<p>I've been researching CIM/Case Western. What are the pros and cons? I had just about decided on S visiting CIM and have CWRU as a backup or in addition to (just in case he decides against a cello performance degree). But upon further research, I went into sticker shock at the tuition for Case! It seems disproportionately higher than most. I must be misunderstanding something here.</p>
<p>Once again, thanks in advance for your help!</p>
<p>Just for the record, Case's cost are in line with other top colleges and universities. I don't know a lot about Case other than it is an excellent school. But you will find costs to be similar to some of these other schools with great cello programs and excellent academics - Oberlin, Northwestern, Rochester/Eastman, JHU/ Peabody</p>
<p>Some numbers to back up what shennie said:</p>
<p>CIM - Tuition/Fees $30,990, Room/Board $9,938 - Total $40,928
Peabody - Tuition/Fees $32,460, Room/Board $9,900 - Total $42,360
Eastman - Tuition/Fees $32,626, Room/Board $10,600 - Total $43,226
CWRU - Tuition/Fees $33,908, Room/Board $9,938 - Total $43,846
Oberlin - Tuition/Fees $36,282, Room/Board $9,280 - Total $45,562
Rochester - Tuition/Fees $35,190, Room/Board $10,640 - Total $45,830
Northwestern - Tuition/Fees $35,429, Room/Board $10,776 - Total $46,215
JHU - Tuition/Fees $36,400, Room/Board $11,096 - Total $47,496</p>
<p>This leaves out books, personal expenses and travel and the possibility that the OP's son may be able to commute to Northwestern. It would appear that CIM is on the lower end of the conservatories and CWRU is on the lower end of the colleges/universities. </p>
<p>Another consideration is the availability of merit aid at each school. I know Oberlin offers a decent amount of merit aid and Peabody has the reputation for not offering much. I do not know about the others.</p>
<p>Case is very generous with merit awards in general.</p>
<p>Students who do the Case/CIM joint program generally matriculate at CIM and pay a $2300 per year dual major fee, bringing the total close to the CWRU number. In that event, the OP would be more concerned with merit awards from CIM than from CWRU.</p>
<p>Thanks for the info. These costs are just overwhelming to me. Now I see why parents push their offspring to attend the local state school. Ours wants no part of that. Even our high school admin./college counselor does not speak highly of U. of I. for music (it's otherwise a great school). I know there are other local choices to consider.</p>
<p>None of this is getting any easier!!</p>
<p>I think CIM is a great school, Rudysmom, and it is one of four my S applied to. Of the 3 he was admitted to, they gave him the least money ($10 - 4 years ago.) When S opted to attend Juilliard, the CIM teacher admitted that CIM can't keep up with some of the other schools in terms of merit aid. (S didn't apply to Case, so I can't speak to that.)</p>
<p>You're still early enough in your search that you can include a range of schools, both ability-wise and cost-wise. We would have had a tough decision had Juilliard come out most expensive of the 3 schools (the other was CCM) - however, to our surprise and delight, Juilliard ended up cheapest after merit. My message is, don't rule out a school simply because of the sticker price. After need-based and merit-based aid are in, the results might surprise you. </p>
<p>You just have to ALSO make sure the list includes schools that are a bit more realistic.</p>
<p>Traditional wisdom says Reach / Match / Safety. And some folks always point out that the safety needs to be a financial safety as well. I would take it a step further, and say that if money is a concern, try to find schools at all levels where your kid has a better chance of getting merit. (Or that meets a higher percentage of need, if you qualify for aid.)</p>
<p>When my youngest was beginning her search, someone (CC's Carolyn) gave me some tips -- To increase chances of both acceptance and merit, we needed to find not only what schools would meet my D's needs, but to find schools where my D would fulfill a need of the school as well. We did this not just for violin, but for a few other attributes she has. (Namely foreign language ability and international experience.) So she was able to present herself not only as being very interested in (and knowledgable about) their programs, but also let them know she would be an asset to them in some way. I believe this made the difference in the offers she received.</p>
<p>How to find out what a school might be interested in?</p>
<p>First, visit. Pay attention to how they respond when they find out there is a prospective musician in the building! Things D heard: "The music budget is limited, so tends to go to the more obscure instruments" (Interpretation: We have all the violinists we really need.) Schools that offered her money invited her back to scholarship auditions, emailed her, and made it a point to talk to us parents about how well they thought D would fit in there. Not too many schools will admit that their music program is struggling. But if you find a great teacher at a school who's dept is struggling, there may very well be money attached! </p>
<p>If you are looking at non-conservatory schools, scour their websites for answers to these: Are they building new music buildings or auditoriums? Are they starting new programs? Do you see music plastered across the front page of their website? Are they applying for grants associated with music? Does their school newspaper write about music?</p>
<p>These same things (grants, building projects, press releases) about other areas might also show you other possibilities for selling yourself to the school. Sports? Other talents? Academic abilities or interests? ECs?</p>
<p>D found one school that was announcing that they were bringing a German novelist over for a year to teach about German novels. We thought, I bet they are going to be looking for students to sit in that class, and they will be interested in the fact that D is fluent in German, and wants to study things like this. That school didn't have music scholarships, but offered her another merit award instead.</p>
<p>And the REALLY scary thing is, I haven't even hit the financial aid forums yet! </p>
<p>Then I find out this afternoon that S only has 2 foreign language credits (I know, I should've known this) but he was determined to "pave his own way" all along; said his counselor agreed he wouldn't need more. Now, even after all my suggestions in the past, I see where a lot of schools require 3 foreign language credits. IU was on the top of our list which req. 3.
