<p>here's to stickershock! Good example. Fantastic opportunity.</p>
<p>It's wonderful how this thread has weaved around... couple thoughts:</p>
<p>College is far more than a means to an end. I hope it opens up a lifetime of learning (yes, sometimes just for learning's sake) for my D.</p>
<p>Also, if you do what you love, you are always better at it than if you do something just to pay the bills. </p>
<p>Finally, there are no sure things: ask the thousands of engineers and chemists laid off in my state this year. Makes dancing sound like a responsible choice.</p>
<p>Another odd career path story: My S-I-L, who has since earned an ivy PhD, was a dance instructor at a tropical island Club Med for a year. She said she often left the job off her resume in her early days because of the sexual connotation. She's a well-built redhead, and she was trying to come across as professional as possible.</p>
<p>StickerShock, a person's life isn't predetermined at age 18, 20 or 22, is it?</p>
<p>Some very interesting career path stories here...
I think we have to go where our children lead us. I'm pretty flexible and actually like the idea of going for an English, Philosophy or other non-occupational degree. Good writers, communicators, thinkers - that's what the workplace needs. And this path give you maximum flexibility.
Of course, my son thinks I'm crazy. He's a business major - thinks that's the only way to make it in the business world (no matter what I tell him). So I spend my time encouraging him to take Roman History or other such subjects.
Bottom line - It's his life and his choice. And really - it's OK to have an occupational focus too. To each his own...</p>
<p>
[quote]
StickerShock, a person's life isn't predetermined at age 18, 20 or 22, is it?
[/quote]
God, I hope not!</p>
<p>yeah, fine, we're all status conscious pawns of the top tier university marketing machine who don't have the sense to see a qualitative difference between Framingham State and MIT. Poor slobs, us. MIT keeps raising tuition, the kids live in concrete versions of Mini's mud huts (Mass Ave isn't a competitor in the amenities arms race), and just like Veblen predicted, idiots like me keep paying in an effort to show that we're wannabee members of the ruling class.</p>
<p>There are wonderful colleges out there at several price points that are delivering a huge value relative to their cost. And yes, there are institutions who charge a fortune and for many of their students (not all but many) they deliver far less value. My own State U seems to churn out an inexhaustible supply of "Sports Management" majors who all aspire to do strategic planning at ESPN or run the NFL, but struggle to make a living selling memberships at the local health club (a job for which only a HS diploma is a prerequisite... and a love of working out.)</p>
<p>So- go pick on the parents paying in-state tuition at a second or third tier state u. whose kids graduate without having been exposed to the canon of Western Lit, Art, music, history or what have you, AND can't get a job. Sounds like they're the status-crazed dupes. My kid is a college graduate. Can't write a grammatical sentence or locate Iraq on a map.... but junior's a college grad, by golly.</p>
<p>Why are status conscious people, idiots?</p>
<p>"So- go pick on the parents paying in-state tuition at a second or third tier state u. whose kids graduate without having been exposed to the canon of Western Lit, Art, music, history or what have you,"</p>
<p>If a kid goes to one of the above institutions, and hasn't been exposed to the above, that's probably the kid's fault. There are some pretty good professors and teachers at the above institutions.</p>
<p>
[quote]
So- go pick on the parents paying in-state tuition at a second or third tier state u. whose kids graduate without having been exposed to the canon of Western Lit, Art, music, history or what have you, AND can't get a job.
