Vocal Performance - classical, but without major focus on opera

College Majors Music Major
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<p>I have a d who is a senior and looking into VP programs. She loves musical theatre and classical singing, but is not wanting a program with too much focus on opera. She also has decided against pursuing MT as a major. She is a good student academically and has good SAT scores that should get her some merit at smaller schools. I am pretty sure she does not want to go to NYC or west coast. East coast to TX would be our location range. </p>

<p>We have some money put aside for college, but for a VP major, we have decided that this has to be a no-student-loans path (don't judge me!!). A program that would have some options for a minor would be awesome, but I realize that is not always possible. She does have several dual credits, so it's possible some of her gen, ed. courses will be covered by transfer credits. She is also a good writer, but does not want to major in CW or English. She could also do really well in something like graphic design. She originally wanted to do costume design, but for some reason has decided not to pursue that. She is also a pianist, but not probably advanced enough at this point to major in piano. If nothing else, it would be good to have a program where she could continue her studies in piano - perhaps accompanying or pedagogy. (Obviously she can't do ALL of that...just providing some more info. about her.)</p>

<p>I was a music ed. major myself, so I sort of know some of the "good" schools, but not even sure what I "know" about them is still true. Even so, I know that she needs to find a good voice teacher and that's probably even more important than the school itself. I would love for her to find a program where she can have opportunities for singing with small ensembles. I never had that opportunity throughout college, and I really regret that. </p>

<p>I'm looking for any suggestions and guidance anyone can offer. :)</p>

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<p>What does your daughter want to do with a degree in VP? You list a number of ideas, but they’re all over the place- it would help a lot if we knew what she would like as a career and what she is willing to put forth to get there.</p>

<p>In all honesty, if she doesn’t intend to go to grad school as a performance major, there wouldn’t be a reason for her to get that type of undergrad degree. Any program that is really good is going to be expensive and if you and she are not willing to take out loans and don’t have enough put aside to pay for the schooling minus and scholarships she might get, then again, consider another major. There are plenty of schools where your daughter, should she wish to, can participate in choirs and ensembles even without being a performance major: St Olaf and Luther come to mind and I know others here know of more small schools which would fit the requirements. Good undergrad VP programs will focus on Art Song progressing into opera and arias. There is no future as a recital singer for someone who hasn’t had a decent career on the opera stage, although singing in community groups and some oratorio work might come her way.
A very high level of competence is expected of collaborative piano majors and the same for piano pedagogy.</p>

<p>You’re right in assuming that what you knew about schools 20+ years ago is not relevant now! Programs and schools have changed dramatically, and it’s far more difficult to get into a good VP program now than it was. Hundreds- even thousands (especially in the case of sopranos) vie for each open spot and while some once great programs have slumped, other hidden gems have sprung up.</p>

<p>Perhaps with more information we can help you further.</p>

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<p>@Mezzo’sMama (I don’t know why that doesn’t seem to be working.)

</p>

<p>That’s funny, because after writing all that I wrote, I was thinking I had given TOO much information!! ;)</p>

<p>She doesn’t really know what she wants. That’s part of the problem. I realize (and I’ve explained this to her) that vp doesn’t lead to much unless you pursue post-grad work. But it can be a foundation for teaching, performing, directing, etc. Right now, it’s just one of the few areas where she is dedicated. I realize she can be in choirs, etc. without being a performance major, but that’s not what she wants. There’s a lot more to being a music major than performing in a choir. The thing I mentioned about smaller ensembles was about opportunities to be in something other than the large perf. organizations. Some schools have a lot of groups where others seem to have 2 or 3 major groups (100+ members) and maybe a smaller group (12-20) for mostly grad students. </p>

<p>I shared the other information to show that she is a creative type and that she will most likely find another area to minor in. It’s probably extraneous information for most people, but I thought it might click for someone who recognizes similar traits in their own kid.</p>

<p>I did say we have some money put aside. It’s a decent sum (sorry- not going to give specifics), but not enough for a $40K/year school that doesn’t give merit aid or scholarship $. If that shuts out some good programs, so be it. That’s the decision we’ve made.</p>

<p>As for opera, it’s just not her main focus. She really loves musical theatre, but does not want to major in it. She wants to continue her vocal training. We looked at BM programs in MT, but she just decided in the last couple weeks to close that door for now. So, what I’m looking for are programs that would be good for someone like her -somewhere she will not be considered a second-class citizen if she is not 100% opera-bound. I realize these programs are competitive. I’d kind of like to know what schools to avoid (not because they’re bad schools…just not a good fit for her) and what schools to look into a bit more.</p>

