<p>Our rising senior daughter is music geek, most particularly about choral music. She's not sure what she really wants to do with her life, career-wise, but music ed seems like a natural. (She plans to take a gap year, however, and could fall in love with something else in the time being!)</p>
<p>She is not terribly academic (3.6 GPA at a competitive suburban NJ high school), and is NOT a great test-taker (1590 SAT), but has decent extra-curriculars (sports, service orgs, etc., plus every music EC imaginable). She isn't picky about anything except the quality of the choral program -- we live in NJ but she would go anywhere, and she doesn't care about size. Won't need much if any financial aid. I WOULD like there to be some depth in other fields if she happens to wash out of music.</p>
<p>Anyway, we've looked at lots of choral programs -- Westminster, St. Olaf, Concordia, etc. -- but I'm not sure we've seen everything that we should. Anyone have any recommendations that might not have occurred to us? TIA.</p>
<p>The main choral fellow at Rutgers is excellent, a fine musician, conductor, and human being. He also conducts the Riverside Choral Society in NYC, and there are some joint performances in NYC venues (Verdi “Requiem” this past April in Alice Tully Hall at Lincoln Center). Music educations graduates out of the RU program have a 100% hire rate. Good luck to your daughter. As a NJ resident, you cannot beat the price.</p>
<p>Mim - was your daughter in NJ Allstate last year? I ask because my daughter thought the conductor (Z. Randall Stroope) was amazing. He’s the choral director at Rowan Univ in Glassboro. Small school, good teachers college, not just music. If she wasn’t in All State last year and wants to see what he can pull out of a huge group, have her go to YouTube and search NJ All State and look for the 11-16-08 entries. That’s the NJ PAC performance. “I am Not Yours” still makes me get teary.</p>
<p>When I read your subject line, my first thought was Westminster, which you’ve already seen. Don’t forget the association with Rider - useful if she decides music isn’t her thing. </p>
<p>I wonder how many students on the Rider campus participate in the choral groups at Westminster. Logistically, it would not be ideal and I’m not sure how many non-music majors make it into the chorus. The admission rate to Westminster is very high and I do not believe reflects the quality of the program. Will she work on audition material during the gap year? I know this will depend on if she decides to major in music. In some schools, admission is no easier for music ed as it is for performance. In others, the admission for music ed is not as competitive.</p>
<p>Normally I avoid blatant plugs, but because we’re test-optional, and have James Bagwell as the chair of the Music Program (he leads the Dessoff Choirs, but I believe he may be leaving that position to become the new music director of the Collegiate Chorale), you might want to look in to Bard College. It’s vocal study in a liberal arts context, leading to a BA, not a BM or BEd, but perhaps something of interest.</p>
<p>Cartera45 - I was referring to Rider as going the other way - Westminster student participating in Rider activities and classes. The OP said that her daughter might change her mind -in that case she wouldn’t be transferring schools, just registering for different classes. On the other hand, if you hadn’t decided that music was your life, I can’t see you being remotely content at Westminster. The complete immersion is exactly what appeals to my daughter.</p>
<p>If you are visiting St. Olaf, you might want to look at Lawrence University in Appleton, WI. They have a Conservatory and a College, which are both highly respected. They have at least 3 choirs, with most of the better Women in the Women’s choir (fairly typical because women outnumber the men).</p>
<p>Music Ed is through the Conservatory. As a College student, you can take music lessons and be in the Choir. Other than degree requirements, Lawrence doesn’t seem to differentiate much between the Conservatory and College students. In fact, there is a good percentage that are 5 year dual degree students.</p>
<p>Thanks for this incredibly helpful input. Yes, BeezMom, our daughter was at allstate and we are familiar with Stroope’s compositions tho I wasn’t aware that he was at Rowan. I’m familiar with that school too, through an old association with the Hollybush Festival which was there. I’ll have a new look at them.
I have to say that I’d dismissed Bard for her,N8Ma, as you’ve gotten so competitive! Also, I think of Bard as more orchestrally-focused. Not true? (Our daughter is a decent violinist, but it’s not her main thing.)
