college fencing recruiting

Athletic Recruits
81

<p>And I checked the current Women’s Foil points lists, looking at HS class of 2014, because those are the girls I recognize.</p>

<p>Only 11 girls from the class of '14 are even in the top 50 on the USFA junior points list right now – of course, more will move up next year as they improve and others age out.</p>

<p>Only 6 girls from the class of '14 are in the top 50 on the USFA senior points list, and that’s not likely to change much in the next year. It hasn’t changed much in the past.</p>

<p>So it’s really hard to characterize in terms of absolute rankings as opposed to relative ones. It looks like my daughter’s year will be one with recruiting opportunities for relatively weaker fencers.</p>

<p>My advice, CollegeFanatic, is to try for the World Cup Circuit Cadet and Junior Championship teams, if you can afford it. You’ll get exposure to different fencers and buckets of points, and you’ll get to know the US competition in your year really, really well.</p>

82

<p>the 2012 WF class was the strongest and tightest group they have all fenced one another since 2005 and it’s been the same girls,and out of that group of 6/7 girls you had the same four win Y-10/12/Cadet/Junior/Senior -NAC/JO or SN over that six year period----with girls from 2010(2) or 2011(2) being the winners for four events between that time period 2005-2012.</p>

<p>maybe it’s just me, but I’d also look into the relationships that coaches have with some of the club operators, USFA presidents etc…more than a few deals are brokered at schools that have fencing money where the trade off is academic strength(fencers are not all Ivy material and more than a few that academically talented will have opportunities to fence that athletically talented fencers will not get.) So merit might not be as important as having a nice crony lurking in your background somewhere.</p>

<p>after all this is fencing and this sport does have history of having a not so clean underbelly. :)</p>

83

<p>Our son is currently a softmore in HS, and loves fencing. He started competing about 1.5 years ago, first in foil and then epee as well. He quickly earned a B rating in Epee, and has worked up to a C in Foil with a good deal more potential in both weapons. He has been competing in JO’s, Nationals, and other NAC’s for the past year. He was on the Y14 points list in epee last year, but aged out and competing in Cadets, Jrs and Open Divisions. Do you have any advice on what to do over the next 1-2 years help get into a good school’s fencing program? Is there any advantage to continue in both weapons, or better to focus on one? I believe we can start talking to coaches after June 15, so shall we try to set up some meetings at Nationals? Would it be good to attend a camp this summer at a school he may be interested in? He would like to consider some of the Ivy League schools or Stamford, but not sure if that is realistic. His grades are good, ~3.8 GPA, but not 4.0. We heard many coaches are already focusing on their top picks by the Spring of the fencer’s Jr year, so guess we have about a year to make a good impression and connection. Let us know any advice you may have.</p>

84

<p>Good questions; I’ll try them one at a time.

Your son is off to a great start, but he’s got a long way to go to be recruited. My best advice would be for him to take a LOT of lessons and compete as much as possible.</p>

<p>

Complicated question, and a lot depends on his coach. Most coaches concentrate on one weapon. What your son has done, beginning with foil and then adding epee is, in my opinion, the best possible developmental path. The point control learned in foil transfers to epee very well. A few years ago a foilist who had never had an epee lesson and had only competed in epee at local events a few times entered Y14 epee at a NAC just “for fun” and ended up winning the event. He still specializes in foil, but has filled in for his college team a few times when they needed an epeeist.</p>

<p>

I’d hold off on scheduling meetings until next summer, but I wouldn’t be shy about approaching and speaking with college coaches if you get a chance. Most are very approachable.</p>

<p>

Probably not. These camps are primarily designed to generate revenue for the school and the coaches don’t view the participants as prospects. The students like to think of themselves as prospects, but it never works out that way.</p>

<p>

These are probably not realistic, but some other great schools might be. Ask him to consider Brandeis, Haverford, Vassar, and possibly Johns Hopkins.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

85

<p>I’m going to go for it. I’m going to start building a fencing area in my garage, get some outside coaching, and start a vigorous cross training regime. I’ve set my goal, and even if I don’t reach it, well, I tried. Thanks for all of your support and your advice!</p>

86

<p>just an FYI, </p>

<p>I am on another fencing web-site where the 2011 fencing expense information was posted for all men’s & women’s programs. I’m sure in that it includes the total expenses (travel/equipment/scholarship/salary items) and it could also serve as a gauge of just what is available.</p>

87

<p>A suggestion for FencingDad – if your son has time, he should take the referee class at Summer Nationals. (Go to fencingofficials.org to learn more). If he qualifies to referee in both foil and epee, it’s another way to keep his hand in both weapons. He’ll learn a lot from watching others fence, plus it helps demonstrate to colleges that he is serious about this activity.</p>