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<p>W2BeHome:</p>

<p>Would a school such as Skidmore College in Saratoga Springs, NY work for your daughter? They have a definite focus on the arts, and the music building is beautiful. I don’t know much about Vocal Performance, but it seems like a B.A. degree would allow your daughter to focus on music while also exploring other interests. They offer music scholarships and claim to meet demonstrated need, but of course they get to define the need!</p>

<p>This summer we took the Visual and Performing Arts tour in addition to the regular campus tour. Our tour guide was a theater major, and Skidmore offers a class in costume design which might interest your daughter. They don’t offer Musical Theater, so vocal performance must be along the more classical vein. Graphic Design is within the Studio Arts program, we saw some flyers on the wall that students had created for a design class. I don’t know if one can major or minor in GD, though. </p>

<p>Skidmore seems like a very good option for creative students who want to be involved in the arts but also have lots of room to dabble. Most activity happens on campus for students, although students do venture to Saratoga Springs on Saturdays and sometimes purchase rush tickets at the Saratoga Performing Arts Center. </p>

<p>The school was founded in 1903, but moved to its current campus in 1964 or so. Fortunately, it does not look like “1960s campus architecture” to me - thankfully very little concrete. It is a very nice campus, although it might not be to everyone’s taste. The layout is park-like and the brick buildings are harmonious with the surrounds. Every residence hall room has a window seat which is a nice perk.</p>

<p>Muhlenberg College in PA pops up now and then on this forum, but I personally don’t know anything about it. It might be worth checking out. Hopefully others offer insight into additional programs.</p>

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<p>@goodbooks, thanks for taking the time to reply. I checked those schools out that you recommended. The price tag on them is kind of high for a BA to me. If D does go the route of a BA instead of a BM, then I’d probably have her stay closer to home, in more affordable school, and/or at a school with a BM option if she decided to go that route after a year or so. For now, we’re looking mainly at the BM programs. </p>

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<p>It’s impossible to know in advance what a price tag on school will be. No reason to rule any school out in advance of applying, and hearing back about awarded aid - either merit or financial. It can even change as the deadline approaches with new increased offers.</p>

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<p>Thanks, @SpiritManager, I completely get that. It wasn’t just the price tag of those schools, but that in combination with the degree offered and the location. </p>

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<p>How about Oberlin? Expensive but great school and all students have access to the voice teachers. They also have student run musicals that all students are welcome to participate in. I think Lawrence University has the same policy, in that all students are welcome to take lessons and perform in ensembles and audition for musicals. Also, Lawrence was offering a discount to students because enrollment was down. </p>

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<p>I agree with SpiritManager. You cannot predict the cost based on the list price. Aid varies drastically and a school you think is out of reach becomes the most affordable option. Based on your OP seems you have ruled out conservatory programs. Have you looked at state schools? Florida State U offers in state tuition to out of state music majors and they stack academic merit on top. </p>

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<p>@Dradsmom and @Scubachick, Thanks for the replies. </p>

<p>We’re working on a list right now. I’ll just put it out there without explanations of why certain schools are on the list. As I’m sure you can imagine, these decisions come with many variables. There are 13 schools on the list, so I’m assuming we’ll need to trim it down. How many schools is too many to handle for auditions, etc? If I were to drop some schools, do you have some suggestions for which ones might be the first to go?</p>

<p>SMU, UNT, Texas Tech, CCM, Belmont, BW, Webster, Hartt, Shenandoah, Wheaton (IL), Eastman, Oberlin, Indiana</p>

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<p>By the way, I should probably say that my thread title was probably not a good way to start. I realize that most of these programs do focus on opera. Maybe what I should have said was without it’s sole focus on opera?? Just putting that out there.</p>

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<p>My S’s BFF (female) is a soph VP major at Texas Tech and adores it. She says her voice teacher is fabulous. And she likes having the opportunities to sing in a choir, audition for musical theatre and learn great voice technique. She is planning to get a masters in music therapy. She ended up at Tech for 2 reasons 1) financial and 2) she wanted a true “college” experience w sororities and football games, etc. </p>

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<p>Thanks, @megpmom. We know one student there as well. The financial reason is definitely a reason it made the most recent cut (along with voice teacher’s recommendation). I don’t think my D is really into the whole “rah rah” scene and sororities, but it’s not a deal breaker either. Over the past couple days, I’ve been trying to visit the school websites and youtube to find samples of performances. I haven’t pulled up any from Texas Tech yet, but I’ll make sure I do soon.</p>

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<p>Eastman, Oberlin and Indiana are going to have a heavy slant toward opera, albeit with a heavy dose of art song. UNT has a great jazz voice program as well, while BW’s skyrocketing MT program is precluding the crossover that used to take place between that and the vocal performance area. Belmont offers different concentrations within voice but I’d never say that their classical voice department is considered to be strong.
As has been mentioned here, you just can’t know the bottom line cost of a school until you see the financial aid offer, but we do know the top tier schools aren’t flush with aid for voice majors (there are tons of sopranos out there) and that UNT and FSU give breaks to out of state kids with good grades.</p>

