There’s no assurance she’ll apply to or get into med school.
There is no question here. U of A is a fine school.
Any school strangling you financially is not a good choice.
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Reality check
Below is link to most recently available US med school admissions. Take a look at UCLA (Geffen) admission stats. 13,122 people applied to fill a class of 173. Of the 173 (59.5% or 103) were instate (not necessarily from UCLA). Also note that of the 55000+ applications submitted, there was an average of 18 applicants submitted per applicant. Although you and your D can dream for a UCLA med school acceptance, the reality is D will need to submit a number of applications, probably both in and out of state, hoping for one acceptance anywhere. As noted above med school is very expensive and will be even more when D graduates from wherever. Take the full scholarship to UA.
Good luck to you and your D.
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I’m going to be blunt.
For a pre-med student, giving up a full ride at U of A to pay full out of state costs to attend UCLA is stupid. Financially, very foolish.
In terms of opportunities for a pre-med student, I would argue that it might even be EASIER to get access to pre-med type of extracurriculars at U of A than UCLA. For example, at U of A, there’s a campus shuttle that you can take from the main campus to the med school campus at UMC (University Medical Center). I think it’s about a 10-15 min bus ride.
Med school (depending on where you get in) can easily cost $300,000. So then add $50,000/yr for 4 yr on top of that to attend UCLA for undergrad, and let’s assume that all of that, too, is student & parent PLUS loans. Then by the time your kid is done with med school, they owe $500,000.
That’s a really nice house right there.
But right after med school, you aren’t earning the $200k+ per year. You’re working for pennies as a resident and depending on your specialty, that can take a few years to get through that.
In the meantime, once you’re out of undergrad & grad school, all of those loans have interest that is compounding upon itself every month. The private and unsubsidized loans start accruing interest right away. So the $500k your kid owes turns into more than that.
U of A being a full ride equals financial freedom. It will mean that when your kid graduates from med school and is done with residency, they can choose to take that dream job for less money if they wanted to. Why? Because they have fewer student loans to pay off.
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Also, one thing to keep in mind if one is considering parent PLUS loans…even if you’re retired, no longer working, and now collecting social security, you STILL have to pay the parent PLUS loans back.
I mention this because there are some parents who thought they were doing the right thing by going up to their & their kid’s eyeballs in educational debt so their kid could go to an elite university, and then went to an extremely expensive med school for big $$ costs…and the parents later on ended up living like paupers in retirement because Uncle Sam still required them to pay on the parent PLUS loans.
…and if you declare bankruptcy, guess what? You STILL have to pay the parent PLUS loans back.
On the “Your College Bound Kid” podcast a few months ago, they talked about this topic and discussed 1 extreme example where the student ended up owing something crazy like $700,000-800,000.
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Here is a thought. Save your $200,000 or $300,000 to help with costs for medical school…if you so choose. You will be able to do this if you don’t spend a huge chunk of it on undergrad college costs.
IOW, take the free ride to University of Arizona. Keep that money of yours in a high interest account, and then it might be available for medical school in four or five years.
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As long as they can still fund their retirement.
Being an Honors student at U of A is WAY BETTER for med school than being a random student at UCLA.
First, in the 1st round of cuts, before human eyes, the college the student attended does not appear at all. It’s all, classes taken, grades, science GPA, overall GPA, Mcat score, etc.
In the second round, experiences guaranteed by Honors at UofA are valued and make or break the application (but won’t be easily available at UCLA if at allw bc instead of being one among the top few like at UofA, she’ll be one among literally thousands.)
Finally, a full ride means freedom to pursue highly valued experiences even if they’re unpaid or in a remote area. It frees up time she’d have to spend working at a random part time job otherwise (time she can spend in clinical experience or volunteering or making sure she gets an A). It allows your daughter to prioritize what will matter for med school.
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Why would you do intentionally do this to your family?
I will be completely realistic and blunt. There are dozens of people here, with experience who are asking you not to cripple your future, but you are trying to justify why she must attend UCLA. I get your train of thought.
I’m the child of immigrants and I know that my parents would spare no expense to provide me with a decent education. The problem is that they DID NOT HAVE the MONEY and didn’t understand loans.
AS a PARENT, I get where you are coming from:
You want her at UCLA so that you can show the family back home, your acquaintances/friends because you want to show your success in raising a competent child, no matter what the cost to you and this is a really bad thing. You need to check your Ego. You are setting yourself up for disaster, but I understand that this is what you want.
