@websensation No worries here. My D is a really nice kid - very humble, respectful, and kind. (Yeah, I’m a little biased 
)
If adcoms were getting many students who did not live up to their essays, they’d change the process. But since that isn’t happening, I guess it’s working well for them. Besides, many of the top schools already offer interviews and competitive scholarships involve interviews, often multiple.
We knew my son’s story was a bit risky from the start, because part of it is that he is on one of the top HS hacking teams in the country. We debated with him whether to avoid the word “hacking” and say “cybersecurity” and “decryption”, but he wants to be at a college that wants kids like him and that includes people he will like.
He was very careful to tell each college that he is an ethical hacker and doesn’t ever use his powers for evil. But, except for about 3 colleges we could think of, “Let’s take the hacker” isn’t really something you picture AOs saying too often. Of those 3, he got into Caltech and CMU SCS. (Plus a bunch of UCs etc that weren’t as much of a question because of stats.)
While he gets A’s easily in English & history and likes to discuss polysci/economics, he didn’t have any achievements in those areas until after the application season. And he didn’t do team sports after 9th grade because research was taking up that time. So, he is very pointy in science/math/CS with CS classes even at the junior in most colleges level and physics research related to asteroids.
His essays improved noticeably as the writing season went along. So, a lesson learned from that might be “Don’t do the application you care about most as your first application (if it doesn’t add anything to your chances to apply EA).” Personally, I think high schools these days do a disservice to kids by telling them not to interject their own thoughts and feelings into writing for English classes and instead make “arguments from context only” about literary and non-fiction works. They haven’t been allowed to write anything that mentions themselves for classes since elementary school.
I think the questions on the MIT, Caltech, and Univ of California applications played to his strengths, while other applications didn’t as much. One of his Caltech essays I can easily picture being a favorite around the AO office.
Most colleges he applied to were large, so the main essay feedback he got was from Kenyon College, which loved his Common App essay and gave him quite good merit. It was surprising to us that Kenyon, which is known for its creative writing program, didn’t want any supplementary essays. He also got essay feedback from his UC Berkeley Regents faculty interviewer, who tried to recruit him to his CS program and away from physics.
My other theory is that he had the best results when applying to programs where the faculty are more involved in evaluating applications. Caltech faculty and seniors are used as application readers. For CMU SCS, I don’t know how admissions works, but the Colleges are so separate from each other at CMU that one thinks that SCS must be involved in admissions for its students. Berkeley’s Faculty Senate has pretty tight control over their Regents scholarship program, and selects and interviews those candidates. And at UCSB’s College of Creative Studies, which is an amazing program that happens to be too close to home for him so was 4th choice, the faculty select which students to admit.
I couldn’t agree with @Dolemite more, the personal narrative my daughter carried through her essays was noted in comment cards by several ad com’s. My daughter talked about the relationship between mathematics and dance, her intended major and EC. She talked about the beauty of numbers and rhythm and how those seemingly incongruous endeavors intersect for her. How advanced mathematics requires a level of creativity and how success in dance demands the regimented practice of repetition, precision, etc… She also talked about tutoring middle school girls in mathematics and encouraging them to peruse stem subjects as well as being an example to her teammates to pursue excellence academically even though so much of their time is spent pursing excellence in sport. This narrative resonated with many ad coms and likely compensated for her lack luster test scores.
Major has a lot to do with scholarships and admissions as well. D’s CS/Econ is one of the most popular, and we believe that hurt her in scholarships (they can’t have all winners with CS or Econ majors) and admissions at selective schools, besides her hookless status
A CS major literally drops an applicant down two tiers in the schools they can get into. Major definitely counts.
My DS is a “maker” (wants to be an inventor who creates gadgets/devices that help people) - he let his quirkiness come out some in his essay as he talked about loving learning about the evolution of tech and how he enjoys both building new things and dissecting the old devices to learn as much as possible from them - teachers and neighbors/friend give him their old stuff and he loves examining these things and repurposing them. I think his supps for many colleges were a connected theme but not one dimensional - he loves classical music and plays violin, and mentors young strings players etc. He has strong grades and high test scores and some nice awards but is not a “genius” kid that everything comes easily to nor a 24/7 worker. And he’d help someone in need or do his ECs (robotics, hacking, app building etc, FBLA competition stuff) over doing something he “should” be doing so definitely not so competitive academically with others though he wants good grades.
