My DD has an admission to CNU, which is an in-state college for us. We are aware of the concerns around CNU around accreditation, and are trying to educate ourselves more about it. CNU being for-profit is in itself not a concern, but there is concern around clerkship options and stability. Given the uncertainty of getting into medical college, and DD’s resolve to get into medicine, she’s evaluating CNU’s 2+4 option thoroughly. Would folks here know if California medical colleges options have state-affinity for residency? i.e., if someone did well in USMLE and MCAT, would CNU MD’s stand a higher chance of getting into residencies in California because the medical school is in California in spite of questionable reputation of CNU (which could improve in a few years)?
Residency programs are a whole different animal than med school admission. There is no such thing as an in-state preference for residency programs. It’s a national process with the actual residency matching done by a computer program that is overseen by the NRMP.
The process and match algorithm is explained here: [How the Match Algorithm Works](http://www.nrmp.org/match-process/match-algorithm/)
Matching into a residency is so much more than just having good USMLE scores. If you want to see what PDs value in residency applicants when choosing who to interview, read this: [Results of the 2016 NRMP Program Director Survey](http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/NRMP-2016-Program-Director-Survey.pdf)
In addition, to all the academic and other factors listed in the survey, “fit” is a primary consideration when PDs make up rank lists.
Please note that the vast majority of medical residencies located in the state of California are NOT at UC programs. They are located at community-based hospitals and clinics. Academic residencies (i.e. those at medical school based hospitals) are more competitive than community residency programs and harder to match into.
The problem I see at CNU is that it does not have its own affiliated hospital. Rotations, will have to be from other institutions. As first year medical school, the ability of the school administrators is critical to make appropriate arrangements. I saw this happens in DO schools and the students getting good rotation is one of the selection criteria.
Thank you @artloversplus !
Is there a way to find out how CNU’s current batch of Med students did in USMLE tests? I guess we won’t know about their clinical rotations till the first batch goes through it. Would that be next year? Wish some of CNU’s students would speak up. I see them active on SDN but not on CC.
No. First, CNU had its first class of med students enter this past fall. Med students won’t take the STEP 1 until the end of second year or later. (At some schools students take it at the end of MS3) So the earliest they would sit for it would be late spring/summer/fall 2018.
Second, USMLE scores are not released publicly–only to individual test taker and to the school’s Dean. (So there’s never any way to verify if any school’s announcement about average USMLE score is actually accurate.)
Also realize that STEP scores are more a reflection of individual effort than of the quality of a school’s academics and usually there is a wide variation in scores among any group of individual students
Thank you @WayOutWestMom - trying to assess how the school is doing overall. Looks like anyone’s guess right now, and thus a gamble. Thank you also for the valuable info on residency you shared earlier.
Also, if I’m reading the program structure correctly, there is no guarantee of a med school admission in the BS/MD program since you have to “pass the interview” which allows them to arbitrarily keep any student out that they want.
Thank you for pointing that out @iwannabe_Brown. I will check with them during the open house on what this means.
Is this the med school with tuition at around $100k per year?
T&F for BS is 32K per year, and MD is $60K per year.
But CNU’s med school is not eligible for federal loans and its administration has refused to apply for fed loan eligibility. So students at CNUCOM must rely on private loans.
@mom22dds As we discussed in BS/MD program thread, please review all facts and take a hard look before you commit for CNU. Was there an interview or no interview so far? If there was an interview, who did it, is it only UG school or MD school office also in the process. It appears they gave acceptance with minimal review and asking students to sign up so early.
Though every program is technically ‘conditional’ guarantee (other wise students will be having their own fun time in UG), those conditions are very normal and expected and it differs from school to school.
For example, in OU (where my D attends), still she has to apply to AMCAS application (some code to check to indicate it is for OU BS/MD, some thing like that - I don’t know clearly) with recommendations and need to score on or above the previous year average GPA (3.8) and MCAT (old 31/32) score on the year she will be joining MD school. But it is clearly documented that there will not be any interview because for BS/MD admission, she was interview by a committee which had both UG program office director/prof, MD school admissions director and a MD school physician etc., So the acceptance is given not by UG school alone, rather it is a combined acceptance by UG and MD school. Based on previous post by Brown CNU is not in the same situation. It is not encouraging what WOWM post regarding fed loan. It is expensive and will come close to $300k for MD and $200k for UG.
Last year as a parent I spent 30 minutes reviewing their web site and felt totally uncomfortable and asked my D and she told she is fine to go thru normal route if she is not selected for any BS/MD and we did not even apply for CNU though we are just 80 miles from CNU location.
Lack of depth with the BS./MD program at CNU is more of a concern. If the student later found he/she is no longer interested in medicine or not interest to become a Doctor, there is no where to go in CNU but transfer to a regular college to complete the BS. Where in any other BS/MD program, you actually could get a BS in some discipline other than health filed and if you change your mind you could develop an employable specialty such as Engineering, Computer Science, Teaching Certificate in education and such.
