<p>Anyone know about how good Pomona or CMC would be for EE? I know what you're thinking, why not HMC, well the reason is that I know I won't get into it, and CMC is a BIT easier to get into, and because I'm going to do double major in EE and finance, CMC will have a better biz program, which is why I'm interested. </p>
<p>thanks!</p>
<p>Neither Pomona nor CMC offer engineering courses, so going to either school planning to major in engineering makes no sense at all.</p>
<p>Beyond that, Pomona would be a much better choice for science related majors. CMC is highly specialized in the social sciences. It offers a limited assortment of science courses through a combined "sciences" department with Scripps and Pitzer. It's an unbelievably good school for certain social science fields, but it has virtually no science majors.</p>
<p>Because of cross-registration and similar Claremont oddities, the above post is a little misleading (not technically correct, but also not a totally accurate portrayal unless you view the schools in isolation from the rest of the consortium).</p>
<p>Both CMC and Pomona offer 3/2 engineering degrees, so <em>know</em> that going in. I know a CMC student who went CMC-->HMC on this program and I believe both schools allow for that transition as well as numerous others (some options are listed on the websites). I know a few students who've followed this course and had excellent experiences...just know that you are setting yourself up for a 5 year program. I also know/know of some students who are doing variations of what interests you...one is an econ major and an engineering minor, a few are mathematical econ students, dual math/econ, and so forth. One or two have explicitly stated their interest in financial engineering (I believe that CGU actually has a financial engineering program, but I may be incorrect). </p>
<p>And CMC, as interesteddad notes, is part of Claremont's Joint Science Department. The JSD does not offer an engineering major, but is nonetheless quite strong, with excellent grad school placement and research opps. As above, it's important to note and understand certain things like the fact that you'll be taking CMC's general ed requirements (econ, gov, etc.), but this all sounds like it's within the bounds of your interests.</p>
<p>And if you really have an interest in applying to HMC, I'd go for it. I certainly can't give you a prediction, but their admissions decisions are sometimes surprising, especially if your ECs show relevant interests/passions (and if you have the stats to be legitimately considering CMC and Pomona, then you shouldn't write yourself off so quickly).</p>
<p>So CMC/Pomona...obvious choices for engineering? No. But still good schools that can get you where you want to go? Definitely. Just know the details of the situation. You may want to get in touch with admissions and see if they could put you in contact with any engineering students.</p>
<p>cmc for engineering ? Oh God, do not go to CMC. They only teach you how to get successful in SAT tutoring business.</p>
<p>Student615:</p>
<p>Yeah, yeah, yeah. Every liberal arts college in America has a 3/2 program. And virtually nobody does them for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that you have pay for five years of college to get a 4-year degree.</p>
<p>It's simple really. If you want to major in engineering, go to a school that offers engineering. There are plenty of them to choose from, even a few LACs.</p>
<p>As for majoring in science at CMC, again why? I mean you could probably major in art history at MIT if you cross registered for enough courses at Wellesley, but there aren't going to be a lot of art history majors at MIT. Same deal with the sciences at CMC. There are, relatively speaking, almost no science majors. It would be like going to Mudd to major in political science. Doh.</p>
<p>Again, it's all about fit. If you want to major in Chemistry, go to a college that has a Chemistry department and Chemistry professors and Chemistry majors and stuff like that there. This is pretty basic college selection stuff. It</p>
<p>
[quote]
The JSD does not offer an engineering major, but is nonetheless quite strong, with excellent grad school placement and research opps.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The schools participating in joint science department produce very low percentages of students going on to advanced grad school degrees in math, science, and engineering.</p>
<p>For example, look the percentage of total grads getting a PhD in math, science, and engineering over the most recent 10 year period.</p>
<p>Harvey Mudd is obviously a power house in this area, #2 in the country, with 23.5% of its grads going on to get a PhD in those fields. No surprise there. </p>
<p>Quite a few LACs, including Pomona, are very high on this list. Here's the top 60 with LACs indicated in bold:</p>
<p>
**Percentage of grads getting PhDs**</p>
<p>Academic field: All Engineering, Hard Science, and Math</p>
<p>PhDs and Doctoral Degrees:
ten years (1994 to 2003) from NSF database</p>
<p>Number of Undergraduates:
ten years (1989 to 1998) from IPEDS database</p>
<p>Note: Does not include colleges with less than 1000 graduates over the ten year period</p>
<p>1 34% California Institute of Technology<br>
2 ** 24% Harvey Mudd College **
3 16% Massachusetts Institute of Technology<br>
4 ** 10% Reed College **
5 9% Rice University
6 ** 8% Swarthmore College **
