College Counselor at Overseas High School?

Parents Forum
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<p>Hi, everyone, </p>

<p>I've been going through some life transitions recently, as my dad, who was paralyzed for the last six years after a slip and fall on Minnesota's late-season ice, just died last week. (His funeral was yesterday.) My activities the past several years have been focused mostly on caring for my young children (including homeschooling them), caring for my dad to give some relief to his second wife, and volunteering for our state's gifted education organization for parents (of which I am a member of the board of directors) and its homeschooling support group. </p>

<p>I just heard from a friend overseas that there is an expatriate school in a country where I lived until shortly before my dad's accident that is looking for a college admission counselor for its staff. I intend to apply for that job. I don't have the usual public school counseling credentials, but I do have an undergraduate degree in the predominant language of that country (which is spoken by many of the students at the school and just about all of the staff) and maybe after my volunteer work of the past few years and my involvement on CC I have some ability to help high school students plan for college. The school is privately operated and accredited by one of the regional accreditation associations in the United States, and perhaps is more flexible in hiring counselors than a United States public school could be. For sure I could help young people at that school better in preparing for college than my high school counselor at a public school in Minnesota did back in the 1970s. </p>

<p>I know some of the parents who post here are currently living overseas, and some have experience with expatriate K-12 schools in various countries. What should I know as I apply? What trade-offs should I remember about living overseas (which I have done twice before, for three-year stays)? What do you look for in a high school counselor on college admission issues for your child?</p>

2

<p>I'm very sorry to hear of your dad's death. How wonderful for all of you that you have been able to be with him during the past years. My condolences to you and your family.</p>

3

<p>tokenadult, please accept my condolences for the loss of your father. And best wishes to you on this career possibility; there is no question that your knowledge would be invaluable to students trying to negotiate the college process.</p>

4

<p>Hello,
I too just loss my dad...but the career change was already in the offing.
I have had 2 children graduate from international schools and attend US universitiies. Nearly all the counselors at their school were certified school counselors from the US and this would be the norm at most of the larger international schools. Smaller and less popular locations might be more flexible- I don't know. At some schools there are counselors just for college admissions. At other schools, they work with the same children from 9-12th grades. It really varies school to school. AT most international schools there is a huge emphasis on college admissions, often at the cost of other pastoral services. </p>

<p>Trade offs on life overseas- a big topic for me at the moment. Distance from family (including college aged children) is mostly a negative at this point (Though maybe I haven't always felt that way). Diversity of community, chances to see the world through the eyes of others and learn from them- huge positive.</p>

<p>As far as the role of college counselor...it will depend highly on the parent population at your school (more than the student population-- in many parts of the world this is still a parental decision!!). The counselors at our school have had to spend a LOT of time helping parents to see the value of schools which on the surface they know nothing about....and in helping them to develop realistic expectations. The cross cultural aspects are the biggest challenge.</p>

<p>What did I want from the counselors- accurate, up to date information about schools about which I might know very little- so that I could be of support to my kids. What did I get, something much less useful at some times...but ultimately good support in application crafting and in getting the children directed to a range of schools. There were ups and downs, but ultimately I didn't have any trouble with them/</p>

<p>Good luck, and condolences.</p>

5

<p>Thanks for the thoughtful replies. I especially appreciate the description of college counseling as it exists in various overseas high schools. Certainly if the school to which I will apply emphasizes conventional credentials, I will not be a successful candidate for the position--because I don't have those credentials. But my friend who alerted me to the opening says the school is still in hiring mode as of this date, so I may as well apply. Maybe the hiring supervisor is an outside-the-box boss, just as I would be an outside-the-box staff member. </p>

<p>My wife (who also does not have the usual schoolteaching credentials, but who does have extensive teaching experience) has already applied for a full-time position in our own school district, teaching Chinese in an elementary language immersion program. I've been told by a local friend here who is a retired teacher that most school districts in this area wait till the last possible minute to hire new teachers, so we may be in suspense as to that application for some months. Life is full of interesting trade-offs.</p>

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<p>Sorry about your father. I lost my father while we were living in Germany, (3 years ago this month, but still feels raw) and it is one of my biggest regrets that I wasn't close enough to be of help. It is also one of the biggest reasons why we aren't willing to go back anytime soon - still have 3 elderly parents who may need us.</p>

<p>Leaving the kids isn't as bad for us - because they go away to school anyway. When we lived overseas, they were a lot more willing to come home for the summer!</p>

<p>Is this a country you've lived in before? The learning curve for culture was huge for me. I'm not clear about your wife's job - it is stateside? Is she okay with leaving? How is the dollar doing against whatever currency you'd be dealing with? Also look at how it will affect your financial aid. Colleges were absolutely clueless when we tried to explain that our overseas income and benefits, when translated into dollars, was not an accurate portrayal of our actual stateside income. We wrote pages of explanation. This year, FAFSA and the colleges have flagged us because our income is less than half of what it was last year - duh! It's just something we had to accept. </p>

