USNWR 2009: Looking at the Data IXX (Student Body Depth via Math scores)

College Search & Selection
1

<p>The publication of the 2009 USNWR College Rankings provides an opportunity to compare schools based on a wide variety of data points. In this and in other threads, I urge the reader to think less about the absolute rankings and more about the nature and value-added of the data point being discussed.</p>

<p>IMO, this is the single most effective measure for comparing student body depth. We can all argue about whether 10 or 30 or 50 points makes for a material difference in comparing SAT scores, but the delineation by a certain standard, eg, 700 score, 600 score, etc, gives a benchmark against which an entire student body can evaluated and contrasted vs other colleges. The weakness, of course, is that it does not differentiate between a 700 and a 790, but achieving a level of 700 is considered by most observers as sufficient to get one into the conversation for acceptance into even America's most competitive colleges. </p>

<p>Here is the full listing for colleges that are ranked in the USNWR Top 50 national universities and Top 25 LACs:</p>

<p>% of students scoring 700+ on SAT Math , % of students scoring 600+ on SAT Math , National University</p>

<p>100% , 100% , Caltech</p>

<p>87% , 99% , MIT</p>

<p>77% , 98% , Yale
75% , 98% , Princeton
74% , 98% , Wash U</p>

<p>68% , 94% , Duke
67% , 95% , Stanford
67% , 96% , U Penn
67% , 95% , Columbia
67% , 93% , Carnegie Mellon
66% , 95% , Northwestern
66% , 94% , Brown
65% , 93% , Dartmouth
64% , 93% , Rice</p>

<p>59% , 92% , U Chicago
59% , 93% , Cornell
59% , 92% , Johns Hopkins
58% , 92% , Notre Dame
57% , 95% , Tufts
56% , 95% , Emory
54% , 94% , Vanderbilt
50% , 90% , Georgetown</p>

<p>47% , 95% , Rensselaer
46% , 82% , UC Berkeley
46% , 91% , USC
46% , 90% , Brandeis
46% , 85% , U Illinois
45% , 93% , Georgia Tech
43% , 78% , UCLA
43% , 86% , U Michigan
41% , 88% , Boston Coll</p>

<p>38% , 82% , Case Western
36% , 78% , U Virginia
35% , 84% , NYU
34% , 87% , Lehigh
34% , 84% , U Rochester
32% , 86% , Wake Forest
32% , 83% , W&M
32% , 82% , U Wisconsin
30% , 74% , UCSD</p>

<p>29% , 80% , U North Carolina
25% , 67% , U Texas
21% , 70% , U Florida</p>

<p>17% , 60% , UC Irvine
16% , 60% , U Washington
16% , 57% , Yeshiva
16% , 62% , Tulane
14% , 60% , Penn State
13% , 54% , UC Davis
13% , 56% , UC Santa Barbara</p>

<p>na , na , Harvard</p>

<p>% of students scoring 700+ on SAT Math , % of students scoring 600+ on SAT Math , LAC</p>

<p>95% , 100% , Harvey Mudd</p>

<p>71% , 93% , Pomona</p>

<p>64% , 93% , Swarthmore
61% , 93% , Williams
60% , 92% , Amherst</p>

<p>53% , 90% , Claremont McK
52% , 92% , Carleton</p>

<p>49% , 90% , Middlebury
49% , 88% , Haverford
49% , 89% , Wesleyan
47% , 89% , Wellesley
45% , 86% , Bowdoin
43% , 96% , W&L
40% , 88% , Davidson</p>

<p>38% , 93% , Vassar
38% , 91% , Colby
37% , 83% , Grinnell
36% , 86% , Colgate
35% , 85% , Oberlin
31% , 91% , Hamilton
31% , 85% , Macalester</p>

<p>28% , 90% , Bates
24% , 77% , US Naval Acad
20% , 69% , Bryn Mawr</p>

<p>17% , 59% , Smith</p>

<p>na , na , US Military Acad</p>

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<p>All those schools listed above look like great schools to me.</p>

<p>I couldn't help but notice that UCSB was at the bottom of a great list</p>

<p>Can't speak for all the schools but I have heard great things about UCSB's physics department, and the school has an interesting math program where you can take graduate courses as an undergrad, and do plenty of research.</p>

