I am surprised that the Oberlin Con admissions director said those things. Oberlin is known to have a “seamless” double degree program, one of the most welcoming for students who want to do music and something else. In music, Oberlin grads have excellent results with grad school admissions, and I believe in other areas of study too. I think Oberlin tends toward the progressive, so that is a factor to consider for some. Again, I don’t get it! Maybe the comments were particular to science and medicine.
2 Likes
Yes. Perhaps! My son’s double major would be Animal Science, Environmenal Science or Biology and those were his selected majors in other non-music school programs he applied to.
2 Likes
But a double degree would seem to be better for science plus music, versus double major. Granted it’s an extra year, but mixing music and science as a double major is notoriously difficult due to conflicts between rehearsals and labs etc. The double degree makes it easier.
Who knows with a 22 year old non-communicator… maybe they discussed TA spots or he was led to believe they offer them once you are there? Either way, with the scholarship it’s very affordable.
It’s hard with grad school - with undergrad we all could be much more involved in the decision-making. Grad school we have to trust them to make the best decision. I’m sure your very talented D will end up in the right place for her.
1 Like
I hate to sound like a broken record, but my double degree applying kid got a very different line on double degree at Oberlin from music faculty a few years back. We went from an info session where double degree was touted like it was super common. To directly meeting a faculy member who said “freshman don’t do that in my studio”. And every double degree student we met visiting while visiting campus (coincidentally) added after the fact. We had a couple other conversation that hinted it wasn’t that seamless or great in all circumstances.
Obviously there are happy students doing double degree at Oberlin with supportive facuty. But if you don’t connect with a supportive member of music faculty on it, that may not be you. For UG performance heavy programs like Oberlin specifically, I suspect a lot of departments would prefer to limit the numbers of double degree students. Possibly particularly in areas where they have plenty of musicians to chose from. We had a similar experience at a couple other schools that broadly advertise double degree as an option.
My kid is graduating double degree from a large public unviersity and got the most love from large univerities that would probably be most regarded for music as possibly better for grad school and had the ability to be flexible with a multi interested undergrad. Double degree is intense but is the right path for some students. He did a TON of performance as an UG. But it was very self selected what he wanted to spend time on.
My recommendation is always to ask the hard questions directly to music faculty. Ask double degree students how they ended up in double degree and how it’s going for them. Having a supportive private teacher as a cheerleader is important.
2 Likes
This has changed. The college and conservatory have made a big effort to streamline the double degree program such that it doesn’t interfere with the ability to participate in the intensive first couple of years of music studies. It’s more heavily balanced towards music in the first 3 years and then the balance shifts towards the college degree after that.
My S knows many double degree students and even one double degree/double major student. About a third of the con students are double degree students.
1 Like
I have heard the tone has changed. My double degree kid is still in college, this wasn’t that long ago. I also wonder how much covid may have shifted things.
I would still always recommend that double degree interested students have an extended conversation with a potential teacher about it and noting carefully tone and response. Marketing doesn’t always align with reality in every studio.
I’m not trying to say I am an Oberlin expert at all. I just have been through the process twice and do a little volunteer consulting and have seen some weird things. Teacher fit is super important especially for double degree students.
I’m not sure who’s question we are responding to, but I don’t believe @Momeila’s student applied for double degree at Oberlin. @momeila, is that correct?
I was thinking about him and how the student day was so awkward. I’m glad it was a misunderstanding. It sounds like he’s had some confusing teacher and admissions reactions and advice. Is he leaning toward one school with his heart, regardless of the double degree factors? Obviously they are critical. My only experience with Oberlin is a friend who went there many years ago to study raptors, and the animal science reminded me of that. 
2 Likes
I think it sounds so strange that the director would say those things. Regardless of whether a double degree is doable there, the admissions director must have felt strongly about something to go beyond the good of his own school. That said, adults are weird. Seriously, there was something going on with him that day.
@BoyFluteMom, can you talk confidentially with any parents to learn about their kids’ real-life experiences with these schools? I’ve made a couple connections with parents here who I’m DM’ing with about my kid’s final picks, and it’s been a tremendous help.
1 Like
This reminds me of something we learned all the way back in kindergarten. We found out the day to day experience in a classroom is not based on overall programs or what the principal believes, but on the teacher. An understanding prof who believes in double degrees would not leave a student feeling pushed or pulled to give 100% to the music.
1 Like
Yes! I remember sitting in an orientation event during the summer and having the administrator or teacher (cant’ remember) saying that the school was behind in the “entrepreneural” aspect of music. He kind of went off on it. I remember thinking…hmmm…someone should be keeping on eye on what this guy is saying…lol. It was inappropriate for the meeting…and he had not a clue. He was probably a great musican and teacher…at least I hope so!
