@CU123 I see your point, but I think I remember a school saying they had to…I wish I could remember which school. It might have been Wake? Not sure. But I thought they needed it for the Common Data Set reporting. Anyway, maybe it’s changed but I know some schools made you send them for their records.
And yes that was my point…if they are admitting some kids without scores and therefore NOT adding those scores into their stats, then yes, the average scores would be inflated.
This is not a school discussed much on this thread, but here is what Providence College asks:
We feel that your high school record is a better indicator of your academic performance than a four-hour test. If the student is accepted and decides to enroll at Providence College, the student then will be required to submit the scores for statistical and advisory purposes.
@collegemomjam You might be confusing it with schools that allow you to put unofficial scores in via the common app and not have to send the official results directly from the college board until after admittance.
No, definitely not. I remembered it from Providence, but I know I’ve seen it elsewhere. But it may vary by school. Some people might want to know if those stats are in there or not.
@collegemomjam I don’t think they have to report by rule . However I do recall somewhere saying it is required after you accept an admission at some schools. Specifically for the statistics only. But I could be wrong on that. Some as you say have a high reporting level. I know that’s what Bowdoin told us and I recall in last year’s cycle. I think Chicago has said most are submitting. But that’s from threads here.
@CU123 From Bowdoin’s website. And they were the first to go TO 50 years ago, according to them:
Note: Because standardized test results are used for academic counseling and placement as well as for the College’s ongoing research into the relationship between standardized testing and success at Bowdoin, all entering first-year students must submit scores over the summer prior to matriculating at Bowdoin.
@collegemomjam I knew it was Bowdoin. Lol. I’m not totally losing my mind yet ?
@privatebanker “Yet”
Ok haven’t seen that before, but I guess at least Bowdoin requires it. What if they never took them?
@mwolf. You always make me laugh. Lol. You’re a funny dude!
@CU123 I have wondered the same thing. Probably most kids that apply to Bowdoin take them, but maybe not to all test optional schools applicants do.
I might call a few and ask how they handle this. It might be more subtle, like after you commit, they ask. I suppose it’s possible (not to reopen the conspiracy theory that everyone is trying to game the system) that some schools just don’t want you to report them because it will hurt their stats…
Some schools (USC, I think?) post scores for both admitted and matriculated (as someone mentioned before I believe). I personally really love the transparency.
If I find anything out I will post it.
@collegemomjam “For this reason I am glad some schools at least still have REA so at least the kids that have found their ED school aren’t competing for those spots”
Most EDs can, and most do, still apply EA to colleges that have EA so I think it doesn’t reduce EA competition, but dose reduce RD competition.
Colorado College is a shining example of transparency.
It has already shown its admit rate for each type of application for this year (class of 2023) Although its rate is in the teens, there is a wide gulf between rates for different strategies.
ED1 and 2, 27%
EA, 15%
RD, 5%
https://www.coloradocollege.edu/admission/application/early/
Numbers are in the Q and A “what are the admit rates for each round”
REA means “restrictive early action” @suzyQ7 so if a student is applying somewhere ED by definition they are not permitted to apply to those schools. Usually it’s OK to apply EA (especially to state schools), but not REA if you are applying ED to a school.
SCEA (single choice) means pretty much the same thing. Here’s Harvard’s EA policy:
Early Action applicants apply by the November 1 deadline and hear from us by mid-December. If you apply to Harvard under our Early Action program, you may also apply at the same time to any public college/university or to foreign universities but you are restricted from applying to other private universities’ Early Action and Early Decision programs. You may apply under our Regular Decision program until January 1.
Here’s Notre Dame’s:
Notre Dame has a non-binding Restrictive Early Action program.
A student applying Restrictive Early Action to Notre Dame may apply to other Early Action programs.
A student applying Restrictive Early Action to Notre Dame may not apply to any college or university in their binding Early Decision program.
So an applicant applying to Harvard can apply EA to Michigan, but not to Northwestern ED.
An Applicant applying to Northwestern ED cannot apply to Harvard (SC)EA or ND REA. But they can apply to Michigan.
When Boston College changed this year from REA to regular EA, their EA applications soared. I think their RD might have been slightly down because of this, but overall they saw a sizable bump in overall applications. And next year they are going to ED I and ED II, and things may change again.
My point is that changes in application options impact admission stats.
@BrianBoiler It’s not just the Ivy+ schools and the top students that apply to them that are being affected. The rapidly lowering admit rates at the top trickles down to the next 50-100 colleges. So now those schools are much more difficult to get into than 5-10 years ago (a blink of an eye to most parents). Those A-/B+ students w/decent test scores who could count on getting in to a Trinity, Emory or Bucknell a decade ago now can’t. And so on for the reasonably ambitious B students and the colleges they used to be able to get into espe state flagships. Add in the fact that most families have to contend w/the soaring cost of attendance and then this entire college application process becomes so much more stressful for most kids (not just the top kids that get the most play here on CC). So those kids that know (or have parents who know) about this shift in college admissions get pushed further down the list. Often those families and kids that don’t know how much the landscape has changed get burned. So for many families who attend less well resourced HSs in small town USA, the world of college admissions in 2019 comes as a shock. My D who is an all around better student than her older brother of 9 years likely wouldn’t be able to follow in his footsteps into the same college that he did.
I have always been impressed by Georgetown. It can be argued it is the opposite of UChicago.
My son applied both to G-Town and UChicago. He saw both as very strong liberal arts programs and particularly excellent schools for his academic areas of interest. Really, the exact application process is but a small issue if the school is a good fit. He sparked to both applications, so they really couldn’t be all that different, even if they appeared so. Perhaps it’s that both attracted serious students.
If that were true, yield would go down and # accepted up and it would cancel out.
What’s happening I think is more kids are thinking they must go to one of the top X schools to secure their economic place, so more apps are aimed at those few schools than before. Also, there are more top-college-ready-and-can-afford international kids than in previous decades.
FYI fee waivers are limited on the common app. To 8, I believe.
Chicago and Reed are two good examples, Chicago played the ranking games well and got its much deserved place while Reed didn’t play and thus no good ranking to speak of. Both are excellent schools for interested students.
Not sure about Colby/Bowduin.
Fat chance of this happening, but what would really quiet these debates is if each school were forced to publish admit rates and basic stats in a grid: EA, ED1, ED2, RD on the vertical axis, and URM, Athlete, Legacy, Development, and Unhooked on the horizontal axis. Then we’d all know everything we need to know figure where and when our kids should apply.