In addition, at CNU, you have no choice of other subjects in your electives other than health related to develop an interest in another field.
Yeah, sorry, didn’t mean to imply that any requirements is a red flag - just that any requirement that isn’t objective (eg GPA, MCAT) at a for profit school seems a bit fishy to me.
Thank you all. It seems like CNU is not guaranteed BS/MD if an interview is involved. Those that have such interview requirements clearly cal out that these are not early acceptance programs. I don’t see such language in CNU’s material, so a bit confused about it. It gives the perception of guaranteed program but seems to be just a pathway program, which is very different from BSMD program. We will ask during the Open House.
We went to the open house yesterday, met a couple of other CollegeConfidential parents there.
The President of CNU opened the day with a short talk.Dean of COM was there for the whole tour and was very informative. His responses to the unending questions (from parents mostly) was commendable. There were series of talks by the school administration, followed by open discussions in break out groups. Then there was an optional COM tour that many attended.
The program seems guaranteed. (per COM Dean: if someone maintained 3.5 GPA and 510 MCAT, they have to totally screw up in the interview to not get into COM.) I felt the administration was trustworthy, no gimmicks or tricks. They offer an education that leads to an MD with a focus on academics, which would likely result in a family practice for most students. However, they encourage research, and 2 of their current students got into prestigious NHIS scholarship/research internships (one in Columbia University). They provide clinical rotations with Kaiser and Dignity, and have partnership being finalized with some hospitals in southern California. they fully support kids doing clinical rotations outside of what they offer, and in whatever specialization they choose. I don’t know if all medical schools are this accommodating, but CNU is driven by their motivation to help the first batches of their students succeed well.
Size: small college, might have limited resources, especially COM - I haven’t seen other med schools, so can’t compare properly. BS was two floors in one building and COM was just one floor in another building 30 minutes away. I was surprised at how small the medical college was, it is just one floor of a commercial building. Two mannequins available in simulation center. Control patients used for first two years of COM are not real (other students mostly). Some parents were concerned by this, others said it is pretty standard in other hospitals too. Few students/parents were pretty put off by the size and said they decided not to enroll. Few parents on the tour were doctors, and they didn’t seem to flinch. One of them said they felt capable they could bridge any gaps in the anatomy skills and were going to send their DC there. Campuses are not close, and there is very little to no contact between COM and BS students. However, CNU Pre-med students take anatomy classes in COM in summer. The students likely get the cadavers after the medical school is done with them, but getting real anatomy experience all summer during undergrad seems like a plus.
No dorms. This was the main disappointing part for my DD. She is feeling conflicted about missing out on college life. She sounded better after the open house where she spent a lot of time with the other potential students and liked the crowd. She said the positive aspect of this BS/MD program is that the student community is not and will not be cut-throat as there is no need for anyone to pull anyone else down. She felt she’d have the most collaborative peers in this program because of this, and also warmed up to the idea of a small cohort where she’d know everyone. Her comment as we drove away was ‘I might actually have time for some college life, friends I can trust and profs that want me to succeed - so CNU is still on my list.’ That said, we can see not having a dorm is still not acceptable for her.
As I said, BSMD program seems guaranteed. Not a gimmick to get students in and then weed them to keep them out from MD qualification. Healthy set of students (60%) have 3.75+ GPA, and 80% have 3.25 GPA. At the same time, students will not be able to maintain the 3.5 GPA minimum (which is pretty reasonable requirement) unless they work hard. there are struggling students that are working with the professors to get themselves on track. The general comment was to get into 2-yr program only if you can handle very high load, otherwise go to 3 yr program. We talked to current students (all were local, wish they had some students that lived on their own), and they indicated the same. I didn’t get to listen to them, but if I remember right, I think one of them said it was very tough because he took the 2-yr, but he was going to stick with it rather than move to 3-yr.
Hope that helps.
@Mom2DDs
Be aware that Kaiser is opening is own med school in 2019. Based upon statements on the Kaiser med school site and earlier newspaper articles, any Kaiser rotation sites will be reserved exclusively for their own med students once the med school opens.
There are 3 new medical schools scheduled to open in California within the next 2-4 years so there is going to be lots of competition on finding acceptable clinical rotation sites.
FWIW, at most med schools, MS1-2 students have access to standardized patients (specially trained actors), simulation mannequins (we have 6 full body sims at our local CC) AND actual human patients.
The CC uses sims in lieu of cadaver dissection/prosection to teach human anatomy for health paraprofessional students (LPN, EMT) and high schoolers.
At the med school, medical students dissect human cadavers in MS1 anatomy. Nursing and PT students also use human cadavers in their anatomy classes.
Although sims have their place in medical education, be aware that the exclusive use of sims is controversial at best.
Has anyone asked what happen if the student cannot maintain a 3.5 GPA? Also, its a big gap between 3.75 and 3.25 and only 20% of the students fall into that category?