CMU or NYU?

<p>OK, I'll chime in.
ONe of my students just graduated this year from CAP 21, having entered as a freshman in Strausberg. She claims that the Steinhart kids don't get enough acting training and it shows in the school productions and showcases. Just her opinion of course, but worth noting.</p>

<p>ALso, Tisch is very frank about their lack of endowment for merit scholoarships of any kind. ALthough Susan's dudghter did very well, that is not the norm. They told me that they are considered a younger institution (Hrd to believe) compared to Julliard, and most $$ for endowments in the New York area goes there.</p>

<p>chrisnoo, the vocal performance program is in Steinhardt at NYU, not Tisch. It would not be possible to get into that program if you are not accepted into CAP21. At NYU, you may only apply to one college and if you are not accepted, you cannot re-apply for at least one year. This is true of every NYU program. I'd also like to say that it is not generally a good idea to try to get into one program at NYU with the intention of transferring to another, especially CAP21. Internal transfers are very rare into Tisch, especially into the CAP21 studio. </p>

<p>MaryAnna, I'd have to disagree with your student as to any lack of acting talent on the part of Steinhardt kids. Having seen several of their productions, there are some incredibly talented kids there. Their production of Ragtime a couple of years ago got rave reviews in the NYC theatre community, including from Stephen Flaherty, Lynn Ahrens and E.L. Doctorow all of whom attended. The reviews in the city papers and theatre websites were uniformly gushing. They don't get the intensive acting classes that Tisch drama students do but that's to be expected because it is a Bachelor of Music in Steinhardt, and the curriculum is music-based. I'm not really sure how large corporations decide to whom to donate funds, but Juilliard's drama program is only two years older than Tisch's. Juilliard certainly has greater name recognition and it's also a much smaller school so the funds they do receive, can go further than at Tisch. :)</p>

<p>My intention is not to turn this discussion into an argument, but I have to come down on Mary Anna's student's side on the discussion of the quantity of the acting (and dance) training offered as part of the BM MT concentration at Steinhardt. Please note that I specifically said QUANTITY, not QUALITY. Never having taken a class there, it would be unfair to judge the quality of the training by what we have seen in performance. As Alwaysamom notes, I'm sure there are many talented students there but how much "value-added" training in acting and dance the program has given them is impossible for an outsider to judge. But I do have some anecdotal information to support my concerns.</p>

<p>When my D was looking at Steinhardt in '03-'04, we saw their production of "A New Brain" which I was enormously impressed with, especially from a vocal standpoint. If you know the show, however, I think you might agree that the vocal demands of that show far outweigh the acting demands. After her audition in November, the MT department at Steinhardt showed some real interest in having my D come there and as such personally invited us to be their guests at several other productions. We were still quite interested in Steinhardt so we gratefully took them up on this generous invitation. We saw a small VP, black box production in December, sort of a chamber opera and we also went to see "Ragtime" in February. Despite what we heard were the rave reviews received by this production from the NYU community, we were both hugely disappointed by what we saw. The staging was well done but I have to tell you that the dance (more choreographed movement actually) and acting were not much better than some high school shows we've seen. Some of the voices were memorable but even there the performances were quite uneven. This is perhaps due to the fact that these shows are all cast with a mix of undergrad and graduate MT's and the occasional VP student. When we had met privately with the MT chair before seeing these last two productions, we went over the MT curriculum with him (he's a terrific guy, by the way - we all really liked him and respected how honest he was with us) and questioned what we perceived to be real shortcomings in both the acting and dance offerings of the curriculum. He reminded us, as has been pointed out here before, that this is a BM with a concentration in MT, not a BFA. As such, it is probably the closest thing to what several people in this forum have expressed an interest in - an undergraduate program that offers a quasi-MT degree focused primarily on vocal performance. It seems to do that quite well. Steinhardt grads probably rank exceedingly high in overall musicianship, but if you want a balanced, well-rounded MT program, I would say that there are other programs to put ahead of Steinhardt on your list.</p>

<p>theatermom, different opinions are good in a discussion and shouldn't necessarily be construed as argument. :) The reason I commented was that I think it's important to remember that different programs have different focusses and Steinhardt's MT program is in the school of music so it's obviously not going to have the acting focus that Tisch would have. It wouldn't be possible for their students to have the depth of acting training that those in Tisch receive, just as the reverse would be true for Tisch students and music classes. That really was my reason for posting. (Another thing to remember is that this type of comment from students is fairly common when discussing Steinhardt and Tisch with students in each program, as there seems to be a fairly strong rivalry between the two MT programs, especially this year with disputes over performance venues, etc.) I would just like to comment, though, on Ragtime. It wasn't just the NYU community which gave the show rave reviews. There were reviews, both print and online, by theatre critics in the city who are not NYU affiliated, who thought the show was wonderful, as did, as I said, Ahrens, Flaherty, and Doctorow themselves. </p>

