<p>My daughter is deciding on classical voice vs musical theatre and where to go. Any suggestions</p>
<p>Is she a junior?
There is another section for that.
<a href=“Musical Theater Major - College Confidential Forums”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/</a></p>
<p>I have one kid who is a musical theatre graduate and another who is a voice performance major (classical) so I’ve been down both paths. The music forum and musical theatre forum on CC can be very helpful. If your D doesn’t want to choose between these two genres, she should look into Oklahoma City University which allows you to major in both. Also, Catholic University provides very good classical training for their MT grads. There are others, as well. The specific forums should point you in the right direction.</p>
<p>What is your budget?</p>
<p>Does she have any preferences? big, small, warm weather, cold weather, rural, city, ??</p>
<p>I’ve heard good things about Syracuse, and Im in Seattle.
For musical theatre, Id look for an area which has a vibrant theatre community apart from the university.
I know several people who have attended Cornish in Seattle and are happy and working.
Seattle also has a pretty strong arts community.
Your state flagship may have a good program as well.
Whenever you are interested in the arts as a career, it is advised to be competent in many areas of a production, as you might find yourself painting or building sets, even as you rehearse.
So a smaller program may enable you to get more experience in wearing many hats.
Since income is likely to be limited for a while, it would be very prudent to keep costs down.
Learning an instrument will increase employabilty as well, although I assume she already plays piano?</p>
<p><a href=“ABC's of Voice Degrees”>http://majoringinmusic.com/abcs-of-voice-degrees/</a></p>
<p>I am going to reiterate what was mentioned already on this thread…which is to spend time on both CC’s Musical Theater forum and CC’s Music Majors Forum (seeking Vocal performance threads) where there is a wealth of information. As someone who advises students going into these fields, I once had a student who couldn’t decide between MT and VP and so she applied to some of each type of program and eventually settled on VP and graduated from Oberlin Conservatory. Another thing is that if your daughter goes the MT route, she may be attracted to MT programs that are in Music Departments and offer a BM degree instead of a BFA degree, as there will be a heavier focus on music, including classical training. OCU was mentioned but there are others such as NYU/Steinhardt. </p>
<p>@soozievt is the resident expert on MT and similar issues. </p>
My D wasn’t sure which major she wanted to do either. I’m not sure looking at forums would have helped. Last summer she auditioned for the Boston Conservatory Vocal Choral Intensive, a singing program for HS students. The focus is singing both classical and MT (students can indicate if they have a preference). It was through this program that she decided to major in MT. There are lots of similar programs throughout the country. Worth exploring.
If she wants to be in musical theater then study musical theater. If she is a huge opera fan, studies and really really loves opera, art song repertoire, enjoys language study, then study classical voice. Opera is a long long haul and study takes the singer well past grad school.My D, a professional classical singer, finds most of her young HS students don’t understand the first thing about opera, have never been to an opera and have no idea what a career in opera looks like now days. For either field of study, go where you will not incur debt. Music study is expensive and the first years after study, (living in a large expensive city, auditioning, paying coaches etc) are even more expensive and leave little room for paying off student loans.
Wingwing2 my d faced the exact same dilemma . Her strength in mt was always her voice (it’s what landed her her first professional show). She was trained by a classically trained voice coach so her technique was strong. Nevertheless up until her junior year she had only done musical theatre minus one opera masters class when she was 11. It was really tough learning 5 foreign language art songs in less than 6 months for prescreens/auditions.
This is an actual excerpt from her recent facebook post…
“For the longest time I thought I was going to be a musical theatre major. Around 7-8th grade we moved to a new house and one of our neighbors ( this old man from down the street) heard I like to sing and was recently involved with an opera camp. He went back to his house and brought back about 10 CDs of Italian for English learners saying he thought this might help me later on in my career. This apparently was a sign that I clearly missed. Fast forward towards the end of my junior year. One of my old directors Karen (who helped direct into the woods) called me up asking what I was going to do for college. I told her musical theatre and she suggested I also look into the classical direction see what happens. I was hesitant at first but after long consideration I made the decision to focus all of my auditions on classical training. I never thought it would bring me to this winter wonderland. I love musical theatre with all my heart and can’t wait for what future I have with it… But now I’m glad have a new appreciation for classical singing and can’t wait to see what it holds”
Long story short, she opted to be a vp bm major and she is currently a freshman at hartt (the winter wonderland). The great thing about vp at hartt is that they encouraged her to explore both mt and classical vocal performance. She is not getting a degree in opera…she is getting a vocal performance degree.