“Wow, YOUR CHILD goes to UCLA, you must be so proud!”
Please don’t become so BLINDED by your needs to “show off” a [color=red]successful daughter[/color] that you will both go into horrible debt for your family and for your daughter’s future.
With this type of debt, neither she, nor you, will be able to qualify for a loan for a car, or a condo/home, and severely cripple any future plans for weddings, and family events. What if you lose your home? That DOES happen. It’s not an extreme circumstance. It does happen.
What if you become seriously ill? We, the parents, are aging. Can you guarantee her that you wont become ill? What if she can’t get through UCLA? It is fiercely competitive and on a quarter system. The loan payment will NOT stop. There are no excuses to a debt collector. You can file for bankruptcy but those college loans will still be there.
I’m sorry that you STILL want to send her to UCLA because it’s not just for her, it’s your dream as well because you weren’t able to do it for yourself.
It is just NOT affordable for you, and I know that this unaffordability does not matter to you. You will run out of money. You may end up homeless, and, as my volunteer experience at a homeless shelter in California, I can tell you that there are a LOT of people there just like you, who also didn’t want to hear that something is unaffordable.
Why are you so against sending her to U of A?
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Sorry all for any confusion or anger caused. We are not trying to send her to UCLA because of showing off or prestige, we were just worried about her job and career prospects.
A doctor friend of ours went to ivy for undergrad and told loans were worth better ranked college. He said there is network connections and better education and overall advantage she will not get at state college. As we are hearing different opinions and are not very financially informed or informed about how medicine works in this country we just got confused. We just wanted what was best for her because she is very hardworking and it made us feel guilty, as she is chose UA but we weren’t sure if it was only because of finances but she is ensuring us she will be okay.
Thank you all for final input it has been very very helpful to hear from so many people. She will be heading to UA in fall😊
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A full ride at a state flagship (ie., THE university in her state) is something to be incredibly proud of. It is quite uncommon. “Full ride merit scholarship” can be on her resume in addition to Honors College (and that’s before she takes advantage of all the opportunities unlocked by the Honors College, which will offer her so many ways to show what she’s capable of).
If you want to “give” her a reward, offer to pay for study away/abroad. Or rent for a medical-related internship somewhere. Or to help pay for med school or for her living expenses her first year of med school.
I’m sure your friend is well-meaning but UCLA is not like the Ivy League. That’s not how it works for med school anyway.
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Well our daughter graduated from her UC Med school in 2020 and her professors/physicians came from every university in the country. Your physician friend wont be repaying your loan. Your physician friend didn’t have loans that are in the ½ million$ range. My loans and my physician’s colleagues loans about 40 years ago, were for ~$10K per year. I don’t know the age of your doctor friend, but I imagine his loan wasn’t what you are planning to take on.
I have dozens of physician colleagues from my hospital experiences and many of them complained of being tied to their loans for years. The alumni networks are huge now and they mostly meet up at required educational conferences. Jobs are based on your work ethic and given the litigious nature now, I doubt the “network” connections at a UC are as a good as you think they will be. The UCs aren’t ivies. They are LARGE PUBLIC UNIVERSITIES funded by the State. She’ll be in very, very large freshman, competitive classes at UCLA.
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I forgot to add: You might not be able to qualify for any loans, for all of this expense, because your resources might not be sufficient collateral.
if she’s in the middle of her program, and you both run out of money, you will be stuck.
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After 100% agreement that the OP’s daughter should take the full ride, the OP has closed the loop on this thread. Not sure there’s anything more to add.
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Congratulations and best wishes!
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Hey all!
OP’s daughter here (grabbed the phone from mom haha). Apologies - I think my parents are just confused. They’re definitely experiencing a lot of guilt about my choice to go to UA, especially with a lot of comments/media we’ve seen/received from teachers, doctors, and classmates (ex. “You’re stupid to turn down guaranteed med it’s gonna cost you a lot anyway…” or “go to the best ranked undergrad you can it’s worth the opportunities and the name alone will give you an advantage…”). I was also fortunate to be accepted to some places like Northwestern, UW, Case Western, etc. - I turned these places down because they were too expensive and far away (UCLA I only kept open because we didn’t receive updated aid info yet and my parents were considering relocating to CA bc it was closer). Obviously, I can’t say the aforementioned remarks about turning down better ranked colleges/guaranteed med being a mistake don’t scare me/make me feel sad, but ultimately I think some of them are unrealistic to my situation.