7 8% Princeton University<br>
8 ** 7% Carleton College **
9 7% New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology<br>
10 7% University of Chicago<br>
11 7% Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute<br>
12 7% Case Western Reserve University
13 6% Harvard University<br>
14 6% Carnegie Mellon University<br>
15 6% Johns Hopkins University<br>
16 ** 6% Haverford College **
17 ** 6% Grinnell College **
18 6% Cornell University, All Campuses<br>
19 ** 5% Kalamazoo College **
20 5% Stanford University
21 5% Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
22 5% Yale University
23 5% Cooper Union<br>
24 ** 5% Oberlin College **
25 ** 5% Lawrence University **
26 ** 5% Bryn Mawr College **
27 ** 5% Williams College **
28 ** 5% Pomona College **
29 4% Colorado School of Mines<br>
30 ** 4% Bowdoin College **
31 ** 4% Earlham College **
32 4% Brown University<br>
33 4% University of Rochester
34 4% University of California-Berkeley<br>
35 ** 4% Wabash College **
36 4% Duke University
37 4% Worcester Polytechnic Institute
38 ** 4% Amherst College **
39 4% Stevens Institute of Technology
40 ** 4% St Olaf College **
41 ** 4% Hendrix College **
42 ** 4% Beloit College **
43 4% University of Missouri, Rolla<br>
44 4% University of California-San Francisco<br>
45 ** 4% Occidental College **
46 4% Alfred University, Main Campus<br>
47 ** 4% Allegheny College **
48 ** 4% Whitman College **
49 ** 4% College of Wooster **
50 4% SUNY College of Environmental Sci & Forestry<br>
51 ** 4% Mount Holyoke College **
52 ** 4% Bates College **
53 4% College of William and Mary
54 ** 4% Knox College **
55 ** 3% Franklin and Marshall College **
56 3% Georgia Institute of Technology, Main Campus<br>
57 3% Washington University<br>
58 3% Long Island University Southampton Campus<br>
59 ** 3% Macalester College **
60 3% University of California-San Diego
</p>
<p>Scripps is the first JSD college on the list, at #385 with 0.85% of its grads getting math, science, and engineering PhDs. CMC is #459 on the list with 0.71%. Pitzer is #533 with 0.59%. These three are all great schools; they just aren't science and engineering oriented schools.</p>
<p>Occidental offers joint degree program with Cal Tech and students can also take other courses at Cal Tech- AS Per Occidental's Web Site
"California Institute of Technology (Caltech)
As a full-time student at Occidental, you can take courses at Caltech in applied science, astronomy, engineering, or other fields not taught here. While the program is usually not open to first-year students, you receive full credit for all courses taken. No additional tuition payments are required. Caltech is just 10 minutes away in Pasadena."</p>
<p>interesteddad said:</p>
<p>"As for majoring in science at CMC, again why? I mean you could probably major in art history at MIT if you cross registered for enough courses at Wellesley, but there aren't going to be a lot of art history majors at MIT. Same deal with the sciences at CMC. There are, relatively speaking, almost no science majors. It would be like going to Mudd to major in political science. Doh."</p>
<p>Um, no its not. Harvey Mudd does not offer a joint political science program. You seem to be selling short the unique approach of the Claremont consortium and its ability to offer combined resources and curriculum at a very high level. While it is true that poli sci majors far outnumber science majors at CMC, the latter are present in sufficient number and along with similarly situated students at Pitzer and Scripps participate in a highly regarded program. CMCs success at placing their science majors in med schools, for instance, is noteworthy, as illustrated in the often alluded to Wall Street journal article addressing undergraduate schools and their ability to place students in the top graduate schools. The absolute numbers may be relatively small but the percentages are far superior to any of the science-centric UCs. </p>
<p>While it is always good advice to seek out institutions that serve your projected interests, it is too easy for students to reach flawed conclusions based on hearsay. Fortunately, my son and I were able to attend some lectures at the Claremont joint science program and speak with students and faculty before we made this very personal decision.</p>
<p>The question was CMC or Pomona. </p>
<p>The Joint Sciences Department only graduates about 50 majors per year, combined between all of CMC, Scripps, and Pitzer.</p>
<p>Compare that to 80+ science majors from Pomona alone. Not a huge number, but enough to have its own separate Bio, Chemistry, and Physics departments.</p>
<p>It's not a knock on CMC. The Joint Sciences Department is fine as combined Bio, Chem, and Physics departments go. But, if you know up front that you want to major in science...or especially engineering....why would you pick a school with so little emphasis on science, when there are 4000+ colleges and universities to choose from? What am I missing?</p>
<p>Actually, the original question concerned CMC or Pomona for engineering. I was responding to your comparison between Mudd and CMC.</p>
<p>I think there are actually advantages to choosing a less populated major at a given school, assuming that the resources and faculty remain top drawer. I was pre-med in the UC system and it wasnt pretty. Auditorium lectures with a cast of hundreds. Professors with the approachability of a black hole. Cut-throat competition at the highest levels of nerdiness. At CMC my son will be surrounded by students with varied interests and will not have to take a number when research opportunities are parceled out. He could have majored in science at any UC. I think he made the right choice.</p>