Lots of teachers have told her she eventually has to choose between classical and mt. She has defiantly told them, she chooses both. And why not. She can belt high (with healthy technique) and she can sing legit. Her “opera voice” is still forming so who knows. So why not? Maybe one day she’ll wear a meat suit on saturday and sing a beautiful rendition of the sound of music the Sunday. Why not? Who says that my or your daughter has to fit or follow the mold of anyone else?
Over the winter break she was madame defarge in the musical a tale of two cities and this summer she has been offered an ensemble opera role in Austria.
I don’t say this to brag…but instead to encourage your daughter to follow her path.
I and a couple of other people go back and forth between the mt and the music forums. If your d is interested in talking to my d…pm me. She has been more than happy to talk to others from cc about her personal experience.
Either way best of luck on the journey!
My D is interested in musical theatre and in fact auditioned for just one mt program last year. She attends ccm for vocal performance now and her teacher has had several students who work regularly on broadway. Audra McDonald studied voice. Just sayin.
OCU has a number of people who double major in VP and MT. Or you could choose to focus on one or the other. No matter your major, you will audition for all musicals and operas of which there are quite a few. If she chose MT, the MT program is very classically based, requiring classical rep as a significant part of your juries. The MT major also includes performing a recital of classical repertoire in your junior year. And because it is a Bachelor of Music degree there is also a heavy emphasis on music theory, aural skills, piano and other music based curriculum. But the nice thing is, you don’t have to choose between the 2 degrees if you are undecided. You can double major if you wish.
Currently there are a large number of OCU VP alums performing on Broadway, in national tours and with major opera companies. For example, one VP alum who just graduated in May, 2014 is currently the lead in the current national tour of Jekyll and Hyde. And another 2014 grad just had a major role with the Tri-Cities Opera. Of course everyone hears about well known OCU alums such as Kristin Chenoweth and Kelli O’Hara but we also have wonderful classically focused alums like Sarah Coburn.
There are many wonderful VP programs around the country, so lots to consider. But I would highly recommend OCU for great training in both VP and MT.
Schools that offer a Bachelors of Music in Musical Theatre and schools that offer an MT certificate or MT minor that can be paired with a BM in Vocal Performance may be of interest.
Schools that offer a BM in MT
Arizona State University
Baldwin-Wallace College
Belmont University
Capital University (BM VP w/MT Emphasis)
Catholic University
Florida State University (BM and BFA)
James Madison University (BA and BM)
New York University: Steinhardt School of Education
Oklahoma City University
University of Central Oklahoma
University of Mobile
University of North Carolina at Pembroke
University of Southern Maine
University of Texas at Arlington
Western Carolina University (BM and BFA)
Schools that offer MT certificates and minors in MT that can be paired with a VP BM
Kentucky
USC
SMU
Drake
Montclair
Michigan State
University of Nebraska Lincoln
Tulsa
Western Kentucky
These lists are not all-inclusive. There are certainly more schools in the latter list.
For those of you who don’t know, my degrees are all in classical voice and I sang professionally as an opera singer. With that in mind, here are my thoughts as a MT voice teacher:
-Most vocal performance programs do not offer equivalent acting and dance classes for vocal performance majors. This can put singers at a real disadvantage in today’s marketplace. If the student can get those classes outside of their major, either as a minor or from a private studio, they stand a better chance of having success out of a vocal performance degree.
-My colleagues and I analyzed 1200+ casting notices on Backstage.com over a six month period and found that only around 60 auditions asked for legit/classical repertoire. Over 50% asked for repertoire that was either pop/rock or contemporary musical theatre, most of which has heavy pop influence. Classical training alone is not sufficient to train students for today’s market.
