college fencing recruiting

Athletic Recruits
141

<p>Coolfencer,</p>

<p>Your current grades and tests scores would give you an academic index of about 223, which should be more that sufficient for Hand P which I believe have an average athletic AI of about 214 (this may have changed). For Stanford it is difficult to know what grades and test scores they are looking for but I think you would probably be in the ballpark. I would fill out an athletic questionnaire for all of these schools now and then email/call the coach one week later. For all of these schools if your SATs need to be higher the coaches will let you know.</p>

142

<p>Coolfencer - Congratulations on your accomplishments. Top 10 in U20 and top 20 in Senior, combined with your strong academics and scores gives you great options.

They’ll want you to get it up to 2100, but they have a little leeway. You’ll also need another SAT II, but there’s plenty of time for that. There’s no reason to wait to contact the coaches.</p>

<p>Here’s what to expect:</p>

<p>Princeton – I expect the coach is aware of your results and ranking and has probably watched you compete. He will welcome your call and be frank with you about your admission prospects. If you’re high on his list of prospects, he’ll tell you exactly what you’ll need to do to be admitted.</p>

<p>Harvard – For years the coach turned away kids who contacted him during their junior year, telling them that by NCAA rule he wasn’t allowed to speak with them, even on his campus, until after their junior year. He was wrong about this, but he remained steadfast and lost some top prospects because of it. I expect he’s re-read the rulebook by now and would take your call, but I don’t know. Be prepared for arrogance.</p>

<p>Stanford – Stanford’s head coach is friendly and has pull, but sends mixed messages and is disorganized. You could be a top recruit and think you’ve fallen off their radar, and still be accepted.</p>

<p>My advice is to contact all of them soon and let it play out. If none of these three pan out, you’ll still have excellent chances at Duke, Penn, Columbia, Brown, and more.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

143

<p>Thank you swimkidsdad and sherpa. Your advises are always helpful and informative. I will definitely start contacting the coaches and hopefully hear good news. </p>

<p>Would it be ok for me to ask the coaches about making unofficial visits? When do you think is the best time to make these visits if allowed?</p>

144

<p>

Yes, there shouldn’t be a problem with scheduling them now, although the H coach might still be confused about the rules. I think the second semester of junior year is the best time for unofficial visits. My kids did them over spring break.</p>

145

<p>Sherpa, thank you for your input. Will follow your recommendation.</p>

146

<p>A junior prospect is not allowed to call a coach, but may contact him/her via email. BTW regarding all the negative talk here about the Yale coach. Great coach but does not recruit that much, and so what. Let’s face it the only individuals who gain anything from fencing recruiting is the prospect and the family. This is not football or B-Ball. Simply put there is very little incentive for college fencing coaches to recruit. So do not expect too much help unless your kids are serious about the sport, and are willing to give back to the program while on the team and after graduation.</p>

147

<p>

I’m assuming that comeprima was typing too fast or something, but this is incorrect. “A coach is not allowed to call a junior prospect” would be accurate, but it is certainly permissible for a HS junior to call a coach. This isn’t fencing specific; it’s NCAA policy.

The incentive for coaches in any sport to recruit the best possible athletes is to field the best possible teams. If they want to win, they need to recruit. Am I missing something?</p>

148

<p>Recruiting v. Expressing an interest to attend a university and fence.</p>

<p>there is a real difference between the two, the Recruit is a WOO WOO where the school/coach identifies the athlete and does whatever to get that athlete to attend his school. In fencing that is very RARE, it happens and I personally thank both Duke & ND for putting my D and myself in that position to visit campus and watch football & basketball games on their dime. That is a recruit.</p>

<p>To the others where we contacted a coach who gave us a few minutes at his/her fencing camp or Summer Nationals/NAC that was our team expressing an interest in wanting to attend their school
one that I was going to get admitted to on my own merit and still work as a student athlete to promote the sport and the school. That’s not recruiting. </p>

<p>see the difference, now Sherpa is correct their is little incentive and coaches recruit the best possible athletes—that said in fencing just look at the teams that contend year in and year out. Also look at the coaches and their staff and countries of origin. Those schools that contend OSU/ND/PSU and I’ll include St. Johns/Princeton & Columbia all have either a roster of Olympians/NAC Champions or the best international imports who can pass the TOEFL exam. Now there are roster spots for other student/athletes but those recruits are FENCERS, and the others fodder, but depending on you goals being a part of the team is better than not being a part of the team.</p>