I think - if I had to guess - his teacher recs probably had a positive impact on many ad coms review of his app. He is a STEM kid to the core but really liked AP Lang and his teacher - head of Eng. dept said her rec for him was the longest on any she had written. He also has done original science research 4 years and was a Regeneron semi-finalis. He is strong willed so the notion of doing something to impress a college does not sit well with him. The only things he really did that were not his preferred classes (where he had a choice) were taking AP Lit and AP US History.
He got into most schools he applied to but not all and I do think that the highest level STEM schools probably look for higher math or math competitions (he has BC Calc as a senior) and evidence the student has what it takes to succeed because of past achievements & the tippy top schools (that are perhaps not quite as pointy STEM) are admitting students who have all the stats in great courses AND special hooks - be it a real “gift” that will contribute to the university or have some background that really stands out in a way they want (we have read many of those stories). I tend to think showing interest in schools (including visits) is helpful and being genuine about why is as well - relate your essays to what they are portraying as their brand/mission and to their programs of interest to you - be specific and believable (bc you are trying to show “why pick me” and if you do, I’ll go there). And for some schools (mid to lower tier) that gave my DS merit aid, it truly seemed it was based on his stats. Am sure others have different views and we have not really talked much to the ad coms but these are my reflections for now.
He had a bit of a hard time deciding among CMU (CIT), USC Viterbi, Georgia Tech, Rice and UPenn but decided on UPenn (SEAS) and plans to study electrical engineering, computer science ( (we are about 2 hours away and it has many positives, but several other schools are equally strong or stronger of course).
Hope this is a bit helpful for others. I get PMs from time to time & happy to try to help others. I am extremely grateful for all I have learned so far on CC in various thread and for the thoughtful supportive advice have gotten (I have a DS 2018!).
I think the top schools do look for unique essays and the everyday-smart-well-rounded-no-hook student (like our daughter) who has not written that mind-blowing essay is usually not going to get in to top tier colleges. However had she been accepted at a top college they would not find a harder-working student, but clearly that is not their top criterium. Irony is - our son (HS sophomore) who is doing horribly in school due to a combo of mental-health issues and no motivation- he could write a phenomenal essay as he is a very deep, fascinating person…as for branding I agree kids shouldn’t have to get so complicated at this young age when they are still in their formative years, and I suspect there are a lot of (not all) contrived essays as a result. It’s gotten way too complicated IMHO!
Adding my D17’s story for future reference:
GPA: 97.10 UW / 101.6 W (at time of applications)
ACT 33 C / 35 Superscore
9 APs (Chem, Euro, USH, English Lang, Physics 1, Calc AB, Macroeconomics, Stats, Studio Art)
Top 10% of nearly 200 students
Plans to major in Math/Econ possible Geoscience (former love rekindling)
White Female, unremarkable suburban Long Island public HS
ECs: captain HS varsity dance team, local company ballet, NHS, Key Club, local community center volunteering
full time summer work as deckhand on charter sailboat (very responsible). Nothing spectacular, but she did submit arts portfolios to the LACs that were “inclusive” in their policy (just wanted to get to know the kid better vs. seeing if they’re preprofessional level artists). Probably her biggest stumbling block was lack of academic/research type ECs especially considering she had no hooks.
Applied to 11 schools.
Accepted:
SUNY Stony Brook (accepted w/Dean’s Scholarship 5k/year and Women in Science & Engineering program)
SUNY Binghamton (accepted)
SUNY Geneseo (accepted - didn’t apply for merit because it was small award & a pain)
Fordham (accepted, 33K/year merit)
RPI (accepted, 21.5k/year merit)
Smith College (accepted, early write, STRIDE 25k/year merit + research stipend)
Hamilton College (got a little need based aid - enough to be do-able because she’s going!)
Denied:
Swarthmore ED (not surprising considering D has no hooks and their acceptance rate took a nosedive this year)
WL:
Colby (freebie no essay app, showed no interest, didn’t visit, no surprise)
Kenyon (same as Colby)
Vassar (not terribly surprised given how tough an admit this has gotten for female applicants, and again, D has no hooks, but a wee bummer as she liked this school - not as much as Hamilton - but it would have been a real contender.)