-Prominent voice scientists, laryngologists, speech therapists, and pedagogues will tell you that the physiological demands of classical singing are different than those for contemporary musical theatre. Some “classical” teachers train their students with a technique that is free enough for the students to easily learn contemporary music on their own. Many do not. There is an entire book written by voice pedagogue Richard Miller that discusses all of the technical differences between the “classical” voice training found in Germany, Italy, France, England, the Scandanavian countries, and the U.S. There is NO standardized “classical” or “bel canto” technique. Some students get very lucky, others do not.
-Learning to sing in Italian, French, German, and “classical” English can create tension issues that are difficult to break when learning to sing like you speak. Again, some teachers train their students in a manner that does not cause these difficulties, many others do not.
-The way traditional musicals are sung today is much different than how they used to be sung. Listen to the original Billy in Carousel and then listen to the most recent revival. They are very different. Listen to the most recent Cinderella, Laura Osnes sings with a beautiful pop-mix.
-There is one Audra McDonald. Only one. She gets nearly all of the roles that want a voice like hers. There are at least another 1,000 singers out there working who sound like musical theatre performers and not Audra. She is fabulous, but I hate seeing her always laid out as an example when she is an outlier, not the norm.
If opera is what the student loves or if they love it equally as well as MT, then it is a tough decision. I will say that I know multiple people who got their bachelor degree in MT so they could get the acting and dance training and then got their masters in vocal performance. However, if MT is their primary love and they are looking at a voice performance degree as an alternative path to a career, I think you are asking for trouble and disappointment. I think they are much better off getting an acting degree and a voice minor or taking private voice lessons outside of the school along with every dance class they can enroll in.
~VT
@VoiceTeacher - This is an incredible post.
It gives me greater insight in SU’s incredible singers. I look forward to seeing them next week in Chattanooga.
Thank you @TheaterHiringCo I’m looking forward to SETC too, always a good time.
My daughter wrestled with this problem during all four years of high school. She loved musical theatre and knew she wanted to sing, but she also wanted a solid foundation as a musician. We researched several programs and the clear message we got from most conservatory teachers was that the two options are not compatible, at least within the college arena (we did not check out OCU, so maybe that is different). Liberals arts colleges tended to tell us that we could create a program to my daughter’s liking, but she was not convinced. She ended up going the classical route at a city university. Her main reason was that she felt her particular voice type and sound were more suited to classical training (legit soprano, probably coloratura, according to her teacher). She also thought that the BM route would give her better education as an all-round musician (she plays piano, too, and is a fluent sight reader). For the most part, her choice has worked out. Fortunately, she is with an excellent teacher who understands her divided interests. She is taking acting classes and dance outside her regular program (expensive, but worth it), is apprenticing/interning at a professional theatre, has taken roles outside school, and constantly auditions. She also works with a musical theater vocal coach outside school (with her teacher’s blessing). She gets frustrated that her college (which has a decent MT program) does not let the vocal majors have access to dance or acting classes, even if paid for separately. (She thinks the single acting/dance electives offered to vocal students are a joke). Also, she feels the vocal majors are treated as the ugly stepsisters at her school–the best facilities and the best performance opportunities go to the MT majors. Overall, she thinks she made the best choice for her voice type. Neither she nor her teacher feel that her outside-school activities are interfering with her vocal training. She says that her first-hand experiences with professional theatres have given her a better understanding of the industry than her peers are getting. It is such a tough decision and there is no easy answer, especially when students are so young that they are not clear on their career options. I guess my recommendation would be to visit both departments in schools and ask questions. There is no single path that guarantees success in theatre or musical theatre; it is up to the student to work out the path that will best develop his or her own talents.
Voice teacher i think your insights are well noted but to offer some additional thoughts.
- Depending on the conservatory/university vocal performance majors need not be only opera majors. This was a discussion d has had with the head of the vocal program and her voice teacher who both support her training in both styles. But there appears to be a small contingent of programs (summer and university level) that are encouraging a crossover approach. This may be a survival tactic for what some believe to be the dying art of opera but it may have legs. Musikbavaria and operabreve are two examples. However beware because there are those who highly discourage crossover artists on both sides of the spectrum. When she auditioned she said that some of the questions from the panel reflected the divide.