He took French and really hated it. His schedule is set for next year, his Jr. year & he's sure he would fail if he took a French 3 his Sr. year. Oh brother... (I see now why I only had 1 child.)</p>
<p>I'm rambling. sorry, but thanks for all this wonderful insight!</p>
<p>The costs are indeed staggering. But the other posters made the points about merit aid. There can be some fairly decent and occaisionally hefty packages based on audition, grades, test scores/class rank. Do as much research as possible beforehand. At some schools, any performing scholarship offsets the possibility of merit aid based on scholastics. This is really very school policy specific, so read, call, and do your homework. </p>
<p>Take advantage of any local scholarship opportunity that is available and spend some time looking at fastweb or other sites for music specific scholarships. Also, there are a lot of scholarships out there for "B" students.
Yes, it takes time to look them up, but if you don't know they're available, then you can't apply. Be selective... apply for those that require the least effort so as not to cut into audition prep, or those where you have your best shot.</p>
<p>Small local competitons are also a way to secure some additional bucks. In an active music locality, there are many small competitions and awards offered by chamber societies, local music societies, local and regional orchestras. In many cases you can use (or expand) the college audition
repetoire for these competitions. </p>
<p>Both son & daughter got few a thousand each from our local high school; from their colleges, son started with 1/2 tuition performance scholarship, increased to about 3/5ths, and ended the last two years with free ride tuition. Daughter applied to a local organization, (never thought she'd win) and ended up with $10k over two years, plus an additional grade/essay based scholarship from her college in addition to the merit grants they gave her. Her tuition was pretty much covered by her merit awards outside and institutionally.</p>
<p>Neither of my kids were top of their classes in high school. Son was 3.8, in top 10%, daughter at 3.6, in top 20%.</p>
<p>binx had a great point. Try and fill a niche at the school, and money may well be forthcoming. My daughter had a strange major... animal care. Not pre-vet, vet tech, or vet-assistant, but a care based program for companion animals. At the two schools she applied to, her aid package was remarkably similar in terms of merit aid, and one was public, one private. Very simply, because of her history, both schools wanted her.</p>
<p>CIM is a great place, my son has it on his grad school shortlist. Don't overlook DePauw for music. It's a tad less expensive than those on BassDad's list, but only one cello faculty member. One of my son's former quartet partners is there for violin and is extremely happy. He could have gotten in just about anywhere for performance. Have you looked at other state schools besides
U of I? Use the search function in this link for your Illinois options. <a href="http://www.stringsmagazine.com/search/msd/default.aspx%5B/url%5D">http://www.stringsmagazine.com/search/msd/default.aspx</a></p>
<p>We will search for other IL schools but I'm sort of behind my S. on this one; we're not originally from the Midwest so we don't feel a strong attachment to IL schools. I'm all for him wanting to branch out or travel. But $$ WILL be the determining factor.</p>
<p>And since my S's HS orchestra instructor never reciprocates in any form, I will now have to resort to the dep't. head to seek out info regarding what school scholarships are offered. On the other hand, S's band director is very helpful (S. plays horn and trumpet) but that's a different music category/department. He might even feel he'd be stepping on toes. But I can't really worry about that.</p>
<p>The small local competitions is a good idea that we had not looked into. Now the S's pt. job will become a hindrance. However, he is putting 1/2 into a college savings accn't. </p>
<p>He is currently carrying an unweighted 3.8 GPA but is only in the top 40% of his class of 650 (not exactly spectacular or dazzling). </p>
<p>And as far as finding a niche, I can't quite put a label on anything other than ALL of his teachers (as far back as elem. school) praise his leadership abilities. He's sort of a natural (where as his father and I are not). BUT, other than drum major for marching band, and being a very active leader in each class, there's no other "talent" or niche. He's in negotiation with his middle school orchestra director to volunteer lessons & mentoring some of the underprivileged kids next year, a few times a month.</p>