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<p>Thanks again, @MezzosMama. What do you think about the number of schools question? Any recommendations on how many is too many or too few for apps and/or auditions?</p>

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<p>@W2BeHome, I may have missed this, but is your home state TX? </p>

<p>My DS #1 went through this process last year as a prospective music performance major. This forum was enlightening, (and at times time consuming, frustrating in that it makes you question if you are doing enough and the right thing for your child.) </p>

<p>When I found this site, I felt like we were already behind, DS was not 100% committed to performance major, and actually changed his major at Thanksgiving to business (and eventually back)! A strong ACT did make a difference in academic scholarships for my DS. We felt that our instate options were strong enough for DS undergrad and if music performance surfaces as his top priority, there is grad school (or MBA school), and we still have some $ left to assist. </p>

<p>Then I realize there are as many different approaches as there are students auditioning. And with each child even in the same household, there might be varying approaches! There are lots of approaches, philosophies and opinions here. Lots of amazing resources and information. Ours was a different approach, perhaps limiting or too practical to some, but we also have siblings to consider. And retirement! </p>

<p>It was really hard to fit in many visits with lessons, but ultimately this made all the difference and cut his list down to only a few auditions (yes, possibly too few). I believe the scholarship offers reflect the fact that he visited and they not only liked his playing, but they liked him as a person, and they knew they would not have to worry about him keeping up with his academics.</p>

<p>Figure out how much time and financial resources you can commit to visits. </p>

<p>Another way to cut your list is to list the audition repertoire similarities and differences. Again, a little too practical for some, but take it or leave it!</p>

<p>AND, try to enjoy your DS’s last year of high school and the process! </p>

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<p>Thanks, @lots2do. Yes, we are currently in TX with some family (and history :wink: ) in the northeast. My d is a commended student for National Merit, and her SAT scores are up there on that level. She is a mezzo/alto. (Others have mentioned the competitive soprano field…yeah, I was one of those!). Since dh is not wanting her to take loans, I feel that it’s very important for her to explore as many schools as possible so that we can compare merit/scholarship money when the decision time comes. So, if we have to make a few trips up this winter for visits/auditions, that’s what we’ll do. There are a few schools where she could do a recorded audition because of our distance from the school, but we will use that as a last resort.</p>

<p>Re: repertoire for auditions, I’ve boiled that down to the lowest common denominator (so to speak) which means she has to have 3 pieces 3languages (one English, one Italian, and other (her teacher chose French). IUB also requires a specific song for the pre-screen, so that will be unique to that school, most likely. She has to get her pre-screens recorded by early to mid-November and start submitting them by Nov. 21.</p>

<p>I really do appreciate the experience and the knowledge others on this forum can share. But, I also I know that each of our kids has to run their own race (as the parents on the '15 board like to keep reminding each other)! </p>

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<p>I forgot with Voice, you probably have pre-screens at all or most schools on your list. Since that is the case, and if she can prepare all the repertoire, 13 may not be too many at this point in the process. I was surprised no Baylor on your list, as they offer lots of merit money to NMS and high stat kids. I think they have a page published on their site that tells exactly what students get for specific score ranges. SMU is very generous with academic $ for strong students. Meadows is generous as well and scholarships stack in almost all cases. </p>

<p>My DS got an email from UNT after applying and well before auditions offering him an $8K academic merit scholarship. Don’t recall if it was renewable annually or not. But that would cover tuition there. He ended up not auditioning there. All this may vary for Voice, but the academic merit should be similar. </p>

<p>I know nothing about the NE schools, so I will leave that to the experts. You appear to have a good plan in place and be ahead of the process. And with family in the NE, you will have places to stay for auditions!</p>

<p>For what it is worth, I agree with dh! Avoid loans. </p>

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You can definitely have a “real” college experience without football, and DEFINITELY without a greek system.

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It sounds like your daughter would be happiest in a good liberal arts school with a nice music program, a big music/vocal fish in a smaller pond. Most of the schools on your list are highly competitive. She may or may not be a fine young talent, but the competition thing goes beyond talent into the kind of other students she would have in her class, how intense their interests would be. That is another question to ask: what do her friends do, what are their interests? Music students do not tend to be all that broad in their interests, partly because there is no time for anything else. Look at Davidson, Furman, Tulane, etc. Good singers can come from any kind of program if the student is motivated and the teacher is good. Your daughter seems to have many interests, and she will need time to find her way. Good luck!