It really felt like fit won out for my D. I’d always heard that alumni interviews didn’t count for much, but my D had a fantastic interview with a local alum that made Hamilton leap up her interest list, she wrote a heartfelt essay for them, and lo and behold, it was the only one of 4 fairly comparable co-ed LACs where she was admitted vs. WL. After Hamilton, Smith was her clear 2nd choice and she would have been fine there. Getting the early write from them de-pressured the whole process and made the WLs at other schools relatively sting-free. She also liked RPI and probably would have picked them 3rd.
Daughter zeroed in on Chemical Engineering around the winter of her Junior year. At first she liked the idea of Clemson, but the tour just left a “no” in her mind. I think maybe it was too big. We have Georgia Tech in state, of course, and her Dad got his degree there, but she felt really uncomfortable with the thought of being in the heart of Atlanta (not a city girl). She really wanted to find a smaller size school within driving distance that had a good reputation for ChemE. We toured Mississippi State and University of Alabama in Huntsville (UAH). MS was a lovely school, and we got a personal consultation with the head of Chemical Engineering. We liked him a lot and wish we could move him to where D settled! Once we toured UAH, that settled it for her. She liked the size, the fact that it’s a little closer to home than MS, and she felt comfortable with the high percentage of…nerds…? She likes the way the campus is arranged, and she loves the fact that she’ll get her own bedroom (within a four-bedroom suite). She also likes the fact that there are so many job opportunities nearby. Having seen that it’s possible to work hard all through college and then not be able to find a job, this was important to her.
Both MS and UAH have very good merit scholarships, as do University of Alabama (the one in Tuscaloosa) and UABirmingham. D already had GPA and ACT for UAH’s free tuition scholarship. She was determined to raise her ACT four points in order to also earn free on-campus housing. She used the practice tests in the ACT prep book for a few weeks at the beginning of last summer and then took the ACT again. She met her goal on the first retake! She’ll have to work hard to keep a 3.0 GPA while there in order to keep the scholarship all four years.
I totally agree with @LoveTheBard (and @Dolemite and others) on this. I’ve told this story on CC before, but I was on a scholarship committee at my kids’ HS where the kids had to submit their transcripts, a list of their ECs, and an essay. Let me tell you, all those applications really start to blur together after a while. After you knock out the GPA’s that just won’t cut it, the GPAs are all within 0.2 of each other. The EC lists, well, the longer they are the more bored you get reading them. Everyone has at least one sport, a creative pursuit, academic awards of some sort, community service, maybe a part-time job. I had never realized how very similar most high-achieving kids’ resumes are until I sat on that scholarship committee. I could not tell many of those kids apart. And I only had about 30 applications to review!
The only thing that enabled me to distinguish between most of those kids was their essays. I ended up scribbling a few words on every application I read – “Girl Scout shoes project” or “student newspaper election story” or something – whatever would make me say to myself as I was flipping through my pile of applications, “oh yeah, this is THAT student.” Those phrases almost always came from the students’ essays, not from their list of ECs. As you fill out your college application, ask yourself: what will adcoms scribble on your application to remind themselves of who you are?
(Caveat: obviously, if you are applying to a school that is not hyper-competitive and where your stats will be so unusually high for their typical applicant pool that you will stand out just from your stats, then you probably don’t need to worry about any of this.)
Oh, and my D’s story is:
GPA: 4.3 W, 4.0 UW
ACT: 34
SAT subject tests: Math II 760, USH 670
AP Calc: 5
EC’s: self-taught art 5 hours/week, dance 5 hours/week, LGBTQ club 1 hour/week, 2 weeks summer programming camp, summer online community college digital painting class, tiny amount of volunteering (like maybe 20 hours lifetime total)
Acceptances: UC Berkeley, UCLA, UCSD, UCD, UCSB, UCSC, Cal Poly, Scripps, Lewis & Clark
Rejected: Pitzer
Attending: UCLA
D 17’s stats and results.
Applications:
[ul]
[li]Boston College: Accepted. Accepted into Honors. Offered 4 years of housing. Not one of the 20 Gabelli Scholars[/li][]Boston University: Accepted. Rejected from Kilachand Honors College. Applied for Trustee’s Scholarship, not selected. Received Presidential Scholarship, 20K per year. Named Sargent College Dean’s Scholar
[]Saint Louis University: Accepted. Accepted into 5-year Master’s program in OT. Accepted into Honors program. Interviewed for Presidential Scholarship, not selected. Presidential Finalist Scholarship - 26K per year.
