College Comparison XIV: Student Body Depth-Focus on SAT Critical Reading

College Search & Selection
1

<p>In order to assist some in their college search process, I have prepared a series of threads that will compare colleges on a variety of measurements. In making these comparisons, I have created three broad groups (private national universities, public national universities and liberal arts colleges) and provide comparisons involving 117 colleges (national universities ranked in the USNWR Top 75 and LACs ranked in the USNWR Top 40). </p>

<p>Following is a comparison on STUDENT BODY DEPTH-FOCUS ON SAT CRITICAL READING. The comparison shows what percentage of students achieved at the 700+ level on this test and is a potentially valuable indicator of the depth of the student body's abilities. While standardized test scores are best considered in combination with other student data that adcomms have access to (rigor of curriculum, grades in demanding courses, GPA, etc.), they are the best single source of data that outside observers have to compare the strengths of student bodies at various schools. </p>

<p>To aid in the comparisons, I have included the level of the highest-ranking public universities with each of the private groups for National Universities and LACs. This should help families appreciate the way that the very top scoring public compares with their private competition. </p>

<p>I hope that you enjoy the thread and find some helpful information. Good luck to all in your college search process</p>

<p>% of students scoring 700+ on SAT CR , Private National University</p>

<p>76% , Yale
76% , Caltech
73% , Princeton
71% , U Chicago
65% , Dartmouth
64% , Columbia
64% , Wash U
62% , Tufts
60% , Duke
60% , Northwestern
58% , MIT
58% , Brown
57% , Stanford
54% , Georgetown
53% , Rice
52% , U Penn
50% , Notre Dame
47% , Vanderbilt
45% , Johns Hopkins
45% , Emory
43% , Tulane
41% , Cornell
41% , TOP PUBLIC (William & Mary)
38% , Brandeis
33% , Carnegie Mellon
33% , USC
32% , NYU
29% , Boston College
25% , Wake Forest
24% , Case Western
23% , Rensselaer
22% , U Rochester
20% , U Miami
19% , George Washington
17% , Lehigh
17% , Yeshiva
16% , BYU
15% , Boston University
15% , Pepperdine
13% , Fordham
13% , SMU
13% , Worcester
5% , Syracuse</p>

<p>na , Harvard</p>

<p>% of students scoring 700+ on SAT CR , State University</p>

<p>41% , WILLIAM & MARY
32% , U VIRGINIA
29% , UC BERKELEY
25% , U N CAROLINA
22% , U MICHIGAN
20% , UCLA
20% , U PITTSBURGH
19% , GEORGIA TECH
18% , U MINNESOTA
17% , U FLORIDA
17% , U MARYLAND
16% , U WISCONSIN
15% , U TEXAS
14% , U IOWA
13% , UC SAN DIEGO
12% , U ILLINOIS
11% , U WASHINGTON
11% , U GEORGIA
11% , U DELAWARE
10% , OHIO STATE
9% , UC S BARBARA
9% , CLEMSON
8% , UC DAVIS
8% , UC IRVINE
8% , RUTGERS
8% , MICHIGAN ST
7% , PENN STATE
7% , TEXAS A&M
7% , U CONNECTICUT
7% , INDIANA U
7% , UC S CRUZ
7% , VIRGINIA TECH
6% , PURDUE</p>

<p>% of students scoring 700+ on SAT CR , LAC</p>

<p>76% , Pomona
65% , Swarthmore
64% , Williams
64% , Harvey Mudd
63% , Amherst
57% , Vassar
57% , Oberlin
56% , Carleton
54% , Bowdoin
52% , Haverford
52% , Claremont McK
51% , Wesleyan
49% , Middlebury
49% , W&L
48% , Wellesley
47% , Barnard
44% , Hamilton
44% , Macalester
43% , Grinnell
43% , Scripps
42% , Whitman
41% , TOP PUBLIC (William & Mary)
40% , Davidson
39% , Colby
39% , Bryn Mawr
39% , Kenyon
38% , Colgate
36% , Bates
35% , Mt. Holyoke
31% , Smith
29% , Colorado College
26% , Occidental
26% , Trinity
20% , Furman
19% , Bucknell
19% , Sewanee
18% , US Military Acad
18% , Holy Cross
17% , US Naval Acad
16% , Lafayette
15% , U Richmond</p>

