<p>My S (10th grade) and his school friend (12th grade) have been taking math classes at the local state U in addition to their high school classes. The schedule of these math classes precludes S and friend from participating in many after school EC activities (e.g. team sports or group activities where daily attendance is required). Both kids will meet high school graduation requirements without the college classes. The GC told friend that an academic pursuit in math is not considered as EC on a college application.</p>
<p>Do you agree with the GCs definition of EC? Do students normally treat college classes like AP classes in their college application - i.e. just attach a transcript and say nothing about them in their essays? Ss friend has enough college math credits to get a minor in math should he attend the local state U upon HS graduation. I predict S will be in a similar situation in a couple of years because S wants to continue taking math classes at the college (he is beyond HS math). Personally, I would prefer S to spend more time on HS activities instead. </p>
<p>When the time comes for college application, S may be looking at top colleges which have generous need-based financial aid. Ss EC is rather weak (by CC standard :) ) and the math schedule does not help. Does it sound too much like an excuse if S points out that his college classes limit what EC he can do (even though it is true)? Can he regard his math class as an EC? Would you encourage S to spend more time on EC and not take any more college math classes for the next 2 years?</p>
<p>It's not an "EC" but your son does not NEED to have EC's when he has a clear passion -- it is definitely doing something with his time that demonstrates a pursuit of an interest or passion. I think you should allow your son to pursue his own interests, and then when it is time to apply to colleges, he can apply to those where he is a good fit.</p>
<p>Hint: boys with strong math skills are highly valued at many liberal arts colleges.</p>
<p>My S was also take college math classes (starting in 9th grade) and these were on top of his regular high school schedule so he had very little time for ECs. He basically joined the Science Team.<br>
In one of his applications, S wrote about his membership in the Science Team as a way for maintaining his friendship with school friends, given the limited time he had for social activities and other ECs. He applied to two top schools and was admitted to both. </p>
<p>As calmom said, your son does not need to have ECs when he has a clear passion. I think you should let your son do what he loves best. His passion will come out loud and clear in his application.</p>
<p>Many math oriented kids join the Science Olympiad Team, the Math Team (some schools have them), get involved in math competitions on an individual basis and go to summer math enrichment activities. These EC activities could be seen as pushing your love of math further.</p>
<p>DS was also taking university classes while in high school; he did not have lots of ECs; he was accepted to a top university. His ECs were mostly Math-related: Math club (once a week), summer camps, and Math/CS/Physics competitions and olympiads (AMC/AIME, USAMTS, ARML, USACO, Physics Olympiad) - neither of them required regular (every day or every week) participation. In addition, he did a lot of peer tutoring, but the schedule was very flexible. He never aimed to have a "laundry list" of ECs, just did what he liked. Worked for him, worked for many kids he knows.</p>
<p>I don’t have a clear idea on what is considered an EC. If S takes college classes in dance, wouldn’t you call that an EC? (The idea of S taking dance classes is so outrageous… lol ). Doesn’t EC just mean that it is something outside of what the HS can offer? </p>
<p>My S does have some ECs like AMC math competitions and math team. This year, he was able to participate in cross country running (his absences did not affect the team’s score) and he tried out speech contests (and missed half of the meets because of schedule conflicts). The HS had been accommodating but he did not feel like he was part of the teams because of his absences. That’s why I think cutting back on the math class will help. However, he does not want to give up his math classes.</p>
<p>Interestingly enough, S’s friend decides not to major in math when he starts college. He learns from his college math classes (while he was in high school) that theoretical math is not his forte. He is going to major at engineering and did not consider many fine liberal arts colleges. He will not attend the local state U because he is tired of going to the same old U. I’m afraid my S will feel the same way about the local U.</p>
<p>If your son does something like marmat103 posts, then he will also be a strong candidate for top colleges.</p>
<p>However I think you should sit down with your son and reflect on what he's doing and whether its the right thing for him. It sounds like your S has interests outside of just math; you mentioned speech and track. Taking these math classes comes at a cost, then, of other activities he could be doing that it sounds like he'd enjoy. In the longer view, would he get more enjoyment out of fully participating in these activities? If math is his forte and he's taking part in all the ECs marmat103 relates that's one thing. But if all he's doing is taking college-level math classes, why not wait for college to take them? The math classes will still be there when he gets to college. But a lot of the things he can do now in HS as ECs won't be.</p>
<p>As for what colleges, consider as ECs -- since you're considering top colleges, here's what Stanford says about ECs in its FAQ
[quote]
In addition to academic excellence and intellectual vitality, we are interested in students who have made significant contributions to the life of their school or community. We do not favor one type of activity over another; nor is it necessary to participate in a large number of activities. An exceptional experience in one or two activities demonstrates your passion more than minimal participation in five or six clubs. We want to see the impact your participation has had on that club, in your school, or in the larger community. With extracurricular activities, a sustained depth of commitment is more important than a long list of clubs you have joined.