88

<p>^ great advice</p>

89

<p>and he might even get called out to officiate while participating at an NCAA event,like one OSU fencer; who is saber &foil qualified this past January. :)</p>

90

<p>Sherpa-great info you give here. My d is going to be a junior this coming year, is on points list, and will probably be in top 15 by recruiting time. Problem-only 1860 SAT. 560CR, 600M, 700W. 580 SAT subject test in math. Is she HYP recruitable? Would being one of the top fencers in the country (has also fenced internationally) make up for mediocore scores? Would you or anyone else know this?</p>

91

<p>I’m posting from my phone and will add more later. First thought is she has a full year to bring her scores up. What’s her GPA and how rigorous is her course load?</p>

92

<p>If you look upthread, you’ll see that I am facing this problem right now, and the answer is that she is probably not HYP recruitable with those scores. The rule I was given was not to bother with any school where your child would not be in the middle 50% of accepted students. For HYP, that means at least 690 on each part.</p>

<p>The good news is that I’ve found some more focused work with a tutor can really help, and my d is now scoring close to 2100 on practice tests. </p>

<p>As for the subject tests, most schools these days only require two and suggest that one should be either science or math. I would suggest that she take the SAT II in June for whatever science she is taking right now – she’ll never be more prepared than at the end of a year of subject study – and if it’s higher than 580, don’t submit the math score.</p>

93

<p>Don’t hold out much hope for 690 on all three, already had SAT tutor because of PSAT scores. GPA around 3.5. No AP classes yet, signed up for 2 junior year. Defintely stronger in fencing than in academics. Maybe around 25th percentile of class. Help!</p>

94

<p>560CR and 700W - he probably skipped a page or misbubbled in the CR section. CR score will go up next time. Sign him up for ACT in June - maybe he will like it better - and then repeat the preferred test in the fall after Summer prep. He obviously has issues with Math but Math is easier to improve. Anyone who is willing to do the SAT Blue test book and continuously review all problem Math questions with a tutor or relative should be able to get at least 650M. He still has time.</p>

95

<p>Will try but concensus is her SAT will not be above 1900. My question would then be if at that level of academics and fencing, what would be target schools to talk to coaches with? A fencing scholorship wouldn’t hurt either, our income is around 160k, does anyone know if that would qualify for need at ivy’s? (I know they don’t give athletic scholorships).</p>

96

<p>Sand,
She will qualify for finaid in most Ivies unless you have a lot of savings. If your financial situation is straighforward go explore financial aid calculators on the schools web sites.
I know nothing about fencing recruiting and just trying to help based on our experience with another individual sport. You know they superscore SAT for AI? So your sophomore daughter already has 700W and you are convinced that she will never break 600 on 2 other parts of the test? Is she willing to study? I assume that a successfull athlete in an individual sport is used to practice a lot to perfect her craft and does not like to lose. Just ask her to treat this testing as a competition. Spring of sophomore year I took my daughter who was a stubborn A- student to a HARD CORE SAT PREP place and they gave her a practice test where she scored below 1500 on 3 parts. She felt very offended (I know these places give you unusually hard placement tests but their objectives matched mine) and afterwards was willing to follow the plan of attack that we devised for her. One mistake we did was not taking ACT early. She finally took ACT last week and her reaction after the test was that this was a piece of cake comparing to SAT (we have no scores yet). So your daughter absolutely should take ACT and that may help greatly and even spare the need for SATIIs. And finally some Ivys do not require SATIIs at all and give out offers to their top recruits as soon as ok SAT is available spring junior year. Yes you will have more recruiting options if SATII is available but you may not even need it.</p>

97

<p>Schools with NCAA women’s fencing are at the high end of the academic spectrum. But I would look closely at Lafayette, Drew, Temple, St. John’s, Penn State, Ohio State. </p>

<p>You might also look at schools that meet her academic criteria but have only club fencing if they have well-established programs that compete against many NCAA teams, like Boston College.</p>

<p>It might also make sense to look at the remaining women’s colleges – they are often schools who admit a broader range of applicants and are committed to women’s sports.</p>

<p>As for aid, do the net price calculators on each school’s website to get an idea of their policies, because they differ. Yale thought we could afford to pay $17K a year more for my son than Princeton did.</p>

<p>At your income range, without special circumstances, you probably will pay nearly the same contribution at an Ivy-level school that makes need-based offers as at a less prestigious school that offers merit money. So concentrate on aggressively courting those schools where your daughter is more likely to be admitted.</p>

<p>If you’re not familiar with it, take a look at the College Solution blog for ways to identify those schools.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

98

<p>

Exactly. This won’t be an exhaustive list, but for me the first that come to mind are Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Stanford, Columbia/Barnard, Brown, Penn, Cornell, Northwestern, Duke, Notre Dame, Haverford, Brandeis, Vassar, Johns Hopkins, and the Air Force Academy. Arguably Lafayette belongs in this group too.