<p>I hope you would be given good assistance for things like filing taxes (German tax forms make US ones look simple), not to mention usual things like rental contracts and utilities, and settling in.</p>

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<p>The city would be new but I've had two three-year stays in the country and my wife grew up in that country and one of my children was born there. Two of our aged relatives (my wife's parents) are over there, so it's reasonable to consider making the move in view of which older relatives are most in need of help.</p>

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<p>tokenadult, I'm sorry to hear about your dad. Among your 9000+ posts here on CC there is a ton of good, solid advice you've given to both kids and adults. I have no experience in the overseas college consulting, so can not offer any advice, but I'd say you should be more than qualified to do the job. If you ever need a reference, I'm sure the CC community will help. Just send the requestor our way :)</p>

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<p>Hi tokenadult - I too must start by sharing your sorrow about the loss of your father. You have been very helpful here at CC and in your family too - it sounds like.
I worked at a large international school in Asia as a counselor and agree with some of the above postings - the hiring situation is totally dependent upon the size and pedigree of the school. Singapore American School (large, traditional, world-wide reputation, high paying) is highly unlikely to hire a
non-credentialed person, but a smaller school very well may, especially if most of the students are locals and you speak the local language. If it appeals - give it a try!
Agree TOTALLY with the post about finances - find out what currency you will be paid in, the tax situation, and the fin. aid repurcussions for your college students. Sometimes if your school supplies housing, utilities, school lunches, etc all of that is converted to income for fin aid purposes and it can be a bad scenerio. You have much knowledge to apply already and you can learn quickly. It will likely be other factors that play into your decision.</p>

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<p>My kids have been in overseas schools for 12 years now, but I can't think of much to add to the above posts. (LOL, I just added two more things to this post...)</p>

<p>Oh, I do have one suggestion, I've found workshops inviting the parents to come in and brainstorm about things that worked during the college hunt to be very valuable. </p>

<p>Be sure to bring along that big map of the US with all the college locations on it.</p>

<p>Keep in mind that expat kids (even from the US) might want to apply to schools in the UK, Australia, Canada, etc. So, you will need to do a little more homework on some of those unknowns.</p>

<p>When you get the job, let us know.
(Seems like you'd be the logical pick, but how do you document CC contributions on an application?)</p>

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<p>Is this an international school catering largely for expatriates or one with a sudent body drawn largely from the home population? Or one with a mixed student body? These are important distinctions which will influence the type of college counseling required. I'm assuming the school you're talking about is in Asia. A school of the second category will aim at placing students in top rank colleges, therefore you will encounter what the CC community generally condemns as emphasis on 'prestige' - realistically though this is really an emphasis on international name recognition which makes sense in the context.</p>

<p>If it's a school catering for expatriates, are these mostly American? If it's a truly international school (eg an IB school), the counselor will need experience with non-US applications. </p>

<p>I currently have a child at an international high school in the UK . Previously both my children were at an international school in HK. And my own education was entirely at international schools, after which I took my first degree at Harvard for which I have interviewed many international students. I just got the list of 20012 international admits: : very impressive showing from Asia. For example, 9 students admitted from 5 different schools in Singapore, 4 from 3 different schools in RoK.</p>

<p>Finally, worst thing about being an expat in my own experience has been being far from elderly parents and the enormous guilt that can ensue. You however can take comfort in knowing you gave your father so much love and care at the end of his life. Good luck with your decision.</p>

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<p>token, 17 year expatriate here. Without knowing the country or the school it's difficult to generalize. My son attended two international schools. Both were taught in the American system but served student bodies that were likely to attend college just about anywhere in the world. </p>

<p>If that is the case with your potential school then that is probably the biggest challege: understanding the intricacies of American college admissions is hard enough, but advising on Europe, UK, Asia, Australia etc is exponentially more complex. </p>

<p>One thing I can say unilaterally is that the kids and the parents hunger for professional help in every aspect of the college search and application process. Education is a hot-button worldwide; everyone wants more and better. </p>

<p>To me, common sense and current information is far more important than a professional counseling degree, but it may not be easy to convince the hiring committee that you know what to do to help get their kids into good colleges.</p>

<p>I've greatly enjoyed my expat life and my son's international school experience was one of the highlights. If I were younger I would do exactly what you're proposing. The comraderie and energy among the teachers and administrators at my son's schools has been enviable.</p>

<p>Of course, there are down sides too. Distance from family and friends is a big one. I just came back from a US trip and spending a few days with my son. Now that he's employed it's not so easy for him to get away for a week or two so our visits are limited and I really, really miss the informal get togethers.</p>

