, Duke was one spot ahead on the Wall Street Journal’s ranking of “feeder schools” published in 2006. I’m not aware of a similar ranking that has been published since that one.
Dartmouth has been faced with some serious problems in the recent past. Fewer applications, lower rankings etc.
I would not necessarily recommend it at the moment although it has always had a reputation for being a very good school at the undergraduate level.
Personally, I’m not a fan of LACs. They are too homogenous for my taste and I find them limiting. I did apply to Amherst and Pomona when I was in high school but I chose to attend a university instead.
All 4 of these schools are terrific. Depending on your financial situation, I probably would not pay more for Brown than the other three.
First, you have to decide what atmosphere you would best enjoy. Amherst is small and tight-knit. There are no fraternities, although there still are parties on the weekends. Some people love that close sense of community, some find it too small.
As far as internships go, each of these schools will have many, but they are easier to get at Amherst because there are no grad students and all such opportunities necessarily go to undergrads.
All three would provide great preparation for law school.
Amherst’s English department has been renowned ever since Robert Frost taught there, and it is a top-10 feeder school per capita for PhDs in English and Humanities. Amherst typically produces the same number of Fulbright Scholars as Duke and Dartmouth, despite being one third their size. Amherst also runs the Folger Shakespeare Library in Washington DC, the largest institute in the world for studying the Bard. A
One last thing: Nerdy Chica said that LACs are too homogeneous for her, but in fact, Amherst has a more diverse student body than Duke, both in terms of economic diversity and racial diversity, for whatever that is worth. And I would not listen to her suggestion that Dartmouth is “facing serious problems.” Dartmouth is doing just fine.
Go with your gut feeling. All of these choices are good choices.
I’d choose between Amherst, Duke, and Dartmouth. I love Brown (alum) but the extra $10k would eliminate it. You could see if Brown will up their $ offer, but if not I’d narrow it to the other three excellent schools.
Not that you said it mattered but going by your username it seems you have some interest in sports and you’ll find a more rah!rah! atmosphere at Duke - not just in basketball but they have a strong overall sports program. Of course Men’s Basketball is huge and something like that does add to the college experience.
44 awards in a school of 1850 students is a much, much larger percentage than 69 awards from a school of 6500 students. Roughly three times higher, in fact. Amherst supports a larger percentage of its students through the Fulbright process. To put it bluntly, a graduating Amherst student is three times more likely to get a Fulbright than is a graduating Duke student.
In the future, please do more research before making a claim.
And I don’t understand why you feel the need to badmouth other schools. What did Dartmouth ever do to you? Duke is a great university - it can stand on its own.
I have nothing against Dartmouth. I just don’t believe in lying to make people happy. It is widely acknowledged that Dartmouth is experiencing turmoil. Dartmouth alums are clearly unhappy about the direction the college is going in. These are the facts.
I don’t maintain that Penn is on the decline. I don’t say that about Chicago or Stanford or even Amherst. If I had an agenda, why would I target Dartmouth specifically? Duke has a much larger overlap with research universities like Penn and Chicago…
Yes. The number of applicants vis a vis the total number of student reflects what, exactly? (hint - it has something to do with close relationships between students and professors/advisors). I’m not trying to be difficult. The fact remains that Amherst grads are three times more likely to have a Fulbright than Duke grads. That’s one of the advantages of an elite LAC like Amherst or Williams. The school takes more of an interest in each student, guides them to opportunities and affirmatively helps take advantage of them. Fulbrights are just a proxy for that process, but it applies equally to internships, grad school admissions, and so forth.
As to the other point - as I understand it, Dartmouth’s admissions dropped for a short time after an article was published about a fraternity hazing there. I think applications have rebounded since then.
Just between you and me, I would choose Duke over Dartmouth too, for several reasons most of which are personal to me concerning social atmosphere and location. But I would never say that Dartmouth’s reputation is on the decline, because it really isn’t.