<p>na , Bard</p>

2

<p>It would be helpful for colleges to release a “mean family income of admitted/enrolled students,” so this information can be evaluated in better context.</p>

3

<p>It would also be helpful to have a comparison of this chart and the 25-75 chart. If this chart is any different, I’d be curious at where, how, and why.</p>

4

<p>You really should consider the percent of students taking the SAT vs. ACT.</p>

5

<p>You probably should have included an n/a for Reed College (but I can see why you didn’t given that they don’t sumbit info to USNWR). Nevertheless, this is a pretty interesting ranking. Funny how at first one looks at Cornell and Carnegie Mellon and assumes this is because of their techy reps, and then they look at Caltech, Harvey Mudd, and MIT, and that notion kind of shatters.

Frankly, though, at the vast majority of top schools (some state flagships are different) the SAT/ACT ratio will be much higher than 1, and so I don’t think any inaccuracies are produced in this regard.</p>

6

<p>modest & noimag,
Does this help? </p>

<p>% 700+ , SAT CR 25 - SAT CR 75 , Private National University ( % submitting SAT scores )</p>

<p>76% , 700 - 800 , Yale ( 92% )
76% , 700 - 760 , Caltech ( 97% )
na , 690 - 800 , Harvard ( 98% )
73% , 690 - 790 , Princeton ( 98% )
71% , 690 - 780 , U Chicago ( 79% )
65% , 660 - 770 , Dartmouth ( 78% )
64% , 680 - 770 , Columbia ( 97% )
64% , 680 - 760 , Wash U ( 75% )
62% , 670 - 750 , Tufts ( 71% )
60% , 660 - 760 , Duke ( 91% )
60% , 670 - 750 , Northwestern ( 80% )
58% , 660 - 760 , MIT ( 95% )
58% , 650 - 760 , Brown ( 92% )
57% , 650 - 760 , Stanford ( 93% )
54% , 650 - 740 , Georgetown ( 92% )
53% , 650 - 750 , Rice ( 97% )
52% , 650 - 740 , U Penn ( 94% )
50% , 650 - 740 , Notre Dame ( 55% )
47% , 650 - 740 , Vanderbilt ( 63% )
45% , 660 - 770 , Johns Hopkins ( 94% )
45% , 640 - 740 , Emory ( 88% )
43% , 630 - 720 , Tulane ( 52% )
41% , 630 - 730 , Cornell ( 95% )
38% , 640 - 720 , Brandeis ( 81% )
33% , 620 - 720 , Carnegie Mellon ( 98% )
33% , 620 - 720 , USC ( 84% )
32% , 620 - 720 , NYU ( 87% )
29% , 610 - 700 , Boston College ( 89% )
25% , 610 - 690 , Wake Forest ( 72% )
24% , 590 - 690 , Case Western ( 80% )
23% , 600 - 690 , Rensselaer ( 72% )
22% , 600 - 700 , U Rochester ( 92% )
20% , 580 - 680 , U Miami ( 62% )
19% , 590 - 680 , George Washington ( 76% )
17% , 590 - 680 , Lehigh ( 93% )
17% , 540 - 670 , Yeshiva ( 79% )
16% , 550 - 670 , BYU ( 33% )
15% , 580 - 670 , Boston University ( 90% )
15% , 550 - 670 , Pepperdine ( 81% )
13% , 560 - 660 , Fordham ( 90% )
13% , 560 - 660 , SMU ( 69% )
13% , 550 - 660 , Worcester ( 93% )
5% , 520 - 620 , Syracuse ( 90% )</p>

<p>% 700+ , SAT CR 25 - SAT CR 75 , State University ( % submitting SAT scores )</p>