This entire college process has made me realize that there’s a lot of unnecessary elitism and classism that surrounds higher education in this country, something that significantly disadvantages first-gen students like me. My parents witnessed several people give up full-rides to UA for better ranked colleges (I believe for USC?) and felt guilty that I didn’t do the same. Please don’t get angry at my parents - I take full accountability for not doing more research into the long-term financial aspects of college/medical school beforehand, although in retrospect I also know that my 17 year old self would have had no way of fully understanding this (or her financial situation) by herself (my public school didn’t have college counseling) which is exactly why forums like this are valuable. Reading through all of your replies has not only been incredibly insightful (especially about the military caveats), they’ve just further reaffirmed my choice of where to go. UA actually has some awesome programs in certain things I’m interested in anyway, and don’t worry, I have sorted out my classes/dorms for the fall.
My parents have just been doing their best to shed as much light on the situation as they can and I guess that was also resorting to this forum. If anyone is willing to offer any further advice on college/life in general to a first-gen, please don’t hesitate to reach out <3 Anyway, a big thank you all for everything and apologies for any inconvenience caused. Bear Down!
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No apologies necessary at all - I don’t think anyone here is angry - just shocked and concerned. (If we’re angry at anyone, it’s the people who have been criticizing your decision and making your parents feel guilty.) You are 1000% making the right choice, and nothing about that choice is going to hold you back in life. I’m glad you posted, and relieved to read that you feel settled about the excellent decision you have made. I have no doubt that you’re going to knock it out of the park at UA, and have a bright future, both because of your own potential and because you’ll have no debt to weigh you down and limit your options. Big congratulations on earning that full ride, and best of luck - I hope you’ll come back at some point with an update and perhaps a “Why my choice was the right one” thread to help future students like yourself. All the best!!
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The main thing that I would add is already mentioned in my post above. Premed classes will be academically quite demanding, and will be full of very strong students. Plan to make a very strong effort to stay ahead in your course work. Start your homework early, perhaps the day that it is assigned if you reasonably can. Plan to spend at least some time on weekends studying (although taking Saturday evening off is usually a good idea).
Regarding premed versus research, you can figure this out while you are a student. As I mentioned above one daughter discovered only as a university student that she loved lab work. She just jumped into this part way through university and has ended up doing very well in biotech research. She is still trying to decide whether to do graduate work in the future, and whether this should be a master’s or a PhD. Our other daughter was leaning towards veterinary medicine even back in high school, was never quite sure, and only figured this out after spending a lot of time working and volunteering in veterinary situations. She took a couple of gap years after getting her bachelor’s before applying to DVM programs.
As a potential premed student, you will want to get a lot of experience in medical environments. Most premed students get quite a bit of experience while they are in university getting their bachelor’s degree. However, it is very common to also take some time after getting your bachelor’s degree before applying to MD programs, and this provides more opportunities to get experience in a medical environment.
The last thing that I will mention is that U of A you will find that there are quite a few opportunities. There will be professors doing research in a lot of areas, and professors cooperating with outside research groups. They will be looking for students to help out in various ways. There will also be a very wide range of different types of research and course work going on. In four years you will never see most of what is going on, but you will be exposed to quite a bit and will have many opportunities.
Best wishes and I expect that you will do very well.
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This! Congratulations, and enjoy college!
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Hand the phone back. Sharing accounts is not allowed
Congratulations
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I would recommend reading The Naked Roommate by Harlan Cohen. Based on real questions and real issues freshmen encountered, practical and good overview for a first gen kid who may not know what to expect.
Second, make sure to go to office hours right from the beginning. During the lecture, during discussions, while reading the assigned material: write questions that pop up, in your notebook’s margins to find them easily. Then go ask them during office hours. You may want further explanation, go more in-depth about a point or concept you found especially interesting, get further reading about sth, or admit you didn’t quite understand sth.
Sometimes students worry they’ll annoy the professor.
Quite the contrary:
Professors will be delighted to see you, because most freshmen only show up a week before midterms (to ask about the midterms) or after the midterm (bc they can’tget over their grade). Here they are, sitting in their office, ready to answer questions about something they’re passionate about, and no one cares enough to show up. Freshmen who show up with questions about their subject= 
Handwriting helps memorization. Typing is faster but doesn’t. Find what works best for you.
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