<p>Having said that, no show is going to be universally liked by everyone. Even the most popular shows on Broadway have knowledgeable people who have opposing opinions. Wicked is a good example of this. It reminds me of the discussion here about The Light in the Piazza which so many loved. Yet, I have two friends who do casting for Telsey who didn't enjoy the show at all with the exception of Victoria Clark's performance. I guess it is these types of vagaries which make me love live theatre. Every performance is somewhat unique and there's always the possibility if you don't enjoy a show the first time you see it, that you'll enjoy it the next. :)</p>

<p>Alwaysamom,</p>

<p>I couldn't agree more about the fact that there will always be people who love a show just as much as others are disappointed in it. My point in posting my observations of the training offered at Steinhardt and Tisch are simply to share what we've learned in an attempt to help others assess which programs might meet better their individual needs and preferences. As you noted, neither Tisch nor Steinhardt are recognized as providing as balanced an emphasis on all three disciplines as perhaps some of the other programs that have been discussed here. Vocal training at Tisch is often cited as being less strong than its acting (Tisch students do not have access to NYU voice or music faculty), while Steinhardt, while offering superior music and vocal training doesn't offer (or pretend to offer) the amazing acting training afforded to Tisch students. But this is all nit picking, like arguing the difference between a GPA of 3.9 and 4, as both programs are demonstrably capable of turning out some of the brightest talents in the business. And of course, given the quality and reputation of these programs and the odds of admission anywhere, students should feel enormously proud to be accepted at either of these programs.</p>

<p>I took my family to see "A Chorus Line" which Steinhardt delivered last winter (?)
and the dancing was the original choreography, and it was done superbly. I thought the acting was also good, especially a few of the leads, but not many vocals stood out, if you can believe it! The show as a whole, however, was very well done. We also saw "Parade", performed again by Steinhardt, and it was EXCELLENT. Vocals and acting, not much dancing, of course. Then we saw "Grand Hotel" put on by mostly CAP21 students and were very disappointed; probably more in the show than in the performances. Some students were very good, but no one "blew me away". We also saw "Smile" put on by mostly CAP21'ers and the vocals were pretty good; the acting and dancing, however, were SUPERB. There was not one weak actor in the bunch! This is just my opinion, though; theater is subjective, as you know. BTW, my d is going to CAP and was wondering why she didn't apply to Steinhardt after seeing both of their productions! Gulp!</p>

<p>My friends dad is on the faculty at NYU (nothing big , im acutally not sure what he does). In March or April he got me and my friend tickets to see Pirates of Pensanze (sp?) . It was very good and the leads were phenominal in voice and acting. Does anyone know which studio put that on? I think one of the boys playing one of the leads was off to do something on B'way after his year at NYU.</p>

<p>i don't know who put it on, but I wish I'd seen it!</p>

<p>The girl and guy lead were amazing. The girls range was so high. I think these kids might have been NYU Grad. students but I'll check it out and report back.
Edit: NYU’s Program in Vocal Performance in the Steinhardt School recently presented The Pirates of Penzance, one of the most popular works of W.S. Gilbert and Arthur Sullivan, which has delighted audiences around the world since its premiere over 125 years ago.
The NYU production was directed by faculty member William Wesbrooks, with music direction by faculty member Grant Wenaus. The cast and orchestra featured students ranging from undergraduates to Ph.D. candidates.</p>

<p>Does anyone know what NYU is doing next year in terms of musicals? I know other schools have posted their season already, but I can't seem to find NYU's. Thx!</p>

<p>hey everyone! i'm going to be in NYC visiting nyu tisch and steinhardt, julliard, mannes school of music, and manhattan school of music from 8/8 to 8/12. can you all think of any questions that i should remember to ask while i get the chance? i mean, i'll have my own list, just curious what you think. i know that with my background in music that i'd probably be happier at steinhardt, but tisch cap21 is like...possibly the most elite music theatre program in the country (for it's location and rep) since i can only apply to one place, which is the better bet? and and if i go to steinhardt for a year and decide i don't like it or just that i'd like cap21 better, can i then apply to cap21, and if i do, do i have to drop out of steinhardt first? umm...i guess i'm just getting nervous-having trouble forming complete sentences (lol) anywho...just keep commenting, it's helping so much in my college search.. really.</p>

