Cold Feet /Buyers Remorse for expensive U?

Parents Forum
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<p>Kat,</p>

<p>SJU tuition and fees is 38,960 but room and board are also 12K adding to the difference.</p>

<p>Our EFC is 28,000. </p>

<p>DD has not expressed interest in grad school but if her major changes, who knows.</p>

<p>Initially she did not take a strong liking to WCU but our last visit there was good and the CJ program seems very strong. She had pretty well settled on that being her best option as the others were likely going to be too expensive.</p>

<p>I do not think any of us expected SJU to make as strong an offer as they did, since there initial merit scholarship was only 15K and other schools were giving more. Since our EFC was not very low, I did not expect a big change when we got the FA package, but was surprised to see they offered an additional 11.1K plus 3.5 in subsidized loans. </p>

<p>For WCU I was think we could cover the cost minus Federal loans so for SJU we would need to borrow more, but hopefully not the entire 8,500. I’m hoping my SO will be able to work more hours, she is part time now, so that we could cover at least half. I do not want US, DD and parents, to go over 40K in debt, including fed loans.</p>

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<p>So your question was “is it worth the additional $8500 per year for St. Joe’s?” On top of what you would pay for WCU?</p>

<p>So the total for St Joe’s is?</p>

<p>In my opinion and it is just mine, comparing the cost of the same degree in our area for $900 per semester plus the $5000 for 2 years…HECK NO!</p>

<p>But again it is just my opinion. As a single mom of 5 kiddos who moved 3000+miles across the country so the kids would have more affordable undergraduate and graduate options from CA to NC I am all about VALUE.</p>

<p>Mine have attended community colleges, military service academies, OOS publics, in-state publics and an ivy. With outside scholarships, college scholies, and grants, employment, research funds…whatever it took. $38K + $12K= $50K PER YEAR for a criminal justice degree would not be a good value UNLESS there was a full tuition scholie attached and then some! I would have advised my kiddos to apply early and widely to ALL options, and then chose the best fit and value. Searching for any and all monies, especially merit.</p>

<p>Mine used this for grad school as well.</p>

<p>You wanted to know our opinions on what it is worth…my measuring stick is value…what is yours?</p>

<p>Kat</p>

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<p>The reality is most schools experience a degree of “shrinkage” between May 1 commitments and Fall’s freshman enrollment. So if you really really really want to explore the local state college one more time, do so. But be sure to compare “apples to apples”, and flag shortcomings. Be sure to consider all factors, not just cost, including relative likelihood of 4-year graduation, ability to enroll in desired classes, on-campus vs off-campus housing, job placement network, etc. Likely the private LAC would graciously let you off the hook if you asked to do so. But be aware, if your daughter does switch to a local state school, you and/or she may later feel more remorse yet, because you’re really talking about a “apples to oranges” scenario.</p>

<p>Here in our locale, a true match of in-state (even mega-large flagship) public schools and a high-quality private LAC is simply not possible. Our non-flagship schools tend to be academically lackluster party schools (Eastern, Western, Northern, Southern, Northeastern, etc.) Furthermore, our flagship university is both compartively expensive, somewhat difficult to gain admission, and it can be difficult to obtain your major, your classes, and/or a 4-year graduation. Plenty of kids at our state schools take 5-years or more to graduate, which adds another year (or more) of tuition/housing/food/fees/misc. not usually considered by parents when first making that college selection.</p>

<p>Also, for some kids, the mega-large flagship is truly just a bad fit. Some parents don’t realize this until later, sometimes after encouraging the flagship themselves, and sometimes because they let their student “steer the boat”.</p>

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<p>A bit off topic but…the college counseling department at S’ HS strongly strongly advise living on campus the first year if at all possible. This is when friendships form, the mental transition to college occurs and new habits are set. If finances are an issue, they suggest transitioning to commuter status sophomore year.</p>

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<p>I don’t see any solid reason to choose more debt for a criminal science degree at SJU than less/no debt for a criminal science degree from your state college. </p>

<p>Why (IMO) waste extra money at the private, when the lower cost option is available? Even if you’re thinking about sending her to the private for her first year (whether out of guilt or whatever) with the back up plan of transferring later to a cheaper school, you will still be overspending on a product (criminal justice program) for a year and adding to your future debt load.</p>

<p>Think logically rather than emotionally. Move fast (like tomorrow AM), if you decide to switch her choice to the state college. Slots fill up. Housing fills up. </p>