<p>41% , 630 - 730 , WILLIAM & MARY ( 96% )
32% , 600 - 710 , U VIRGINIA ( 97% )
29% , 580 - 710 , UC BERKELEY ( 97% )
25% , 590 - 690 , U N CAROLINA ( 98% )
22% , 580 - 690 , U MICHIGAN ( 42% )
20% , 570 - 680 , UCLA ( 98% )
20% , 570 - 680 , U PITTSBURGH ( 94% )
19% , 600 - 690 , GEORGIA TECH ( 94% )
18% , 530 - 670 , U MINNESOTA ( 17% )
17% , 570 - 680 , U FLORIDA ( 69% )
17% , 570 - 680 , U MARYLAND ( 95% )
16% , 540 - 670 , U WISCONSIN ( 24% )
15% , 540 - 660 , U TEXAS ( 94% )
14% , 510 - 660 , U IOWA ( 9% )
13% , 540 - 660 , UC SAN DIEGO ( 98% )
12% , 530 - 650 , U ILLINOIS ( 26% )
11% , 530 - 650 , U WASHINGTON ( 90% )
11% , 560 - 660 , U GEORGIA ( 93% )
11% , 550 - 640 , U DELAWARE ( 96% )
10% , 540 - 650 , OHIO STATE ( 53% )
9% , 530 - 650 , UC S BARBARA ( 98% )
9% , 550 - 640 , CLEMSON ( 79% )
8% , 500 - 630 , UC DAVIS ( 99% )
8% , 520 - 630 , UC IRVINE ( 100% )
8% , 530 - 630 , RUTGERS ( 99% )
8% , 480 - 620 , MICHIGAN ST ( 18% )
7% , 530 - 630 , PENN STATE ( 79% )
7% , 520 - 630 , TEXAS A&M ( 74% )
7% , 540 - 630 , U CONNECTICUT ( 96% )
7% , 510 - 620 , INDIANA U ( 79% )
7% , 510 - 630 , UC S CRUZ ( 98% )
7% , 540 - 630 , VIRGINIA TECH ( 96% )
6% , 490 - 610 , PURDUE ( 79% )</p>

<p>% 700+ , SAT CR 25 - SAT CR 75 , LAC ( % submitting SAT scores )</p>

<p>76% , 700 - 780 , Pomona ( 73% )
65% , 680 - 760 , Swarthmore ( 93% )
na , 680 - 740 , Bard ( 95% )
64% , 660 - 760 , Williams ( 83% )
64% , 670 - 770 , Harvey Mudd ( 89% )
63% , 660 - 760 , Amherst ( 76% )
57% , 670 - 750 , Vassar ( 88% )
57% , 660 - 750 , Oberlin ( 77% )
56% , 660 - 750 , Carleton ( 90% )
54% , 650 - 760 , Bowdoin ( na )
52% , 650 - 740 , Haverford ( 86% )
52% , 650 - 750 , Claremont McK ( 85% )
51% , 640 - 740 , Wesleyan ( 79% )
49% , 630 - 740 , Middlebury ( 53% )
49% , 660 - 740 , W&L ( 99% )
48% , 640 - 740 , Wellesley ( 87% )
47% , 640 - 740 , Barnard ( 61% )
44% , 650 - 730 , Hamilton ( 90% )
44% , 640 - 740 , Macalester ( 72% )
43% , 615 - 740 , Grinnell ( 86% )
43% , 640 - 730 , Scripps ( 60% )
42% , 630 - 730 , Whitman ( 76% )
40% , 630 - 730 , Davidson ( 83% )
39% , 640 - 720 , Colby ( 58% )
39% , 620 - 730 , Bryn Mawr ( 51% )
39% , 630 - 730 , Kenyon ( 89% )
38% , 630 - 730 , Colgate ( 60% )
36% , 630 - 720 , Bates ( 85% )
35% , 620 - 720 , Mt. Holyoke ( 70% )
31% , 600 - 710 , Smith ( 90% )
29% , 620 - 700 , Colorado College ( 80% )
26% , 590 - 700 , Occidental ( 88% )
26% , 580 - 700 , Trinity ( 77% )
20% , 590 - 690 , Furman ( 83% )
19% , 600 - 680 , Bucknell ( 93% )
19% , 570 - 680 , Sewanee ( 52% )
18% , 560 - 670 , US Military Acad ( 60% )
18% , 580 - 670 , Holy Cross ( 36% )
17% , 560 - 670 , US Naval Acad ( 72% )
16% , 580 - 670 , Lafayette ( 80% )
15% , 580 - 680 , U Richmond ( 88% )</p>