These are excellent suggestions. Still, I wouldn’t be too quick to give up on the more academically competitive schools. You may need 700s for HYPS, but it will gradually drop off from there. Barnard might be realistic with only a slight improvment in scores.</p>

<p>An 1860 or 1900 as a sophomore isn’t a bad score. With some good focused practice, an increase of 100 points per section in a year is very do-able. And she can try the ACT. Both my kids did better on the ACT, and all these schools accept either test, as long as it’s the ACT with Writing. At some schools, including Columbia, Duke, Yale, Brown, and Barnard, if you take the ACT w/ writing you don’t need SAT Subject Tests.</p>

<p>To me, the bigger question might be whether she’d be happy at a super rigorous college. Some kids’ first choice would be to “major in fencing” at PSU or OSU with a scholarship; others would rather parlay their fencing talent into an opportunity to go to the best possible school.</p>

<p>My kids are at Princeton and Duke. The academics are demanding, and of course time management is a challenge for a competitive athlete.</p>

<p>Good luck to your daughter, and keep asking questions. I’ll do my best to help.</p>

99

<p>My 2 cents…I just started researching fencing colleges, my son is a HS freshman. My oldest however went to an Ivy, was recruited for crew. Was talented academically as well, so getting in was no problem. Some of his buddys, however, while superior athletes, didn’t quite make it academically. Coaches told them that they needed to be in top 10% of class with outstanding GPA’s if their SAT’s were under 2100. Coaches can pull up a student in the low range of their critera, but they cannot perform miracles. </p>

<p>My question is why would you want your child to go to a school where she would probably be at the bottom academically? Most kids in HYP were at the top of their class, with SAT’s over 2200. The classes and workload can be very rigorous, add a varsity sport to that and it could be overwhelming.</p>

<p>An SAT under 2100 could probably not get her into HYP or any of the Ivys, Stanford, Haverford, Vassar, Notre Dame, Duke or Northwestern. However, from my limited research, I would think a strong fencer with a 1800-1900 SAT could probably get in to Ohio State or Penn State, which have very competitive fencing. Possibly also Barnard, Brandies, Johns Hopkins, and Lafayette which are all good schools. Definately Drew, Temple, and St. Johns, which are far less competetive academically.</p>

<p>I believe Ohio State and Penn State also give fencing scholorships to top fencers, the Ivys and top tier academic schools do not. Income over 140K may get some need based aid, but not much. I think family contributation would still be 30-40K per year.</p>

100

<p>I think we need to define strong fencer…</p>

<p>A strong fencer at OSU/PSU/ND is different from a strong Duke/Northwestern or Drew/UDM fencer. What I think a lot of people are missing here is that a hand full of schools have their pick of the best of imported talent(European Coaches who maintain those ties) and USFA national team members–so there all the fencing money is spent, the rest of the team usually will have some kind of academic money attached to them so they have academic or athlete performance ties that coaches dangle.</p>

<p>Another question and crewmom said it “why would a parent send their kid to a school where they are struggle to get into, when they may have other opportunities elsewhere” I could never figure why forgo an opportunity to attend school on a merit scholarship versus paying to go to an elite school where the opportunity may not be there. There are 43 fencing schools, yet it seems that we concentrate on ten schools here that have their choice of all the available talent in the fencing world, of that 18 students will get that for all six weapons-- and most Ivies have small teams Princeton carries maybe 26,which is roughly what OSU/PSU carry so we are talking a really small number here, but that means that 33 other schools with (academic/athletic) money, academic reputation, great collegiate environments and fencing opportunities are looking for fencers and those schools deserve the same consideration.</p>

<p>I can say this for my daughters class 12, most of the kids that where USFA champions had the HYPCS-ND/OSU/ recruiting them in addition to NYU/USAFA/Duke/Northwestern/BC coming at them, so they had a choice of all these schools right off the bat, of those only four had a real chance at winning the NCAA championship; so the decision needs to be all about school. So, if fencing figures into the equation of these schools you have to have a significant fencing resume and if not why not consider other programs that NEED good student-athletes in their university environments.</p>