<p>Don’t fool yourself into thinking a larger grant at a private school is better than a smaller grant from a public. Don’t compare merit/grant dollar amounts from one school to another. Rather, look at the whole picture: Total cost at private vs. total cost at state.
Total bottom line cost at private vs. total bottom line cost at state.</p>

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<p>I know most of the parents here are focusing primarily on the money, but I’m curious if you’ve thought about the impact on her emotionally–once you commit to a school, you tend to be fairly invested in it. Is she invested in this school emotionally? Has she bought into the SJU mentality, gotten very excited about it, etc. etc.? I’m not saying this is a reason to spend more, but it’s something you should keep in mind. If she isn’t in the mindset to become fully invested (or at least happy) at the state school, she may not do as well, become bitter or depressed, or struggle socially. </p>

<p>Just something to keep in mind besides the $$</p>

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<p>There is the bottom line, and then there are the amenites that go above that bottom line. If you absolutely are in trouble financially and cannot afford the cost, then I am fully with Katwkittens. For our family, because we do have the leeway, more than pragmatism is in the picture when evaluating value. To me, what the student wants more is a big deal, and we are willing to pay a premium for that choice. Just like we might pay a little more because one car appeals to us more, even if it is a shallow thing like the color that the difference. Every decision we make is not relegated purely to numbers and dollars. </p>

<p>I take a whole other view of this when a family has a zero or low EFC and can’t qualify for decent loans, has lousy credit, is out of a job, despite how much the student has “worked for this” and “deserves this” and wants this or that school more than anything else in the world. If it’s truly a problem finanically, or if the family is already in deep trouble in terms of making ends meet, you won’t find me advocating scraping up even more money for going to a school that is more expensive. But, if the money can be found, I put student choice right up there as a factor in making the decision. I have a kid going to an OOS public when he could get as good or better at our state school for half the amount. But he really wanted to go to this school, and it was within what we could pay for college, and DH and I came to an agreement that this was something we wanted to do, an extra we wanted to pay for our son to have. In some ways, he would have been better of with other choices, and I know danged well in terms of dollar value for the degree he gets and the courses, that we are overpaying. But he’s happy in that he got that extra, and that is what is worth it for me. But no, I am not fooling my self one instant that the same degree from the CUNY or locals school down the street would be of less value.</p>

<p>As for social scenes, i know too many kids who have transferred for so many different reasons, that it does not come into the picture much at all. My son as a senior in high school found it repugnant to even consider commuting to a local school that is not at all selective. Now two years later, he knows a lot of his former highschool class mates are going there, met other students there, and you know the cream does rise to the top, and a lot of those kids are doing just fine, and there is an active social life even among commuters. He has had a more difficult time making inroads socially as an out of stater at a state school. </p>

<p>The way I look at it, is that the decision has been made, let it go for the year, see how it works out. If a transfer is necessary, than it can be done more readily in that direction whereas not doable the other way, and you could recoup some of the first year expense if things just did nto work out there, by having your DD commute in future years. Happens all of the time.</p>

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<p>^It’s great that you have the money to give your kids what they want. The difference with this OP is that she and her daughter are looking at debt to give her something that could be achieved without debt (or little debt). As with the majority of people in this country (unlike CC members), money should be a priority when making big decisions such as college. It’s not always about giving in to wants and #1 preferences. When there is a solid #2 choice and it’s within a family’s financial reach, it makes sense to go with the logical choice.</p>

<p>As for being emotionally attached to the private college, her decision is only a few days or weeks old. Her daughter can just as easily get emotionally attached to choice #2. Purchase a new sweatshirt with the #2 choice college logo and move on.</p>

<p>Perhaps many on CC don’t agree with me, but some parents put too much emphasis on giving their children everything they want rather than discuss with them a more suitable financial compromise. Wants and needs are two different things. For example: Kid wants a BMW, but parents can only afford a Honda Civic. Does this make the Honda Civic a bad choice because the child emotionally prefers the BMW? Too bad. Child gets a car and should give thanks for what they were given.</p>

<p>We’re talking about taking on debt for something when an equally suitable yet less expensive option is available. For some, finances don’t matter. When their child wants something, they get it. For many, finances do matter and should be a priority in decision making. </p>