Dad attended WCC, and she goes to choral camp there every summer, so is very familiar with the school. As a result, probably doesn’t seem quite ‘exciting’ enough to be in the running.</p>
<p>I am not sure if the West Coast is an option for you, but Chapman has always had a strong choral program and for the right student,they can be very generous .</p>
<p>mim—I forgot to add. D had similar academic stats and (though she did not accept) Chapman had offered a substantial amount of aide. A fun plus for chorus students—they find plenty of professional work in the entertainment industry in So Cal. Chapman is very well connected and students find work singing at Disneyland, movie studios, visiting professional musical theatre etc.</p>
<p>I mentioned Bard because we do not require reporting of SAT scores. So someone with a GPA over 3.5 (with rigorous coursework in math, science, literature, social science, arts, and history) but not a great test-taker would do well to apply to our school. The SAT would be a poor predictor of success at our school, as it’s a reading and writing curriculum. And there have been other studies (UC did one) showing the SAT to be a poor predictor of success at college in general. </p>
<p>At Bard there is the conservatory, which teaches instruments only to undergraduates (granting a BM), the voice program being grad only, and then there is the music program, which is an academic unit separate from the conservatory. Within the music program, an individual could craft a BA music major that integrated several elements–say, both violin and vocal performance, or jazz and classical, or performance practice and musicology, etc. etc. But knowing so little about your specific situation we may well be inappropriate to your particular search. No hard feelings.</p>
<p>I guess I just have so much respect for James Bagwell (and he is indeed taking over the Collegiate Chorale) and I want to see his program continue to grow and flourish. Around six years ago he turned down a job at Westminster CC to build up Bard’s choral/vocal dept. So I think, as far as small liberal arts colleges go, we’re on the up and up vis a vis choral singing and performance.</p>
<p>Thank you so much, N8Ma – such helpful information.
I certainly concur that the SAT is a poor predictor of success in college or life in general! Our daughter is one of the most ‘effective’ people I know, but has never been able to fathom standardized testing. I have no qualms about her future, only about getting into the best possible college for her!
Thanks too for the explanation of the Bard program! I really appreciate your taking the time to clarify what’s happening there – I pore over all the websites but it’s sometimes a little hard to decode, much less to RETAIN.</p>
<p>Tagging onto Opera Dad’s suggestion of Lawrence, I was at a barbeque with a Lawrence VP major last weekend. People at the party were asking her what she was most looking forward to when she goes back to school in the fall. Without hesitation, she said, “The choir. It’s a big family.”</p>
<p>This student is an excellent musician and not focused on choral music, so that comment stuck with me. I also know that Lawrence doesn’t require standardized test scores. I’ve heard their choirs sing and they put out some awesome sounds.</p>
<p>Westminster has an incredible choral program with an almost 90 years of history. They have eight choirs in total. All students, vocal performance and music ed alike participate in a choir depending on their year of study. Some of the choirs such as the renowned 40 member “Westminster Choir”, are selected by audition. If your child is truly interested in music and loves the special experience and comradery of harmonizing in a group, this is the place to be. My D is a sophmore and was just selected into the “Westminster Choir” which will be performing at the Stoleto Festival and various venues throughout the country. I have to add, don’t let the name fool you into thinking that Westminster is just about Choirs. My D is a vocal performance major and is getting excellent individual training and a solid education in theory, diction, piano etc. Good luck to you and yours.</p>
<p>Ray -I’m happy to hear that it’s going so well for your daughter. Westminster’s on the top of my D’s list. She just loved the feeling of the campus and singing everywhere she turned.</p>
<p>Carterra, Long time…hope all is well with you and your D! To answer a question you posed, the Choirs at Westminster consist of only Westminster Choir students who are music majors (This includes all majors, Vocal Perf, Music Ed, Sacred Music and Piano). It does not have any Rider or MT major students. Rider does have it’s own Choir program and they performed on parent’s weekend freshman year.</p>
<p>Ray - all is well - thanks for the thought. Glad to hear your D is doing well. I was just thinking about the ice cream at The Bent Spoon the other day.</p>