[]Vanderbilt: Waitlisted. Didn’t pursue a spot on the waitlist. Applied for Cornelius Vanderbilt Scholarship, not selected.
[]University of Kentucky: Accepted. Accepted into Lewis Honors College. Received Patterson Scholarship, full cost of attendance. Interviewed for Singletary Scholarship, not selected.
[]University of Pittsburgh: Accepted. Accepted into OT Guaranteed Acceptance Program for Graduate School. Received 15K per year merit scholarship. Invited to apply for Chancellor’s scholarship, not selected.
[]University of Wisconsin: Accepted. No Merit Aid.
[]Washington University in Saint Louis: Waitlisted. - Applied for Scholarships, not selected. Didn’t pursue position on waitlist
[li]University of Southern California: Accepted. Accepted into 5-year Masters of OT.Accepted in Thematic Options honors program. Interviewed and selected as a Trustee Scholarship winner, full tuition award. Awarded 1K year NMS scholarship. Attending
[/li][/ul]
For all of those in the future, please try to enjoy some of the process. There are times of great stress, but there are also
some magic moments with your child.
Onward and upward.
And now
Fight On!
My daughter committed to Washington University in St. Louis.
Here is her information that can hopefully help someone in the future.
Weighted GPA 4.3 Weighted
Class rank: School does not rank
Test Scores:
ACT: 34C 35 E, 28M, 36E, 33S, 9W
AP Classes
AP English Language and Composition: AP Euro, AP Bio
AP United States History
AP World History:
AP Lit, AP Art History, AP Calc, AP Physics
Extracurricular Activities:
Student Body President – 12th grade
National Merit Finalist
Volleyball Varsity Captain – 12th grade and played Varsity 4years
Tennis Varsity – 3 years
Governor’s Honors Academy- 11th grade
Governor’s School for the Arts – 10th grade
HOBY Ambassador – 10th grade
Accepted: WVU, Kent State, Marist, Fordham (full tuition), USC, UNC-Chapel Hill, University of Wisconsin,
Washington University of St. Louis (Danforth Scholar)
Waitlisted: RISD
Rejected: Brown, Cornell
Intended Major: Fashion Design/Communications
Applied for FA: yes
Home state: WV
Race: Caucasian
Best wishes to everyone on their college journey! Looking back, it has been a series of adventures that I have enjoyed sharing with my daughter.
From the countless visits, the application process, the highs and lows of the acceptances and rejections and now the adventure continues into the college years!
S2 had the dilemma of even mentioning two of his main activities, parkour and boxing. He opted to mention neither. One is risky and often illegal, the other is controlled violence without the implied discipline of martial arts. He is a natural peacemaker, no drinking or partying, and did not want to appear otherwise.
His third main activity, climbing mountains, only got a brief mention in the list of activities, alongside things like rec soccer and setting up chairs for the senior center. People confuse it with indoor sport climbing like the little kids do. Few would understand either the challenge or the commitment. I encouraged him to write about a specifically harrowing time he had 600 feet up a rock wall but, to him, it was no big deal and something anyone else who climbs has done. Plus, the essay would have been just another “scored the winning goal” topic they were told to avoid.
Instead, he wrote about something much more pedestrian, not a great, memorable essay but authentic for him.
Stats
Unweighted: 3.92. highly ranked STEM HS. School does not weight, weighted to 4.3 for Cal Poly.
Class rank: School does not rank.
ACT 35C (E 36, M 31, R 36, S 36) One sitting, took half a practice test about 3 weeks earlier, did not finish the math section.
SAT 1540 (770/770) Ditto.
SAT Subject tests: Don’t remember, similar
7 AP’s, four 5s and two 4s, Calc BC next week, balance either Honors or College-in-Classroom.
Senior courses: AP Calculus BC, World History and Civics, Anatomy, Biomedical Eng, English, Engineering 2.
Essays: See above.
Recs: No idea, two teachers and the GC.
