College Confidential Is Flawed

Chance Me / Match Me!
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<p>This pseudo-rant could also be titled "Why We Ought Not Trust High School Students to be Guidance Counselors"</p>

<p>The problem with college confidential is that the group of students on this forum tend to be unrepresentative of the general population. Students here tend to care much more about college than other segments of the population. GPAs especially (since they are a function of work ethic) tend to be much higher than average.</p>

<p>Now, this selection bias inherently presents a few problems. Since some students - I'm not sure what they're smoking - use this forum to actually make decisions that will affect the rest of their lives, CollegeConfidential as a community imparts the wrong set of values. Now, when a kid laments his "4 borderline B+'s", then there's a serious problem here. There are more important things to your college app than your GPA (especially at top schools). Sure, a 4.0uw won't hurt you, but it's not necessary to get to an ivy, even Harvard, Princeton, or Yale [HYP].</p>

<p>Furthermore, the emphasis on GPA often dissuades kids from applying to top colleges because they think that the school is out of their league. This is often done subtly: if I see a kid with a 3.9uw lamenting how his grades are too low for Yale, I might be afraid to apply with a 3.7uw.</p>

<p>Last, self-selection can also influence the perception of top colleges. If I went to the Penn board right now, I'd think that Penn Class of '10 are a bunch of raving college-obsessed lunatics. That's erroneous, but what other assumption can you draw from their behavior?</p>

<p>On a more serious note, self-selection bias is the least of the problems with CollegeConfidential. The more pressing problem with this site is the members. If I had stumbled across this site as an 8th grader, I could pose as an authority on getting into the ivy leagues. I could claim to have three daughters at Princeton, or to be a former adcom. I could tell kids, "don't bother applying", or "you don't have enough EC's". There's no guarantee that the members of this community are who they say they are.</p>

<p>Anyways, most of the members on this site are high school kids. Now, I don't mean to sound arrogant, but WHY exactly should they know more about college than you? There are a few college students, adcoms, and parents who grace us with their presence, but this is largely a meeting place for students. I'm sorry, but I don't think the "73.57% chance at UVA" response from a white male jr. in TX means anything to me.</p>

<p>The community tends to perpetuate a few myths about college.</p>

<p>First: That GPA is the most important factor in Ivy League decisions. Trust me - it's not. Judging from what I've actually seen, test scores and coursework difficulty are much more important, because they indicate academic potential versus academic performance. Granted, there's a correlation, but it's true that SAT scores are the best prediction of Freshman GPA in college.</p>

<p>Second: That you need a 'hook' to get into a top school. I know personally that this is not true. You can get into any college - yes, even HYP - without an amazingly unique background. Look at current college kids: do they ALL have hooks? Nope.</p>

<p>Third: That Asian kids are at a disadvantage. I see no reason why this is true. Maybe, at Berkley, perhaps at Stanford, but not to a large extent. Affirmative Action (which I personally disagree with), does not mean Reverse Discrimination againt OverRepresented Minorities.</p>

<p>*I can personally vouch for the first two: I was accepted to a school (for privacy reasons, I'll just say it was one of the big three [HYP]. My GPA was pretty darn low, and my ECs were strong but not exceptional. I had no 'hook'. My scores and coursework were strong, though. I'm also Asian.</p>

<p>Fourth: That less-than-perfect scores preclude admission to a top school. Anecdote: a girl last year got into Princeton from my school. Had she posted on this site, she would have been told A) Her GPA was too low, B) Her scores were too low, C) She didn't have enough ECs [she competed at the national level in dance competitions]. She got in ED. Had she posted on this site, she might not have applied.</p>

<p>Thus, CollegeConfidential is a community of semi-ignorant students without high school diplomas. It's not an oracle.</p>

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<p>Thank You.</p>

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<p>agreed, yet we're here....</p>

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<p>Bravo! Bravo!</p>

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<p>The problem isn't cc, it's people who base everything off of highschool students and people who trust in everything anyone says about them.</p>

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<p><em>claps</em> 10 char</p>

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<p>


</p>

<p>Quoted for truth. CC isn't flawed at all.</p>

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<p>ahhhh well said :)</p>

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<p>True, BUT
anyone who comes to this site must be aware that there are predominantly high school students.</p>

<p>Everyone comes to this site on their own discretion.</p>

<p>The CC community is flawed. Everyone knows that. Everything should be taken with a grain of salt. I also like to think that members base their decisions off the EA or RD Results threads of certain colleges. So, that may be why members say accept or reject quickly, by comparing them to accepted applicants who have posted on the EA or RD threads.</p>

<p>The good thing about CC isn't the "What are my chances." It is the relief one can get from knowing others are in a similar situation as themselves. CC also has some good advisers like NSM and Carolyn.
It is also a more general forum for high schoolers to just talk....</p>