<p>UCSB</a> Physics - Undergraduate Education: Prospective Students</p>

<p>UCSB</a> Department of Physics</p>

<p>College</a> of Creative Studies, UC Santa Barbara - Mathematics</p>

<p><a href="http://www.ccs.ucsb.edu/math/Why_CCS_Math?%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.ccs.ucsb.edu/math/Why_CCS_Math?&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>"Why CCS Math?<br>
The CCS Math Program has been designed for students planning to go on to graduate studies. An intensive three quarter sequence of math courses prepare CCS math majors to start taking upper division courses at the College of Letters and Science in their second year. This faster pace also allows them to take graduate courses by their fourth year. Each student is assigned a personal faculty advisor that will help tailor an individual course curricululm that focuses on the student's specific research area. </p>

<p>Students at CCS study a wide variety of advanced topics that shape their developing research interests, leading to the selection of a graduate school. There is an extensive involvement in the research process. CCS students are encouraged to become involved in independent research early in their undergraduate careers and professors at the math department are enthusiastic to have them work in their research groups. Summer research internships are available at UCSB and at other universities. </p>

<p>A dual major in physics or computer science is possible.</p>

<p>As a summary, some of the advantages of doing a CCS math major are: </p>

<p>1) Intensive three quarter sequence of CCS Math, starting in the fall of the freshman year.
2) Joint program CCS and Mathematics Department.
3) Small Classes/Seminars
4) Early involvement in research.
5) Personal faculty advising
6) Personalized curriculum tailored towards your interests.
7) Access to courses without taking prerequisites, including graduate level courses.
8) No limits on the number of courses or units you can take.
9) Simplified and more flexible general education requirements.
10) Priority registration for classes.
11) Graduate student library privileges.
12) CCS students may drop courses up to the last day of instruction.
13) 24 hour access to the CCS building."</p>

3

<p>Are these percentages for students who have been accepted or for students who are attending?</p>

4

<p>The data is all drawn from USWNR. I think that they intended it to be for ENROLLED students and I think that is the case for the great majority of schools listed above. However, some institutions will play games with these numbers and will report the data for ADMITTED students (U Penn has been accused of this on another thread). Still others will exclude certain groups of students (athletes, music students, etc) so some of their numbers may be inflated due to these exclusions.</p>

5

<p>USNEWS is supposed to be enrolled students. </p>

<p>Can anyone put one together for verbal as well?</p>

<p>I also think there's an old thread talking about the 25th percentile SAT score, and how it's a stronger indicator of student/class quality. I'll see if I can dig it up.</p>

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<p>Here is the comparable thread & data for Critical Reading:</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/589716-usnwr-2009-looking-data-xviii-student-body-depth-via-cr-scores.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/589716-usnwr-2009-looking-data-xviii-student-body-depth-via-cr-scores.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>...at this point UCB needs to step in and re-compute the above for total students rather than percentages....</p>

8

<p>we need a cornell alum to report the Arts & Sciences & Enginering numbers seperately. :D</p>

9

<p>
[quote]
...at this point UCB needs to step in and re-compute the above for total students rather than percentages....

[/quote]
</p>

<h1>of students scoring 700+ on SAT Math</h1>

<p>U Illinois 14,211
UC Berkeley 11,333
U Michigan 11,216
UCLA 10,936
U Wisconsin 9,280
U Texas 9,219
Georgia Tech 8,370
Cornell 7,971
U Florida 7,641
USC 7,536
NYU 7,338
U Penn 6,810
UCSD 6,411
Northwestern 5,467
Penn State 5,154
U North Carolina 5,113
U Virginia 4,942
U Washington 4,927
Notre Dame 4,845
Columbia 4,638
Wash U 4,531
Stanford 4,529
Duke 4,245
Yale 4,093
Carnegie Mellon 3,858
Brown 3,842
Boston Coll 3,723
Emory 3,722
UC Irvine 3,715
Princeton 3,688
MIT 3,629
Vanderbilt 3,528
Georgetown 3,426
UC Davis 3,049
U Chicago 2,892
Tufts 2,860
Dartmouth 2,707
Johns Hopkins 2,642
Rensselaer 2,428
UC Santa Barbara 2,305
Rice 1,953
W&M 1,835
Lehigh 1,606
Case Western 1,591
U Rochester 1,567
Brandeis 1,480
Wake Forest 1,412
Tulane 1,080
Caltech 864
Yeshiva 483</p>

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<p>^hey, ucb, note how the wildcats perform just as well either way. looks like they are more versatile than the bears. :D</p>

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<p>Hey UCBChemEGrad, for the sake of fairness, why don't you post the number of Berkeley students who scored below 700 on the Math SAT portion?;)</p>

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<p>^ I'm sure you can figure that out, smart guy.</p>