Closed classes - does it screw up your 4 years?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Emory University
1

<p>Just brought my son to Emory to start as a freshman. Everyone was upbeat at orientation and things sounded great. But then signing up for classes seemed to be screwing things up? I don't want to call the school (not that it would do any good), but it is very frustrating. He wants to go pre-med. He says he needs to take a chem class now (not sure of the course number). But all the classes for this course were closed out. And he is hearing that the bio class (141?) he did get into needs to you to take the chem concurently? So he may have to drop that class? And it's a cascading effect - if you don't take that chem course now, then other classes you take in later years either should be taken seperately (he would have to take organic chem at the same time as this chem course?) or it's a pre-requisite so he can't take other courses when he 'should'.</p>

<p>Such a good school people say, but they admit more than they can teach? Am I missing something? He says he is always checking OPUS for a spot to open up. Is that any way a reputable school should run things for core courses?</p>

2

<p>Actually, he can take biol w/o chem (they recommend chem, but in my experience, it isn’t needed. The type of chem needed for biol can just be easily picked up). It’ll be alright. If there is room in biol, and none in chem, go for biol and he’ll be alright. Also, tell your son to e-mail gen. chem profs. asking for an overload provided that spots don’t open during add/drop/swap(in those exact words or else they’ll simply tell you to wait until a/d/s is done). Also, yes it does make sense for it to run them that way as they are much smaller than our peers’ courses and they want to keep it that way for reasons that are extremely sensible. Most of intro. cores for pre-med are like 1/3-1/2 the size of counterparts at peer institutions. It makes for a richer, personalized environment. If your son fails to take one pre-med pre-req, he is not doomed/screwed to failure. Many people only take 1 pre-req frosh year and end up fine (many people take orgo. junior year for example. Notice how some of the gen. chem sections were nearly full before frosh enrollment. It’s b/c sophomores had enrolled. Needless to say, they’ll end up alright). Calm down, this is nothing to panic over.</p>

<p>As for the “admit more than they can teach”. Actually that’s not what it is. They “enrolled” more (seriously, they can admit as much as they want, but if people don’t yield…). Also, biology sections are smaller than normal this year. Normally they are capped at 92, now they are capped at 81 and one at 66. Gen. chem is smaller as well. Trust me, this is often preferred to having a `175-250 person section as at other top 20s. Whine now and thank us later. It’ll lessen the chances of your son becoming just a number to be weeded out or being exposed to watered down curriculum b/c of a section size that can’t accommodate but so much rigor, interactivity, and active learning.</p>

3

<p>Oh, my bad about chem. After checking it is the same size as normal (still 1/2 the size of peers). And the freshmen class is the same size as it was last year. Seems the only problem is that too many darned pre-meds are enrolling. Emory can’t control this. Gen. chem actually raised enrollment from 90 to 101 and then to 121-122 over the past few days across all 5 sections. I’m sure they don’t want to raise it more just to accommodate the additional pre-meds that can easily take the course next year (w/o plans being derailed. This concept is just stupid) or wait for someone to drop. However, the bio size issue stands as truth. 5 of 7 sections are currently open and I suggest your son get on it. He will be able to take the appropriate upperlevel biologies earlier but may have to take orgo. junior year which is fine.</p>

4

<p>Jason Breyan sent a letter tonight, after 3 days of classes saying they know chem is screwed up:</p>

<p>This year, we had an unexpectedly large increase in demand for Chemistry 141, more than 100 more students this year than the number enrolled in last year’s class. </p>

<p>he then goes on to say how to reassure our kids - go to this person, go to that person and:</p>

<p>ALL students who want to enroll in Chemistry will have a
place. We are working very hard to make this possible and are committed that that principle. </p>