- There are other paths to pursuing a mt career than becoming a broadway. There are opportunities throughout the country including Chicago and la for mt performers.... teaching voice to aspiring college mt students is another. My daughters goal is to become a paid performer. Dream jobs include voices of liberty singer for disney, performing on Broadway or the met and becoming a college voice professor. She like most mt majors love to perform. Mt has been a reliable and paying method for her and at this moment continues to be one of her dreams.
- There are more people currently on Broadway and in musical theatre in general that have a non mt background than Audra Mcdonald. Of course Audra and Alfie Boe are two well known vp majors that even novice mt goers would know. I took a quick unscientific look at the two broadway play bills I have and there were 4 vocal performance majors in those programs (not huge, but there). Due to the fact that we are from California, i have far more pantages and sergestrom playbills and there are a number of vp majors. Don't get me wrong, these aren't superstar performers nor even that anyone would recognize their name; but the odds of becoming a superstar in mt are paramount to winning the lottery regardless of your degree.
- The director my d referenced is a director with moonlight vista, the welk theatre, and several other well known paying theatres in southern california. Her comment to my d was unsolicited and came nearly a year after my d performed as little red in one of her shows. Her advice was that for my d voice is her strength and that she should capitalize on her strength. She's very good comedic and dramatic actor but will never be a strong dancer...she falls into that moves well category. She said that having the ability to sight read and harmonize difficult parts would benefit her greatly. Something music directors would love.
- I agree 100% that choice of voice teachers is so crucial. My d attended a performing arts school in orange county and i was surprised to learn that 3 of her mt classmates had nodes which required surgery. When i selected her first voice teacher I interviewed 6 people before selecting her voice teacher. Her voice teacher is an mt veteran who received her bm in vp from BYU and her masters from Cal State Long Beach. She left full time mt to raise a family and currently teaches voice to mt students at Cal State Fullerton. She studied with her for 6 years. On three separate instances she took sample lessons with other instructors and she opted to not return because of the techniques they were asking her to do strained her voice. They must be two of those weird, " I love them both equally people".
A huge reason my d choose the bm versus the bfa was due to the liberal arts requirements in the bfas in the area. She is bright and has been doing amazing in her college classes but has a math learning disability that caused lots of problems in high school. And since she did not participate in any ap courses she would have to complete the full requirements. Her gpa was not horrible (3.1) because she works very hard, but her ACTs were abysmal which means she didn’t qualify for certain schools academically. My son is the brainiac and can attend harvard/yale.
Sorry for the long diatribe…but as a final note there are lots of posts on cc about finding a school with the right fit…I would contend that the same applies to a major…it may be the right fit for one, but not another.
Best of luck whatever you choose!
For anyone torn between the two disciplines, there are a few schools where you can double major in VP and MT. I can only speak specifically to OCU. OCU students do learn how to sing in contemporary styles - they can belt with the best of them - while still having a strong background in classical training. I do not think it has to be an either/or situation. But I agree you do have to have professors who understand different genres and how to transition from one to another. I know others feel differently. But at least at OCU, even with the strong emphasis on classical training, the students are having good success being hired in great roles in many different MT genres (right now we have recent alums in roles such as Elphaba in the national tour of Wicked, Emma Carew in the national tour of Jekyll & Hyde, Molly Jensen in the national tour of Ghost the Musical and many others, We even had someone who was the lead singer in the winning acapella group, Home Free, on The Sing Off on NBC). Not to mention well known alums like Kristin Chenoweth in On the 20th Century and Kelli O Hara in the King and I and Bridges of Madison County. All very different shows and styles of singing. But all trained with a classical foundation. At the same time we also have many accomplished alums singing with opera companies around the world.
I agree with all of the previous posters. There is no one right answer. Find the school and program that best fits you.
I have no personal experience with this approach, but VP students at Northwestern may also audition for the MT Certificate program and can audition for all shows.