<p>The first package that you get will be with you for as long as you stay in country, even if you change jobs so be sure to negotiate hard. There are so many variables but as others have mentioned be very, very clear on what is being offered and try to ferret out hidden contingencies. Have a must-have list and an it-would-be-nice list of perquisites. The basics are salary (including currency adjustment), tax equalization, housing, transportation, home leave and insurance. There are plenty of other less obvious expenses to consider, like utilities, club membership, emergency travel and on and on.</p>

<p>If there is a chance for your wife to work at the same school, either as a fulltime teacher or a support staff, that would be a bargaining point as international schools often go for two-fers.</p>

<p>Good luck at this transitional time of life.</p>

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<p>My condolences to you. I just lost my mother and my father within the last year and a half. My mom lived with me and died just over two months ago. </p>

<p>That said, the trade-offs depend so much on where you are. As you can see, I was able to bring my elderly mother to live with me. My son is in the States and I am travelling there in a few days to spend my Easter break in the Wisconsin spring. I am leaving temps in the 80s! Nevermind. I used to love travel and I really now only do long trips for my family. I have been an expat for over 18 years and counting. I don't know really where I belong and that has its disadvantages and advantages. The schools can be great. They can be full of problems too. There is much online now concerning various locations. The students at my school are heading mostly to European universities. Some go to the States. I think you can quickly pick up the tools you will need to help the students especially since you are here and are interested in the topics on CC. As others have said, people, parents and students are hungry for correct information and someone to advise them who truly cares about the process.</p>

<p>These schools and the international upbringing can be great for your children. I stayed overseas for mine and I was talking to a friend who called last night whose children grew up overseas and we were mentioning that they, the children, understand that it is a big world out there. My son has friends everywhere. His perspective is different than it would have been if I had stayed in the States. So for your children if they are young, I would go. If first you don't succeed you can move on. Also, I have heard from various quarters that there is a teacher shortage overseas right now. There are more and more schools being built throughout the world. But again, the packages offered can be like night and day. Best of luck in your quest. It would be a good change after the years you have spent tending to your Dad.</p>

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<p>"I have heard from various quarters that there is a teacher shortage overseas right now."</p>

<p>That's what we hear from the principals at our International school too - competition is fierce at the hiring fairs. They say that they used to be able to set up their table, do interviews and leave with most of their positions filled. Now most of the work happens online and they go to the fair with the majority of interview slots already filled - sometimes to find that teachers have already signed contracts with another school before they even get to interview them.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the further comments. I really appreciate hearing from so many CC parents who have experience with this issue. </p>

<p>Why would there be a teacher shortage overseas? I wouldn't have expected that.</p>

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<p>I dunno. If I was a teacher, I'd look for an overseas job first. My sister in law (teaching in a public school in the states) is stunned when I tell her about average class size (18 is a big class at our elementary school), creative license, etc. I don't know about the perks, but I suspect there is also cost of living and hardship location compensation. Plus, it is easy to see exotic locations when you are living in the middle of Asia. </p>

<p>Oh, well, there is the security issue. Weird things like governments being overthrown happen sometimes. And there have been disgruntled bombings in some of the countries we've lived in. But, the International High Schools are much safer than those in the states.</p>

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<p>I found this online and will pass it on. Personally, I think it has to do with more schools overseas now then twenty years ago, competing for fewer U.S. trained teachers. The schools that pay well and that have decent "packages" have no problem retaining and recruiting new staff.</p>

<p>Headline on April 2008 "The International Educator" at Tieonline.com </p>

<p>"AAIE & AISH To Tackle Recruitment Crisis.
Task Force Being Formed to Address Candidate Shortages." </p>

<p>This article covers a Sunday meeting in New York of the heads of schools to discuss reasons for crisis and solutions. Remarks had to do with job fairs: fighting for candidates, not being able to have 3 or 4 interviews with teachers the heads are interested in, not having time to go over their resumes and info, leaving without having filled their positions, etc. </p>

<p>The reasons given, particularly for the acute shortage of American teachers, but all teachers as well, were given as lack of advertising and lack of knowledge concerning intl teaching. Only one woman brought up salary saying, in my words, not hers, teachers want to have the salary they deserve sooner rather than after completion of 20 years of teaching. </p>

<p>When discussing what needs to be done about this shortage, it was felt primarily that informative advertising needs to be done as most teachers in their home countries know nothing about international teaching. It was even suggested that they go on Oprah to talk about it. They felt if they could just get 1% of the 3.5 million American teachers to recruit it would give them what they need. No mention of improving salaries, benefits, retirement, etc. in the article at all. Hmmmm.</p>