<p>This is a crock. It’s already 3 complete days of classes. and my child and all 99+ others are running around trying to resolve this. Why does it take till the 3rd day to send this letter? How much lost time will there be at such an allegedly great school before this gets resolved? Kids are dropping 1 or 2 classes to eke into the rare chem spot that opens up, further screwing up their schedule and even becoming part timers (so much for being a part of class of 2015… all within 3 days of getting to campus. Why can’t freshmen register a week or 2 before school (just like upperclassmen) so the school can either get the heads up that they need more sections, or tell kids - sorry there are no more sections, work it out some other way. At least classes haven’t started and they aren’t jumping ship (totally screwing up their schedule if they wind up finding a chem spot) unnecessarily. You say chem can come later. Not from what I am hearing. Interesting that 1 class can have such a cascading effect on courses in later years (and even now - the bio profs are telling kids they NEED to be taking chem concurently with bio. if not, then they should drop bio). so now there’s those 2 classes they need to take later (but wait, this dean is saying now that the kids WILL get chem. So do you drop Bio? Do you sit on your hands waiting for this to be resolved? This email was the first we have heard definitively that they will get the kids into chem (might be October, but we’ll get them in. and are we supposed to be grateful? Please don’t tell me ‘they don’t have to do that, they could just say that’s all the sections there are’. I’d say so much for protecting their reputation and the kids can go to other schools if Emory doesn’t treat them fairly - and fairly is being able to take the classes they need). It’s the end of day 3. why not give a definitive answer sooner?</p>

<p>The bloom of the beautiful rose of seeing orientation and the friendly staff and students has quickly withered. There is no way I would recommend emory after this - these 3 days have been handled SO poorly. Other schools admit that kids sometimes take 5 years to graduate because they can’t get the classes they want. I don’t know if we were told otherwise or foolishly assumed otherwise but wanted to believe Emory was different? Yeah, our class size is low. Big deal. That just means that there’s loads of kids not getting the classes they need and want. Peer institutions? How many of those get kids scheduled before classes start with enough time to resolve oversubscription of certain classes? </p>

<p>Is that asking too much?</p>

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<p>We already offer more sections than other schools. Most offer like 2-3 w/275-300 (yes including top 20s). We offer 5 w/120-125. We don’t want large classes and it is difficult to predict whether or not there will be more pre-health people than the year before. They can’t just fix it on spot (many profs. are already teaching upperlevel or grad. courses, so randomly adding sections or going up on the current profs’ teaching loads would be an inappropriate solution. You also don’t want them raising enrollment to 175-200. This would suck for your son). They almost always have this amount of sections and it works. The fact that it didn’t this year is…meh, too bad. Tell them to take biology. There are like 30 spots available in one section of biology and maybe another 15-30 scattered between the other 6 sections.</p>

<p>Just leave it alone. Your son is not screwed. He and the others will be able to complete the damned pre-med requirements on time (I know several who take chem and bio sophomore year. It’s not recommended, but they make it work). You just take biol now and chem later. Problem solved. Chill.</p>

<p>Also, no one told your child to become a part timer. There are plenty of other classes freshmen can enroll in. Many “upperlevels” for example, do not require pre-reqs. These may not be in science but I’m sure many can afford to knock GERs out. Just do that and stop whining. It doesn’t really matter what school you attend. Freshmen are going to have a hard time getting “all” of the classes they want. They may have to settle for something that doesn’t look like a first choice. And who knows, that class may more than often end up being amazing while satisfying a GER. Get over this now. This is not unique to Emory. Other schools, top 20 or not, deal with this issue. You should just be lucky, chem. was willing to add any seats at all. They could have easily stuck with a cap of 90 or 100 which would suit both the students enrolled and the profs. better.</p>

<p>Also, screw what biology professors say: You DO NOT need chemistry to be successful in that course. The damned book will teach you the little trivial chemistry you need to know. They will go over it in class. Tell you son to enroll in a section of biology. They will not be able to kick him out of the course. If he does not enroll due to all of this hype about “you need chem” it will reveal his naivete. Many schools do indeed block enrollment w/o chem, but Emory does not and for good reason. It really isn’t but so chem. intensive and is more genetics intensive. Many people take that course w/no college/AP chem background and survive and thrive. I have been through orgo. and bio as a freshmen and I could tell you flat out that hardly no intense chem. background was needed for biol. My chem background had no influence on my success. Just tell him to enroll in the course and something else that takes the place of chem.</p>