7

<p>Helps a ton. Some interesting anomalies on the top list from a quick scan:
Yeshiva (lower low end, comparable high end to the scores above and below)
Boston University (much higher low end than surrounding schools)
Case Western (same as Yeshiva but for 2-3 places above and below)
Cornell (larger range than surrounding schools)
JHU (much higher range than anything around it, remarkably high 75% for it’s place on the list. Don’t hit that 75% until schools that have almost 50% more 700+ scores… this seems almost too strange to believe, especially considering high reporting. Is this an admitted versus enrolled error? If not, there’s a lot to be said here.)
Brown (surprisingly beats Stanford, even though Stanford has the same range… is this an athlete effect? Surprisingly ties MIT despite MIT’s higher range and supposed numbers focus versus Brown’s supposed holistic focus)
Tufts and Northwestern (higher than their 75 would suggest)
Caltech (entirely propelled by the 25th percentile. Not enrolling low scorers, but not necessarily enrolling high scorers relative to other schools when comparing the 75 which is surprisingly low. Truly the case of a “deep bench” over “star players”).</p>

8

<p>Hawkette–so what?? ^^660 vs 670?</p>

<p>Can you revert these into percenciles?</p>

<p>But thanks for the info, it’s informative.</p>

9

<p>

Should be “45%, 630 - 740, Johns Hopkins” instead.</p>

<p>

Should be “??%, 660 - 770, Chicago” instead.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.collegeboard.com%5B/url%5D”>www.collegeboard.com</a></p>

10

<p>USNWR and CB don’t always have the same data.</p>

11

<p>^they are supposed to match unless schools send wrong data (if the two are different, one has to be wrong)</p>

12

<p>USNWR is consistently 2 years behind current time, I believe, while CB updates sporadically as it receives new information. So both could be correct.</p>

13

<p>^Both are 1 year behind (2008-09).</p>

14

<p>Another way to look at this might be to consider the students who score below a certain threshhold, eg, 600. </p>

<p>Below is how these schools compare on the % of students who score below 600 on the SAT Critical Reading section. To the extent that one wants to use standardized tests as a proxy for student body strength, such a comparison speaks directly to the depth of the student body. </p>

<p>% scoring below 600 on SAT CR , Private National University</p>

<p>1% , Caltech
2% , Wash U
3% , Princeton
3% , Yale
5% , Northwestern
6% , Columbia
6% , Tufts
7% , U Penn
7% , U Chicago
7% , Emory
8% , Stanford
8% , Duke
8% , Notre Dame
9% , Dartmouth
9% , Vanderbilt
10% , MIT
10% , Brown
10% , Rice
10% , Georgetown
10% , Tulane
11% , Brandeis
12% , Johns Hopkins
12% , Rensselaer
13% , Cornell
15% , USC
15% , NYU
16% , Carnegie Mellon
18% , Wake Forest
19% , Boston College
26% , Lehigh
27% , Case Western
28% , George Washington
29% , U Rochester
29% , U Miami
34% , Boston University
39% , Fordham
42% , Pepperdine
42% , SMU
44% , BYU
45% , Worcester
48% , Yeshiva
62% , Syracuse</p>

<p>na , Harvard</p>

<p>% scoring below 600 on SAT CR , State University</p>

<p>16% , WILLIAM & MARY
22% , U VIRGINIA
25% , U N CAROLINA
26% , GEORGIA TECH
27% , U MICHIGAN
28% , UC BERKELEY
33% , UCLA
34% , U MARYLAND
35% , U FLORIDA
37% , U PITTSBURGH
42% , U WISCONSIN
42% , U GEORGIA
45% , UC SAN DIEGO
45% , U TEXAS
45% , U MINNESOTA
48% , U DELAWARE
49% , OHIO STATE
49% , CLEMSON
51% , U ILLINOIS
51% , UC S BARBARA
53% , U WASHINGTON
54% , U IOWA
55% , U CONNECTICUT
56% , VIRGINIA TECH
57% , PENN STATE
57% , RUTGERS
58% , TEXAS A&M
59% , UC DAVIS
59% , UC S CRUZ
60% , UC IRVINE
64% , INDIANA U
65% , MICHIGAN ST
69% , PURDUE</p>