These four schools are very close peers in terms of academic quality, though they are quite different from one another.
If Brown would cost five figures more, I would consider eliminating it… unless it excels in other areas of fit. Here’s how I see their relative strengths and weaknesses:
Duke
Strength: Biggest rep internationally and probably the most name recognition in the US.
Weakness: Because there are more grads than undergrads, it is relatively less focused on the undergrad experience.
Amherst
Strength: Smallest classes.
Weakness: Least name recognition, especially outside the northeast.
Brown
Strength: Reputedly very happy students.
Weakness: Costs the most.
Dartmouth
Strength: Probably the most emphasis on undergraduates among the three universities (but not as much as Amherst obviously); greatest access to outdoor activities.
Weakness: Greek-dominated social scene/drinking problems. (which some might prefer, but…).
I think you should visit them and decide based on overall fit. Brown is already at a disadvantage due to $$$.
Dartmouth has always been known for its undergraduate teaching. It’s been ranked number for undergraduate teaching for 5 out of the last 6 years. The Dartmouth alumni network is exceptionally strong in terms of both donation size and total percentage of alumni donating every year. Dartmouth has the best study abroad program in the ivy league due to the D-Plan (which allows you to take terms off during the fall, winter, or spring of your sophomore/junior year for internships/studying abroad), an extremely high quality of loving (#8 according to the Princeton Review), and has an extremely open Greek system.
At Dartmouth, all students can go to any of the fraternities during the Wednesdays/the weekend whereas at other schools like Duke, the greek system is exclusive and based on who you know. Dartmouth has an excellent government department. There are a bunch of alternative social scenes at Dartmouth for students who do not want to be apart of Greek life.
For international relations, Dartmouth was #12 in 2014 whereas Duke was #25 according to Foreign Policy magazine. The government major is the second most popular major and Dartmouth regularly sends students to work at various agencies within the government, including the CIA and state department. Finally, Dartmouth is very diverse (about half the students are people of color, and half receive some sort of financial aid).
The decline that some users have mentioned on here are small when given context and put in absolute numbers. Having an admissions rate of 5% or 10% doesn’t really mean much on the aggregate level. Graduate school rankings also do not reflect Dartmouth, since it is primarily an undergraduate institution. Duke has 15,000 students total. 6,600 are undergraduates, so the rest are grad students. Dartmouth has 6,300 students total. 4,400 are undergraduates.
“Is this letter an example of the College trying to puff up its stats by encouraging alumni to provide donations, however small, so that we can improve our alumni giving percentage — a component of the U.S. News ranking? It hardly seems fairplay to do so by giving alums $10 in cash money and then asking that they turn around and donate it to Dartmouth (and take a tax deduction without having paid income tax in the first place), and also tell them that an additional gift will be provided to the College if they do so.”
This feud over rep is silly I think. I do kind of blame the different ranking services and their methodologies.
Dartmouth and Brown are Ivy League
and Duke is probably the top school in the South – all have plenty of cachet, whether it be in a job interview or on a grad school app.
The bottom line is, there’s going to be very little difference in the quality of classroom instruction among Brown, Dartmouth and Duke. For what really matters academically, they are equals.
The differences that matter most are outside the classroom.
Now Amherst is going to be a bit different from B/D/D because of the usual LAC/U differences, but it too can raise its nose skyward: it is a top-five LAC in anyone’s book.
The OP ought to be deciding on fit, not on prestige/rep – they are all prestigious, excellent schools.
IMO, Amherst seems to be the perfect medium between what you’re looking for. It’s got strong programs, especially for what you’re interested in. You would have access both to the city of Amherst and to more rural areas for day trips. There are no frats, and you get an open curriculum. And while it is small, you also have access to the Five College Consortium, so you’d be able to make it feel larger, if you wanted to.
That being said, I agree that deciding based on prestige is silly – they’re all good schools. And if Brown is a contender, definitely request that your FA be reviewed. That’s not an unusual thing to do at all.