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<p>Thanks for your reply. Being that you are a student it’s good (but confusing) to hear a different view. That said, and at a parent / student level we are at, it’s all just healthy debate. these things are more for faculty / administration to actually resolve</p>

<p>You said ‘They almost always have this amount of sections and it works. The fact that it didn’t this year is…meh, too bad.’</p>

<p>1) If they had kids register a week or 2 before class starts, they would know of the bump
2) ‘too bad’? You say that, but the school is not. My kid was hearing rumors that they were going to resolve it. Only after 3 days they send us an official email saying:
ALL students who want to enroll in Chemistry will have a
place. We are working very hard to make this possible and are committed that that principle. </p>

<p>That’s nice. but again, there’s 3 days of classes over already. are the kids waiting on false hopes… after 2 weeks, are they going to say 'sorry, we really wanted to, but you are all out of luck. 2 weeks of some other class they are missing. or they come through with more spaces after 2 weeks. That’s 2 weeks of this great emory education that they are missing (plus the grief of waiting).</p>

<p>Sure those other students don’t NEED to be part time. But they aren’t getting clear help / direction from faculty and staff. and again, school has started.</p>

<p>screw what biology teachers say?! Come on! They don’t know what does / doesn’t work? THey are supposed to be knowledgeable about their courses? Screw them for some things and not others? I understand it’s not a hard pre-req, but if this person you look to is knowledgeable and Emory in general is tough, why make it harder (by taking bio and not chem).</p>

<p>you say ‘I know several who take chem and bio sophomore year. It’s not recommended, but they make it work’ why not go with what IS recommended? why complicate things? Why does faculty / admin talk just about the recommended path and not offer options?</p>

<p>By the way, are you an Emory scholar? Is there resentment towards scholars? The priority scheduling and dorm assignments? While you are paying your way and they ride free, they get cultural events, extra advisors and those priorities?</p>

<p>thanks,</p>

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<p>Just to be clear, I don’t have the issue with a class getting closed out. As you say, that happens most everywhere. But: </p>

<p>if they DO want to accomodate the unknown demand, resolve the overflow quicker (and start asking what the demand is sooner)
Make the kids aware of legitimate alternate paths to pull everything together when path a is blocked (‘cause of oversubscription of a key class’). Sure, freshmen seminars are easy to resolve - take any on the list. That 1 you want is full, take a different one even if it’s not one you like. resolved. but when you are talking about career critical courses, they should help kids understand how to work around full classes or add the sections quicker.</p>

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<p>No, you would hardly know who is a scholar (if you do, you use them to get sophomore housing. Moreso useful than someone to envy. Think about it like this, a person w/lots of AP credit gets same enrollment time as scholars) And I mean what I said about the biol profs. That class has been constantly revamping itself in terms of profs. offered, lecture style, and testing style/autonomy FOREVER. We should honestly be fortunate that it’s taught a lot better and has plenty less students than our peers. I know they are authoritative figures, but you should just use judgement. The chem. necessary for the course can be easily picked up and will not be overdrilled. Your son will be fine. Tell him to enroll in biology. The situation sucks about chem, but life as a pre-med will not end because of it. Again, he’ll be fine. </p>

<p>As for bio and chem sophomore year, I don’t know why they chose that and again, I don’t recommend it. Your son should take at least 1 freshman year. Since chem is full (again, I think their attempt to resolve the issue was raising the number of seats to 120-122. I think they thought this would do the trick since it did last year when we had one less freshmen enroll than this year. They are not willing to raise it higher. Our lecture halls in the chem. and most science buildings are designed for smaller intro. intro. courses in comparison to peers. If you want a larger room like WH 208, MSci E208, or 1462 230 it will conflict w/another course meeting. These are the 3 largest lecture rooms at Emory. And needless to say, most of the time, only WH208 holds larger than normal classes. The other two hardly fill up as physics and biol courses are capped at 80-90), biology it is. Tell them to enroll in biology, they will be fine. I sometimes wonder if they mention taking gen. chem first so as to scare those away who aren’t willing to pick up trivial biochemical concepts quickly and nearly on their own…and trust me, they are trivial. I think the biology profs. underestimate us. The section gpas have slowly been creeping up anyway and there haven’t been significant changes in difficulty (only course content, which is probably harder than before 2007).</p>