Please note that my D seems to react differently to this “stuff”. I come from a business background where things are “pretty buttoned up”. I found the round-about, too honest discussions with music administrators/teachers…curious. The admissions dept is all…you can do anything here! And the absent-minded faculty member is all…what? where? nooo…well maybe…let’s talk about that…and we’ll see what happens…in context to Bach (how did we get here?). My D would say…oh I totally get it. I wasn’t sure if I missed something, was being gaslit by my own kid…or just couldn’t herd cats (and was mad about it).
Anywho…for grad school…my D was her own…as I was too confused by it all…
Edit: sorry for my buttoned up typos!!
1 Like
Yes! When my husband and son went to a Music School College Fair at Peabody in the fall, they DISTINCTLY and EXPLICITY noted the reaction to each school to the concept of double major/degree.
The reps from Temple, Oberlin and Hopkins I think, marketedly and physically shifted their entire demeanor at the thought of double degree.
To the contrary, when they went to the UMCP table, their rep said "unlike other schools that frown upon double degree/major, we actually support it.
That was the feel/reaction/ sentiments I got from th UMD Flute prof when we went to visit during a flute studio open session last fall. Like Come! We love Double Majors! We support you! It can be done! We have resources and accomodations and we will not shun you.
My daughter’s 6th-8th grade math teacher said eons ago when she went in to audition at Oberlin for Voice and Violin I think that each prof finger wagged her for auditioning for both. I think that’s a different thing than doubl major/degree but it supports what was being said above about faculty members can determine your experience.
The teacher was admitted to one or both but the experience turned her off that she opted against music altogether.
Yes! Each time he did, I said to myself, this guy is totally “not corporate” – said from a person who was a corporate suit herself in her younger days. You never spoke iill against the Company. 
I think I will see if I can find any on one of those admitted Facebook groups. Thanks @BeverlyWest
Yes! Oberlin!! It has been his dream school forever! I asked him on Monday after the UMD admitted students event if he has made his decision and he told me to give him one more day. Today is Wednesday. I didnt ask yesterday. I think he is over all of this, honestly. lol
2 Likes
This is exactly what we experienced. My kid applying now is straight music and my older kid was double degree. It’s been a really different experience between the 2, even at some overlapping programs. I could drone on all day about it!
Anyway, I’m definitely not saying believe me or double degree is awful at Oberlin or anywhere else. There are definitely students doing it and having a great experience. I just recommend pursuing these 1-1 conversations because they can be very telling if double degree is really important to your student! Had similar interactions at other schools that heavily market double degree. Music teachers are individuals.
Crossing fingers your kiddo feels good about comitting very soon! All great choices, no doubt. 
Yes to that- if the teacher is unsupportive, it won’t work. But it seems weird to me that anyone at Oberlin would object or have any concern considering it is (now) baked into the curriculum. I am wondering if anyone has hit any resistance in say, last year or this year’s application process?
It’s a requirement at Bard in the conservatory, so there certainly shouldn’t be any issues with faculty there, right?
Now, two instruments or two music performance majors, that’s an entirely different beast. At Oberlin, the double degree is a BM and a BA- the BA is from the college, not the conservatory. I can see faculty bristling at that notion. Also, I do see faculty resisting a double major- that would conceivably take time and attention away from music studies and be difficult to juggle in four years.
2 Likes
Hi! My child is in the Oberlin flute studio and doing the double degree with a science major. He has found it to be a wonderful, challenging yet doable experience. He chose Oberlin specifically for the flute prof and the double degree program. I would be happy to DM to discuss further.
3 Likes
Anecdotal but dd24 has friends who are headed to O this year who seem to have navigated this and be happy they will be supported; also one of their friendship group is in their first year and gives very positive feedback as to their experience.
I can see the need to test with individual teachers to make sure they are supportive in practice though.
1 Like
This was most definitely our exact expectation when my double degree student started looking at programs. I definitely thought where it was advertised and marketed, teachers would fall in line and be excited to have multi interested students.
But it turns out individual teachers can have feelings and some will state limits and reservations out loud. We literally went from info session where it was gung ho we love our double degree students directly to kid having a sample lesson that went really great until double degree came up. Some individual teachers even directly said they wouldn’t take double degree students in their studio or limit/discourage them. It was a super weird and unexpected juxtoposition.
That said, I do think this covid stretch was ripe for teacher/program evolution/thinking on this topic. I am also sure this can vary widely depending on who you first talk to on a campus and on instrument. I think it is wonderful @Ocean30 's student is having a great experience and has a supportive teacher. That is exactly what one would hope for. I just recommend asking directly as many individuals as possible.
3 Likes