<p>hi again. i'm also going to be visiting northwestern in chicago on 8/12, i think i marked the date wrong on my last post...i'm leaving nyc 8/11. anyway, i bought a hotel/theatre package for wicked on that friday night (8/12) and i'm going to be there alone and need to sell the ticket. i'd like to get 120 for it, but would consider a best offer type thing. so, anyone interested who will be in the chicago area around august 12th should hit me up...you don't need to pay me a cent until i hand you the ticket in chicago, i would just like to be able to pay my parents back a little for this trip they're sending me on. thanks so much! get back to me ASAP!</p>

<p>my personal email is XXXXXXXXXXXX but i'll be out of town for the next week so my cell # is XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX (please don't abuse, not that any of you would) but definitely give me a call if you want the ticket!</p>

<p>well...scratch that... i'd ask you all to PM me but i'm leaving tomorrow on a youth trip and the day i get back i'm leaving on a road tour of a few colleges and the day after i get back from that i'm flying to nyc to begin the afore mentioned school tour....so, sorry if you actually were interested cuz now there's no way for you to get in touch with me in time. keep posting about my college choices though...still very undecided (torn between my tops)</p>

<p>The same information can be shared, just not posted. All that posters need to do is click on your name, email you and you can exchange your phone number in email. You can still do that and check your email on the days you come home between trips. We have rules about posting email addresses (but have an email function for you to use) and we certainly believe that the posting of personal phone numbers is not safe and is better left to private exchanges via email or private message.</p>

<p>Theatermom, I just thought I should clarify something...</p>

<p>You said "Tisch students do not have access to NYU voice or music faculty," but this isn't true. Tisch students may register for private voice lessons (at an extra cost--perhaps this is what you meant?) through Tisch, and, though I'm not as sure about this one, through Steinhardt as well. As far as I know, it's also possible for students from all schools to take certain music lessons, such as guitar, through NYU as (usually) 2-point electives. </p>

<p>As for the OPs question. I think it's difficult to declare one school "better" as a whole, because it's very much a personal choice. I was looking more for a program in which I could keep up with other interests (Politics, Philosophy, etc.) as well as conservatory drama training. If, however, you want a program that is almost exclusively practical training, the "better" school would be different. The same definitely goes with location-- Pittsburgh will undoubtedly give you more of a "college" atmosphere if that is important to you. New York gives opportunities such as internships with the industry in the city as part of your advanced training, etc, but people often complain that it lacks the "college" feeling. </p>

<p>I also wanted to echo Musicman's sentiment-- this board was absolutely wonderful during my year of confusion, especially coming from a different country with a very different system. Thanks to everyone for their time and patience and advice, you are all fantastic.</p>

<p>Hi September,</p>

<p>Glad you're happy with your choice - that's what it's all about!</p>

<p>And yes, you are correct. I was referring to the regular faculty available to Tisch students. Tisch teachers are all employed by the individual studios for whom they work. These studios are paid to provide the Tisch training as subcontractors of NYU. When you are paying upwards of 40K a year, many people take exception to having to pay for private instruction with the faculty of the university you are supposedly a part of. Steinhardt faculty ARE NYU faculty as Steinhardt contains the Music School of NYU and students work with these teachers without having to pay additional money. However, many Steinhardt students do decide to take (and must pay for) additional dance instruction in private NYC dance studios to supplement the less intense training available to them as part of the Steinhardt curriculum.</p>

<p>Theatermom, just a clarification here regarding Tisch faculty, as it may not be clear to those students who are just in the application process. Tisch has close to 300 faculty members in the drama department, some of whom are employed at the drama studios which provide the conservatory training at Tisch. By no means are "all" Tisch teachers employed by the studios. Here's a link to those of you still researching programs. It's an interesting look at Tisch's faculty, their bios, experience, etc. </p>

<p><a href="http://drama.tisch.nyu.edu/page/faculty.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://drama.tisch.nyu.edu/page/faculty.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Just a quick comment re: voice. My son (in Tisch, Playwrights) took private voice as an elective each semester of his freshman year with a Tisch faculty member. This was a 2-credit course, (giving him a total of 18 credits each semester).</p>

<p>jasmom, my D did the same, as did many of her friends who are in studios other than CAP21.</p>