[/quote]
Blossom, this applies at some of the elites as well. Not all of them have a core in place & it is possible to fill one's schedule with fluff (I'm being kind) and obtain a degree.</p>
<p>I doubt that Sports Management major of which you speak had a chance in hell of getting into an elite. I think the discussion is about the worth of elites vs. top-tier publics/hidden gems that offer merit $$. If your kid can't get into either option, the point is moot.</p>
<p>The implication is indeed that we're idiots. An Hermes handbag costs thousands... and it holds your keys, wallet, and cellphone just as nicely as a bag from Target that cost 14.99. Who else but a status conscious idiot would pay such a premium for so little advantage in functionality?</p>
<p>This is not the first thread where Veblen has been trotted out as proof that the top schools charge more money irrespective of any difference in quality or functionality of the services that they provide. A segment of the population will pay a premium for status... period. If it costs more it must be better.</p>
<p>So fine, have it your way. There are thousands of wonderful professors at second and third tier institutions. However, to claim that there aren't differences in the experience of learning at some of these institutions is just plain naive.</p>
<p>
[quote]
There are thousands of wonderful professors at second and third tier institutions. However, to claim that there aren't differences in the experience of learning at some of these institutions is just plain naive.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Hear. Hear. Yes, there are lots of good professors all over the place, because of the bottleneck at the top colleges for finding academic jobs, but there are many more on-the-ball students at the top colleges--even though some illustrious students in each state go to State U or local LAC--and that is a quality difference that matters a lot.</p>
<p>Well, OF COURSE there are differences in experience, and the biggest difference of all being in who attends them. I'm sure we can name other products and services besides colleges where 50% or more of the purchasers come from the economic top 3% of the population.</p>
<p>And I am NOT questioning the value of that. Indeed, I see very great value in it - and I attended one myself, and my older d. attends one as well. I just don't mistake it for being something it is not. Indeed, for myself, it was probably the most valuable part of the experience.</p>
<p>However, I am not in a position to adjudge the value added, as we are paying less than half of what we would have paid at the second-tier state universities in my own state. Someone who is actually paying the differential is in a better position.</p>
<p>""The implication is indeed that we're idiots. An Hermes handbag costs thousands... and it holds your keys, wallet, and cellphone just as nicely as a bag from Target that cost 14.99. Who else but a status conscious idiot would pay such a premium for so little advantage in functionality?""</p>
<p>Could someone who owns a Hermes or a Coach please answer this for real? I wouldn't mind understand myself.</p>
<p>"The implication is indeed that we're idiots. An Hermes handbag costs thousands... and it holds your keys, wallet, and cellphone just as nicely as a bag from Target that cost 14.99. Who else but a status conscious idiot would pay such a premium for so little advantage in functionality?"</p>
<p>Actually, who buys Hermes handbags if they aren't socially conscious?</p>
<p>dstark:</p>
<p>You mean status conscious? Unless the Hermes toting socialites have decided that being socially conscious is another way of competing for status?</p>
<p>Oh I think there are differences. But let's take your pocketbook analogy. If you are Oprah, the Hermes bag cost is insignificant. If you are me, the Target bag might be a piece of junk that would fall apart & look cheesey. So I buy a Coach bag on sale at the outlet center, knowing it will last for years & years. Perhaps I'd have to drop down to a less expensive bag, without the name recognition, but very well crafted & attractive. Maybe blossom would be able to swing the Coach at full price, or find the Hermes worth the investment. </p>
<p>Problem is, we budgeted for a Coach bag when our financial advisor worked those numbers when D was born. But tuitions are now approaching the Hermes level.</p>
<p>Plus, my H has some industry/university partnerships in place & he hires some of these kids. He doesn't give a hoot which kid is public, and which is private. This gives me confidence to believe great opportunities exist for both. You just can't generalize.</p>
<p>I'm confused. Are we saying here that choosing to go to an Ivy or other top school has nothing to do with prestige?? Of course prestige has something to do with it. And so do other factors, like quality of education or "fit" or desire to be surrounded by other good "brains".<br>
Why do some kids and parents refuse to even look at excellent their state options? Why not make a comparison? Personally, I'd like to see all the handbags out on the table, do some research and them make my choice. And my choice may be different than others - no big deal. But why refuse to look at the Target handbag??</p>
<p>Ok. I meant socially conscious in a different way.</p>
<p>Actually, who buys Hermes handbags if they aren't status conscious?</p>
<p>I want to know.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Could someone who owns a Hermes or a Coach please answer this for real? I wouldn't mind understand myself.
[/quote]
LOL! Somehow I can't see you shopping for Hermes bags! They can cost $40,000. It is so far out of my league that I don't know anything about them. I assume they are beautifully made from wonderful materials. A Coach bag might go for about $250-500 and is made of leather that will withstand being run over by a truck. They offer classic styles that won't go "out of style," so frugal shoppers can justify the expense. Think Hermes= Ferrari, Coach = 3 series BMW.</p>
<p>I should mention that in my middle class town, some of son's 3rd grade classmates were carrying Coach bags. Generally those cute ones aimed at teens and running about $150. The kids need someplace to carry their ipods, right?</p>
<p>There are some towns where, if you drive a 3-series BMW, you are looked down upon, because it's not good enough. According to the commercials, you are what you drive, right? Which makes you not good enough. ;)</p>