<p>Yes, the decision has been made. However, if calls are made ASAP and discussions take place, their is a strong possibility that the decision can be reversed and debt be held to a minimum. Waiting beyond the next couple of days may make this option unattainable. A frank talk with the daughter needs to be made now—as in tonight. Proceed from there.</p>

<p>Financial decisions shouldn’t be made on emotions. Remember—wants are different than needs. It’s a good lesson for all young people to learn.</p>

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<p>My dear friend’s DD graduated from SJU last year with a psychology degree and $120K of student loan debt. She had a $12K/year scholarship as a freshman which was reduced when she partied a bit too much and didn’t meet the gpa requirements.</p>

<p>She will be living at home for the foreseeable future. Most of her friends at school were getting their bills paid by parents and went on to graduate school. Certainly not all students there come from money, but it does have a bit of the country club atmosphere.</p>

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<p>I would not put too much weight on this. It’s hard to know why students don’t graduate in 4 years, or 6 years, or whatever period these numbers were calculated over. It could be simply that St. Joe’s attracts wealthier students, and the students at WCU are more likely to have financial issues and drop out temporarily to work, or take longer than 4 or 6 years to graduate because they’re having to take a lighter course load in order to work. Also, if a student transfers out, are they counted as not graduating? If so, there could be University Park transfers counted in that number. The WCU number is not necessarily low because courses are difficult to get or the academic ability of the students is lower. The issues that cause students at either school not to graduate in a timely fashion may not be issues for your daughter. I don’t think you can disregard the numbers completely, but I wouldn’t make a decision based on them. The 4 year graduation rate at my D’s state flagship is 38% (6 year rate is closer to 70%), but I didn’t hesitate to send her there because of that. I have little doubt that, barring a health or similar crisis, my D will be able to graduate in 4 years. </p>

<p>I responded on your other thread, and my thoughts haven’t changed. I do agree with a prior poster, however, that now that a decision has been made, you really need to consider how your daughter will be affected if she has to change course.</p>

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<p>I did not know there was another thread about this subject before this one. So I went and read the other thread.</p>

<p>Have more info now.</p>

<p>How are your daughter’s grades now? Your last post on the other thread mentioned she was failing 3 classes, is this still the case?</p>

<p>And I did not realize you were looking at more loans than the fed loan limits. You mentioned your wife knows plenty of undergrads with $40K or more and that is acceptable. That is NOT acceptable.</p>

<p>My son in MEDICAL school is stressing that his loan will be above $40K after his 4th year in TOTAL (national average is $190K). His undergrad loan debt is $1283, which he took to build his credit. And he has three degrees and 2 minors.</p>

<p>If you are worrying now about her high school classes and their respective grades encouraging her to have more than $40K in loans is irresponsible. </p>

<p>Is she expected to work at all during the summer or during the school year? </p>

<p>As a parent I would really re-think this and I speak as a parent of 5, knowing how financial burdens can later affect life-long decisions. If she is looking to a govt. job requiring a security clearance as well, a credit check will be in play and having burdensome loans will not help, at all.</p>

<p>Kat</p>

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<p>Thank you again for all the advise.</p>

<p>Value is always a difficult to measure, especially with something as esoteric an education. I will buy a Honda, even though it might be more expensive, because in the long run it is more reliable and holds its resale value. I wont by a BMW though you might make the same argument about it. I was not able to find as much info on the graduates of WCU as to where they wind up, % employed and avg salery etc… as was available for SJU.</p>

<p>At 26K/yr total cost, I had accepted the value of SJU but am still concerned about carving out that much from our budget. They claim COA increases about 3% each year. We have saved up enough to pay a portion of that cost and DD will be working, at least during the summer and during school once she has successfully made the transition. She has stepped up and is working on her HS grades again. I don’t think she will have a spectacular ending to her HS years but I don’t think she will be jeopardizing her scholarship either. If she were to take a gap year, it might hurt her as I’m sure the schools would be looking closely at her senior year grades. </p>

<p>DD is happy about her choice but I can’t tell how big an issue it would be to have her switch now. WCU is still admitting students, so we will have to discuss it and see if she is still committed to SJU, with the understanding that it may result in high debt or that she might have to transfer. She is already aware that if she does not maintain her scholarship, she will be transferring. I do not think she has a grasp about how much it cost and how easy or hard it will be for us to pay this. </p>

<p>I will review our budgeting plans again this weekend and then confirm with DD to stay with the decision, or help her to scramble to put plan B into action. </p>

<p>Thanks again
Tallship</p>