<p>Perhaps there should be a sticky at the top of the Chances forum that says,
"CC MEMBERS DO NOT DETERMINE CHANCES"</p>

<p>Idk....i honestly thought that most people on this forum were smart enough to figure out that unqualified people are giving advice...</p>

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<p>yeah, i think we all understand that ccers dont know everything, but what we don't understand is that what we post makes an impact. ie, the stuff about RSI and TASP? that makes people learn about it and choose to apply. that's not a good or bad thing, it's just...impact.</p>

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<p>i think i'm in love w/ u</p>

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<p>aaah really joanna!! what you say on this semianonymous esoteric online forum is really true?</p>

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<p>Your advice is well-given!</p>

<pre><code> I'm actually one of those high-school kids who are telling people what their chances are in top schools.... :).

For me, it's more of a game...

It's gotta be a lot more than GPA or it would be a piece of cake for 4.0 students to apply to HYPSM, but it's not.

"academic potential versus academic performance"
</code></pre>

<p>Yes, yes!! That's exactly what I've been thinking, it's more about academic potential than "how many hooks you have"! </p>

<p>The kids with the "many hooks" who get accepted into Harvard usually tend to have a high academic potential to add to it.</p>

<p>Yet again, great advice.</p>

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<p>
[Quote]
*I can personally vouch for the first two: I was accepted to a school (for privacy reasons, I'll just say it was one of the big three [HYP]. My GPA was pretty darn low, and my ECs were strong but not exceptional. I had no 'hook'. My scores and coursework were strong, though. I'm also Asian.

[/Quote]
</p>

<p>How do we know this is true? For all we know, you could be a math genius janitor at Harvard. ;)</p>

<p>Actually, a very good post, but I disagree with your conclusion. What you wrote holds true for the "What are my chances" forum, but this site offers a lot more than that. As a parent, this forum has helped me immensely to guide my daughter (she hasn't even expressed an interest about reading or posting here). Her HS college counselor is focused on the state's public universities and has no clue as to elite college admissions. Many of my daughter's peers (and their parents) think a 4.0 GPA and 1400+(old) on the SATs guarantee them acceptance to HYP, if only they can afford to send them. Hang out in the parents and other forums and you'll find out about great colleges you may never even have heard about. You'll learn about schools that offer exceptional merit scholarships and financial aid. You also may find comfort and support from others during this stressful process.</p>

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<p>If it weren't for CC, I wouldn't have found out about RSI. I wouldn't be anywhere near where I am now.</p>

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<p>Not all of this is true. </p>

<p>1) There are some people here with a lot of experience with admissions
2) Its not all about chances, its about fit and lists, and many people need help with lists (too many safeties/ reaches)
3) I'd suffice it to say a non top GPA/ non-top SAT Asian with no hook or terrific EC did not get into HYPS in the last two years. There is an ACADEMIC INDEX and its much more based on rank than raw GPA. If you have a top SAT (which you did) as long as you are top 5-10% you are golden. No one says a 3.8UW is not HYPS material.</p>

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<p>I just find it funny that on CC, most people said I would never have a chance at UChicago and Penn...I got into both. But it is a very helpful site overall.</p>

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<p>No one made you come here, no one made you read the posts, no one made you take the advice. Everyone makes their own decisions, influenced or not. Keep it to yourself.</p>

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<p>Welcome to the world of online communities... where everyone can voice their opinion. Yes, a student would be foolish to blindly take advice from unknown and anonymous forum posters.</p>

<p>However, if you read here much, you'll find that there is a vast amount of information and GOOD advice offered. As in any online community, you have to consider the source - look at the member's longevity and post count, read past posts by the member, and, of course, see what other members say in response. Misinformation is often corrected quickly by other members. Furthermore, many questions can't be answered in a definitive manner, and reading a give-and-take discussion helps the reader arrive at his/her own conclusion.</p>

<p>I'd always encourage new members to spend some time getting to know who offers reliable advice.</p>

<p>CC is definitely not representative of the overall college-bound student population. It's skewed toward colleges and majors that are selective and hence where students and parents are seeking more information and, perhaps, a competitive edge.</p>

<p>I DO know that we get lots of feedback every year from students who got into great schools and attribute some of their success to what they learned here.</p>

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<p>If a student decides not to apply to HYP based on posts in an anonymous online forum, I'd argue that he doesn't have the critical thinking skills to succeed there in the first place.</p>

<p>As a foreign expatriate living in the United States, I knew nothing about college admissions until about a year ago--literally nothing. My school's university counseling starts in the spring of junior year, which I think is a tad late to be starting from scratch. If I hadn't found CC I'd be quite unprepared.</p>