<p>
[quote]
It would be like going to Mudd to major in political science. Doh.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Hey, actually I am probably majoring in political science and I do go to Mudd. The consortium allows for relatively easy off-campus double majoring. </p>
<p>To the OP, if engineering would be your 2nd major (the one you like a little less), then you could always double major at Mudd. However, this would be EXTREMELY hard. The requirements for me to offcampus double major at Pomona is only nine classes. The requirements for you to offcampus double major at Mudd would be tons of classes. It would be much better for you to just minor in engineering. If you can't accept that then you probably should not come to the consortium.</p>
<p>A second major is a horse of a diffferent color. Tell the truth, now. If Political Science were your first (or only) major and you knew that before choosing a college, would Harvey Mudd have been your first choice?</p>
<p>"Yeah, yeah, yeah. Every liberal arts college in America has a 3/2 program. And virtually nobody does them for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that you have pay for five years of college to get a 4-year degree."</p>
<ul>
<li>I know multiple people who are taking advantage of the program. Yes, many schools have them. No, the majority of students do not partake. But they are THERE, so if a student really wants to go to a non-engineering school (CMC, for example), then the student should not have to give that desire up solely b/c the school lacks its own engineering department (provided that the student fully understands the situation). I was torn between two majors when I chose Claremont, and had I chosen engineering, I would have been a 3/2 student myself, and YES, I would have chosen the school that I did. To me, the availability of the program was very important, regardless of how often it was utilized.</li>
</ul>
<p>"It's simple really. If you want to major in engineering, go to a school that offers engineering. There are plenty of them to choose from, even a few LACs."</p>
<ul>
<li>As you say yourself, it's about fit. If you FIT at a school that lacks its own program, but still has the capability to get you where you want to go, then why on Earth not even ask questions?</li>
</ul>
<p>"As for majoring in science at CMC, again why?"</p>
<ul>
<li>Because you like CMC and it has other things to offer you, such as strong finance and business programs/resources (not to even be semi-redundant and mention the fact that the JSD, despite its relatively small size, is a strong program with excellent grad placement and undergrad research opps).</li>
</ul>
<p>"Again, it's all about fit."</p>
<ul>
<li>You said it...</li>
</ul>
<p>As a previous poster pointed out, I think you're undervaluing the consortium as well as overvaluing absolute numbers. Yes, Scripps, Pitzer, and CMC each send fewer students than HMC and Pomona on to PhD programs in the maths and sciences. For one thing, the OP didn't ask only about CMC...(s)he asked about Pomona AND CMC. Furthermore, these absolute numbers don't tell much of a story. Another question to ask is how many interested JSD students go on to PhD programs, and how they fare there. No, this isn't the only question...I realize that yours has value, as well...but they're both important. I know JSD students accepted or headed to many, many of the top grad programs in their fields (including Oxford, Harvard, and CalTech). It's only anecdotal info, but they're not particularly unique situations. A small program does not necessarily equal a weak one (although the exact details of this claim have been debated to death elsewhere).</p>
<p>I think that the OP needs to be AWARE that CMC/Pomona do not have engineering programs of their own and that (s)he will be limited to a 3/2 program or some other likely atypical situation. My point is not to say "You want to major in engineering? Yeah, it makes perfect sense to go to these schools...it'll be awesome!" My point is to say "You really want to go to these schools, but you want to study engineering? Well, yeah...technically, that's just fine, but do your research." </p>
<p>So in direct response to the OP: Neither CMC nor Pomona would be good for EE. It doesn't exist there. But they would be good for lots of other things, and you would not be prevented from pursuing EE (and FYI, many engineering degrees, 3/2 or otherwise, are 5 year tracks. Not all, by any means, but it's definitely not abnormal).</p>
<p>
[quote]
A second major is a horse of a diffferent color. Tell the truth, now. If Political Science were your first (or only) major and you knew that before choosing a college, would Harvey Mudd have been your first choice?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>No, but I was definitely interested in majoring in Political Science before I came here. I knew that offcampus majoring would be relatively easy. A lot of the freshmen that I know seem to want to double major with one of the majors being offcampus. The high Mudd humanities requirements make it so that students can basically get another degree for just two extra classes or so beyond the requirements.</p>