<a href="http://www.stanford.edu/dept/uga/applying/1_8_faqs.html#extracurricular_activities%5B/url%5D%5B/quote%5D">http://www.stanford.edu/dept/uga/applying/1_8_faqs.html#extracurricular_activities
<p>
[quote]
Doesn’t EC just mean that it is something outside of what the HS can offer?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yes and no. College classes in academic subjects are not considered extra-curricular activities. But classes in dance, arts, music etc... whether at a college or some other setting would be considered ECs. So math competitions are ECs, as would piano lessons and cross-country running, but not college math classes.</p>
<p>I don't see why you wish your son to build more ECs at the expense of the one area he seems to enjoy and shine in, i.e., math. He already does math team. That's enough. Colleges understand that there are only 24 hours in a day. And he does not have to want to be a math major in order to love math in high school.
What, by the way, is the local U?</p>
<p>EDIT: Stanford is one of the schools my EC-deficient S got into; it's no exaggeration to say that Stanford even courted him. As for high school ECs no longer being available in college? Well, there are plenty more. S is involved in ECs I would never have dreamed of while he was in high school.</p>
<p>(1) I agree with everyone else that ECs are of secondary importance where you have substantial, verifiable achievement beyond the norm in an academic field. Taking advanced college math classes in grades 10-12 is pretty good.</p>
<p>(2) One of my son's friends -- who has been admitted to one of those "schools providing generous need-based aid", beating him out, by the way -- took university French literature courses in grades 11 and 12. That kicked a huge hole in her schedule, and required a lot of travel time. She was still able to do a lot of in-school service work during the mornings, and to serve as an editor of the yearbook. Not the kind of cancer-curing effort that impresses people, but whatever it was, it didn't disqualify her. (She is otherwise a really impressive girl, although certainly not the only one in her class.) </p>
<p>Now that I think of it, there was another very impressive girl who took university Spanish literature classes in 11th and 12th grades, and who also got into a generous-need-based-aid school, though not one of the known-by-its-initial-only schools. In most respects, she would have been fairly indistinguishable from the first girl on paper, but I don't think anyone was surprised that Girl #1 had the Big Prize admission result that eluded Girl #2, precisely because Girl #1 found more ways to show leadership and community commitment than Girl #2 did.</p>
<p>
[quote]
As for high school ECs no longer being available in college? Well, there are plenty more. S is involved in ECs I would never have dreamed of while he was in high school.
[/quote]
I probably didn't explain enough what I meant because I didn't want a mile-long post ;) </p>
<p>What I was referring to are things such as the chance to represent your school on a sports team against other schools is more available in HS than college (many sports even have a no-cut rule). The chance to play in the school symphony, or be a lead in the school play. The odds of being elected to offices in student government. The chance to be a mentor to kids at a elementary school you once attended and where you can remember what it felt like to look up to the "big kids". The chance to take part in volunteer work helping the community where you have your roots. And so on.</p>
<p>^^ Yes, but only if that's what you want to do.
Too many students and their parents want to do ECs to look good for adcoms. That's why they worry about having unimpressive ECs. Not because they really want to do the ECs themselves.
If the student really wants to cross country or speech, then certainly, he should try to pursue these ECs more consistently than he has done. But he does not want to give up the math classes in college. He has a choice. Let it be his.</p>
<p>I encourage my S to try different ECs because I am afraid that he is taking the easy way out – i.e. sticking with math just because he is good at math. I want him to try different things in HS and see if there are other activities that appeal to him. </p>
<p>I probably should have help S with more EC exploration while he was in elementary or middle school. My mistake!</p>
<p>I guess I want my kid to become a more well-rounded person even though his well-lopsidedness maybe more interesting to a top college. If only he can be well-rounded AND well-lopsided!! </p>
<p>Marite, my S is taking classes at a state flagship U in Midwest.</p>
<p>I sympathize. My S is extremely lopsided, though he has developed non-math/science ECs in college. But nothing was done with an eye to college admission. He led all the way.</p>
<p>My D friend finished all levels of math, including AP calculus sophmore year and started higher calculus first at the local CC then at a private four year university for senior year. She continued working outside of school, and had a few other minor ECs. Despite high grades and test scores she did not get into her favorite elite ivy and LAC schools, but did get into a good private university. So it depends.</p>