<p>% scoring below 600 on SAT CR , LAC</p>

<p>3% , W&L
4% , Swarthmore
4% , Harvey Mudd
5% , Pomona
5% , Vassar
6% , Amherst
7% , Williams
7% , Bowdoin
8% , Carleton
8% , Claremont McK
8% , Hamilton
8% , Oberlin
9% , Wellesley
10% , Haverford
10% , Colby
10% , Scripps
10% , Barnard
11% , Kenyon
12% , Davidson
12% , Macalester
13% , Wesleyan
14% , Bates
15% , Colorado College
15% , Whitman
16% , Middlebury
16% , Colgate
17% , Bryn Mawr
17% , Mt. Holyoke
20% , Grinnell
23% , Bucknell
24% , Smith
26% , Occidental
27% , Trinity
27% , Furman
28% , U Richmond
28% , Holy Cross
31% , Lafayette
34% , US Military Acad
35% , Sewanee
37% , US Naval Acad</p>

<p>na , Bard</p>

15

<p>I’d be willing to be that a lot of those scores at UVa, W&M, and UMich are from OOS’ers…</p>

16

<p>

</p>

<p>I’m always surprised that Stanford’s SAT scores aren’t higher. As for MIT, it blows Brown out of the water on the math side.</p>

<p>SAT Math 700+:</p>

<p>MIT 85%
Brown 66% </p>

<p>I expect you’ll see a lot of the schools with big, high-quality engineering programs show more strongly in these comparisons once hawkette gets around to showing Math.</p>

17

<p>WOW- a fifth to a third of the students at some big name publics score <600!! That is literally thousands upon thousands of kids with some pretty low scores. Proves the point about atmosphere and peer group being a drawback for the top publics.</p>

18

<p>

Do you really feel that a student at any top public will associate with every other member of their school? Even a high school with under 2000 students (many of whom score FAR below even the worst scorers at top publics) will usually have social stratification between the layers of academic interest.</p>

19

<p>Actually, for sheer concentrations of smart people, the largest are mainly at the top publics; and at the privates, they’re not necessarily at the most “selective” schools.</p>

<p>Estimated # of 700+ CR scorers (= undergrad population X % of 700+ CR scorers)</p>

<p>Publics (partial list):
UC Berkeley 7294
U Florida 5891
Minnesota 5860
Michigan 5719
Texas 5607
UCLA 5307
Wisconsin 4920
UVA 4867
U Maryland 4493
UNC Chapel Hill 4474</p>

<p>Private universities (partial list):
NYU 6806
Cornell 5677
USC 5480
Northwestern 5086
Penn 5073
Columbia 4797
Wash U 4470
Notre Dame 4181
Yale 4010
Duke 3898
Georgetown 3830
Stanford 3723
Princeton 3636
U Chicago 3566
Brown 3535
Tufts 3127
Vanderbilt 3119
Emory 3100
Tulane 2902
Johns Hopkins 2556
MIT 2408
*
*
*
Caltech 700</p>

<p>LACs (partial list):
Oberlin 1618
Wesleyan 1414
Vassar 1362
Williams 1278
Middlebury 1203
Pomona 1164
Wellesley 1125
Carleton 1120
Barnard 1109
Colgate 1078
Amherst 1069
Swarthmore 968</p>

<p>Conclusions: Most really, really smart people (700+ CR) aren’t at HYPSM or AWS. There are large concentrations of them at many leading colleges and universities. Heck, there may be more 700+ CR scorers at the University of Minnesota than at any Ivy League school. There are twice as many 700+ CR scorers at Berkeley as at Stanford. And the fact that so many top scorers are NOT at the most selective schools, combined with the observation that HYPS-level schools could easily fill their entire class with 700+ CR scorers if they so chose but apparently elect not to do so, strongly suggests that SAT scores are not nearly as important a factor in admissions as many on CC want to believe. Consider Stanford, MIT, and Penn, each with barely over half of its entering class scoring 700+ on CR. Surely they could do “better” if they so chose, given the tens of thousands of 700+ CR scores out there at less selective schools. That they don’t seem to care should tell us something about how much or how little they prize top test scores.</p>

20

<p>Hawkette: this is great stuff. Once again what jumps out at me is how high Tulane scores under this criteria. It illustrates how messed up the USNWR rankings are, notably with its beauty contest category – aka PA, that a school like Tulane ranks 50th in USNWR, but outscores Cornell, USC, NYU, Brandeis, Boston College, Wake Forest, et al under this system. Notice the UC “also rans” of Davis, Irvine, and SB come in at 8 and 9 percent, while these schools under USNWR outrank several top state flagship schools and Tulane. What a joke.</p>