Major: Business
Applied for financial aid: Yes (2 kids in college next year)
Family income: $100-120k
Home state: WA
Race: Caucasian
Extracurricular Activities: See above, plus robotics, 1 year of Varsity lax, an aerospace internship and a business internship, not super impressive for a high stats kid.
Accepted:
Notre Dame (REA) Attending
Cal Poly (Dec 1 deadline, choice if he was denied ND and not Direct Admit at UW)
UW-Seattle (Dec 1 deadline) Direct Admit to Foster put it ahead of Cal Poly
After the ND decision, he pared the list down to only schools he might attend if they offered much better fin aid than ND.
Rejected: Brown, Penn, Cornell so choice was between UW and ND.
Post-mortem: He is a bit hard-headed and 100% refuses to do anything strictly for its appearance, or anything that seems more work than fun. Many of the kids at his school spent much more time, money, and energy polishing their resumes, some legitimate, some not. A professionally edited essay with a better topic would also have helped. ND has a couple of extra essay prompts on religion and spirituality, plus a “Take a Risk” wildcard where he did bring up mountaineering (trust and respect at the end of a rope, not “look at me” at all). Those were the best ones out of all his apps. Still, nothing to complain about, he is heading to his first choice.
Hope I can provide some information to future HS students and parents. D is very motivated student and has achieved all her grades and scores without outside help except for SAT prep (took a lot of tests at a prep class). Her IQ at 10 was 158 so we moved to the best school district in our area to take advantage of the academics offered, best decision we ever made. It is and will be the best financial hardship we have ever taken on and we would gladly do it again. D is very independent but introverted. Loves being around teachers, fellow high achieving students and musically talented people. Stresses out and dreads when working with “average” students or people. If your kids are very smart then you need to surround them with like minded students. D’s closest friends have been accepted to Stanford, UCB, UCLA, UCSD, UCI, UCSB, Brown, JHU, Harvard, Yale, Columbia, Cornell, UPenn, NYU, Duke, UChicago, Northwestern and many other top tier schools.
D 17’s stats and results.
GPA: 4.0/4.00 UW, 4.9/4.00 W.
Rank: School doesn’t rank. Top 1% of her class of about 650. 1 of 31 Valedictorians
High School: Public high school. Ranked very high in California and in top 200 nationally.
ACT: 36C - 36E 36M 36R 35S 35 Writing - Single sitting
SAT: 2350 - Single sitting
PSAT: 223
National Merit Finalist, Presidential Scholar Invitation
Rigor: Very highest classes available
EC’s: Various club officers. Notable: pres of band, secretary of nationally ranked debate team, pres of 300+ member service club outside of school, pianist at church youth fellowship, level 12 CM pianist.
App Essay: Very well written. D passion for learning and independent voice was outstanding
Recommendation: Counselor - Good, she is about to retire and did a good job. Teacher 1 (AP Lit) - Excellent, D is one of her favorite S because they have the same kind of dry humor. Teacher 2 (AP Latin) - Very good, D is her best S in classs.
State: CA
Race: Asian
Applications:
Accepted: Stanford (committed), Columbia University, Pomona College, Amherst, UCB, UCLA, UCSC, USC, & Rice
Waitlisted: Harvard
Denied: Williams, Wellesley, Swathmore, UPenn, Yale & Claremont
When the top tier schools are what your shooting for, there are hundreds of S that fill so few precious spots available. Your essays will either get you in or it was not good enough to impress the AO’s. The regional AO for Stanford remembered specifics from my D’s essay when we met her at a local event for admitted students. The Dean quoted some of her essay in his opening remarks to the students and parents. The application process is very stressful, you have raised your kids to the best of your ability, trust them to do the best they can, it will be very rewarding when they tell you where they got in.
GO CARDINAL!
Fortunately college is a time to mature and grow as a human being.
@gr8pl8 - I am surprised your D was rejected by so many schools. Clearly shows the bias and may be time to join the class action law suite that’s currently underway.
I’m not so sure about “Clearly shows the bias…” If “Stresses out and dreads when working with ‘average’ students or people” had in any way indicated in her essays or interviews…
Ew. No thanks. We enjoy all types of humans.
With the possible exception of the insufferable ones living in ivory towers.
Hey, now, @MotherOfDragons, be fair—some of us ivory tower professor types have a wide range of friends, too! 