<p>Thanks again!</p>
<p>Ok, here's one more idea to chew on. The mentoring aspect would look good on his app for an EC. You had mentioned that he didn't want to teach, but if he does enjoy mentoring take a look at the "String Project" schools. You may well find a few that cross with your own list. The point here is that in most schools with a String Project program all music ed (and most performance) majors are either required or strongly advised to participate. </p>
<p>A small stipend or tuition credit $300-500 per semester is usually attached to participation and he may well find that he does enjoy teaching.</p>
<p>Food for thought, and another way to offset some costs.</p>
<p>Well, I believe I owe you & everyone else a large cappuccino for passing your knowledge and experience on to those of us still learning! Please know that it is much appreciated.</p>
<p>Bravo!!</p>
<p>~ Allison</p>
<p>And do look at Lawrence. I keep seeing the name appearing and I finally did look at their webpage. It's been mentioned here numerous times. Costs are not that bad for an LAC, they have a music program that is repeatedly mentioned, and they appear fairly generous in giving aid.</p>
<p>Cappuccino? Naw... just plain old black coffee. None of the flavored stuff. No milk, no sugar. A few grounds in the bottom of the cup is not a problem.</p>
<p>Costs are staggering and it is important to factor in financial safeties and have a serious discussion with your child on what you can and can't afford and how much debt you feel they can afford. Quite honestly, in a field with a precarious job situation like music performance, saddling a child with significant debt is not wise, IMHO. They have to know after visiting/auditioning each school, how much merit $ they'll need in order to attend there. Realistic expectations need to be set.</p>
<p>As I've posted before, Lawrence & Illinois Wesleyan gave DD generous offers. That being said, those offers brought those schools in line with IU out of state tuition. And of course, she decided on the most expensive school with the smallest merit offer. Something I refer to as the Tuition Corollary to Murphy's Law...</p>
<p>However, as binx mentioned, school needs may really help here. Since S "doubles," something that the more strict conservatories usually frown on (This depends on individual primary instructor so I used the world "usually." My D really wants to experience life in musical pit orchestras so as a wind player, she must double, triple or quadruple and her primary instructor is quite supportive). But in a small school with that doesn't have a large music program, the ability to double may be an asset that will reap larger rewards.</p>
<p>Cappucino? That's a very kind offer, but I think you'll find yourself craving some large volumes of harder stuff as this progresses...</p>
<p>Rudysmom--A colleague of mine was a cello performance major at UIUC and had a wonderful teacher and wonderful experience. I don't know who her teacher was, or obviously, if said teacher is still there (info is 10 years old!), but you should definitely investigate the U-I faculty yourself. Many HS guidance counselors do not understand the complexities of performance majors, and may or may not be presenting an accurate assessment of a particular school for a particular musical objective. And as you said,U-I is a great school, so don't just dismiss it without exploring further....</p>
<p>rudysmom
I know this will be offtrack when you are talking about music schools but i see a big red flag with your statement about only two years of language credit and the GC saying thats okay(IMHO, I dont think its okay).I beg you to rethink your S's schedule and make room for the third year.He may be cutting off many college options by lacking that third year of language,and why would you want to knock off those options when he still has time to remedy the situation?</p>
<p>cathymee, I totally agree and I am becoming more furious as I think about this since this discovery yesterday. It's really my own fault as I should've demanded that he take that 3rd year. This is really a huge problem. I already have a call in to his GC this a.m.
Thx!</p>
<p>that's all i wanted to say.....thanks for all your collective knowledge - this is really useful information!!!</p>
<p>I'm glad it's helpful to others than just me! Even tho this has obviously deviated from "music," it is still helpful.</p>
<p>I just happened to notice an error in my previous post. CIM offered my S $10k, as in $10,000 -- NOT $10. :)</p>