<p>By the way, whether or not your son takes chem or biol, he’s in for a treat. Most of the profs. in both (though some are new) are excellent instructors. Gen. biol currently has no reputably bad profs. this semester and gen. chem never has them. This is a perfect year to take biol if you can/have to. Spell is fun. Since Passalaucqua is full, go w/Spell if you don’t want to take the risk on one of the Noobs (who I’ve heard a mixture of good and okay things about and no bad).</p>

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<p>Hello babaganoosh,</p>

<p>This is my 6th year as an Emory parent, and neither of my students has had any real trouble getting the classes they want. I think each has had one class dropped and needed to find a replacement. On the upside, I can point to language classes with only four students.</p>

<p>One of my students is an Emory Scholar, and I’ve never seen nor heard any resentment of scholars. In fact, I would say reactions have been the opposite.</p>

<p>By all means, do talk to the powers that be. My personal experience is they really want things to work out for your student.</p>

<p>I think Emory is a fabulous place, and I hope things look up for your student.</p>

<ul>
<li>Emory parent</li>
</ul>

<p>PS: Great screen name, by the way!</p>

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<p>I totally agree with babaganoosh… The process was soooo stressful to say the least. I didn’t have my schedule finalized until yesterday because none of the classes I needed were available. We were told to just show up to the classes anyway, but the prof. would kick us out. Then we were told to email, that didn’t work either. Seems to me it would make more sense to schedule classes before 1 day before classes start. I still don’t have books since I just finalized yesterday, yet I have homeworks assignments. They are also out of the Chem 141 book too! Being a new and learning all of this is hard enough, but to have all of these problems and nobody to explain it to you was horrible! I agree, all you hear is how important it is to get the pre-reqs done by sophmore year, so everybody was scrambling to try and make that happen. If there are alternatives, you don’t hear about them. My mom was screaming that I needed to take bio and chem so I tried to take both, but I would also hear I could just take 1 and be okay too depending on who you talk to. So far I love Emory, but I do think things could have been a lot less stressful if scheduling was done more 1 day before. Also, all of the orientation activities were still going on at the same time, so it made it even harder to focus on getting classes and “stalking” opus. I didn’t get the NBB class I wanted, but I picked up an HSC class that I will need later so it’s okay. I think because we are all high achieving, anal, perfectionists and the website said “TAKE THESE CLASSES” we wanted to make sure we crossed our t’s and dotted our i’s… There was really nobody telling us things would still be okay if we didn’t take those classes and that’s where the problems was. Now we can all take a deep breath and hopefully things will settle down and our professors will go easy on us the first week or two while we catch up : )</p>

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<p>Hello emorygirly,</p>

<p>If you have the same letter from Jason as quoted by babghanoosh above, I would send a “constructive” (moving forward) reply back to Jason so you know you are on his radar.</p>

<p>Dealing with parents can be tough. I’m sure my two students have their own stories on that subject.</p>

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<p>little overreacting maybe? just chill out for a minute. the first week of class is a joke anyway…</p>

13

<p>Wow…</p>

<p>Maybe you should wait longer than 3 days of a four year education to pass some form of judgment on an entire institution? </p>

<p>That diatribe was a bit ridiculous…and the purple prose in the middle was silly.</p>

14

<p>maybe it really does screw you over, at least according to Hitler lol…</p>

<p><a href=“Hitler Reacts to not getting his classes on OPUS - YouTube”>Hitler Reacts to not getting his classes on OPUS - YouTube;