<p>Now the schools of choice H/Y/B/S/C and I’ll include CIT/MIT will entertain your inquiries, but by and large you are going to get admitted on your won merit and then you’ll be more than happy work for and represent the school. </p>

<p>Now the other schools that have potential to recruit and will entertain your request at a NAC like Duke/Northwestern/UNC/USAFA/Temple/BC/Vassar/CSU/UCSD/UDM/WSU/Brandeis/NYU (the usual suspects that attend NAC events) will entertain your inquiries and in that group some schools are more sought after than others, hence fencing ability becomes an issue so again if you are not a NAC top contender you might find yourself competing again with an international import. Unfortunately, i don’t think the fencing budgets of the listed schools allow for a true recruit, but you can visit the school on your dime and they will make an arrangement or accommodation for your time, but at the end of the day you will be admitted on your own merit and then you can begin your indenture servitude representing the school,and of course you’ll love it. </p>

<p>So of the 44 fencing programs only a few truly recruit or seek out fencers, what I find is that Fencers sell themselves to programs. Trust me if you are a fencing super star the fencing community knows who and where you are, they knew when you were 14-15 y/o’s and are pretty much waiting until they can pounce on you, if you are not in that position you can start your sell during your junior year in high school
</p>

<p>I know this is a harsh, but it’s the reality of “Recruiting in Fencing” I think posting an international imports recruit story will really enlighten people on that piece of the recruit process
</p>

149

<p>Phone calls: In my haste I neglected to specify that while prospects are allowed to call a coach the coach cannot initiate a call nor is he allowed to return a call unless it is after July 1st following the prospect’s completion of his/her junior year.</p>

<p>Recruiting: Here my intention was to make prospects and parents aware that relatively speaking, in fencing, unless you are a coach at ND, PSU, or Ohio State winning does not bring you tangible rewards only bragging rights. It maybe enough for some, but may also account for the anemic work by the coach in this area. This is also reinforced by the fact that losing on the whole does not impact the coach’s job security.</p>

<p>Another fact to consider is that prospects that enjoy the advantages of recruiting are those that already have the advantage of being able to compete for national points because their families have the resources enabling them to take private lessons, and attend NACs and World Cups. My parents simply could not afford the expense so I was strictly a high school fencer who had no opportunity to compete at a higher level. So the fact that the Yale coach was not an aggressive recruiter actually afforded me and others like me the opportunity to enjoy full participation with the Yale fencing program (Thanks coach).</p>

<p>Lastly, I also want to note that during my college search I had the opportunity to meet with a fairly good number of college fencing coaches. All of them including the Harvard coach were very generous with their time and advice.</p>

150

<p>Hello! I am a new member and I wanted to find out more about fencing and college opportunities it may open. I have a daughter who is very tall for her age 13 and 5’ 8" tall. I’ve tried many sports for her (basketball, volleyball, golf, etc), but she had no interest in them except finally she tried fencing and she loves it! I didn’t realize how expensive it can get as she gets more and more involved in fencing. She is in a club right now and she wants to compete. My question is: Is she too late to start fencing to get good enough for college opportunity in the future? I wished that I could have started her earlier had I known how much she would enjoy this sport. At the end of the day, she loves it right now, but just don’t know how much to invest in this as we go further since it is so expensive. My daughter has other talents in the arts and science that we can pursue for her too which makes it hard as a parent to help her find the path to get into a good college. Any advice from fencing parent would be so helpful!</p>

151

<p>With a good coach 13 is not too late.</p>

152

<p>@birdiekim: I don’t think it’s too late, but your daughter has to be prepared to work her butt off for the next few years if she’s thinking of being a strongly recruited fencer. Y14 is where youth fencing really gets serious
some Y14 girls can run with the juniors (U19) and even senior fencers. And many of them have been fencing for 4+ years at the age of 13.</p>

<p>Though note the Yale (I think) fencer (comeprima) above who only fenced for his/her high school team and was able to fence in college
at an Ivy, no less.</p>

<p>One thing I’ll note that due to your daughter’s relatively tall height, you may want to explore epee fencing
the weapon that arguably gives the most advantage to taller fencers. Additionally, there’s no right of way (a relatively complex rule that applies to foil/saber) to figure out — PLUS no lame (the metallicized vests/jackets used by foilists/saberists) to buy. You could probably be kitted out with one complete uniform, mask, 2 weapons & body cords for about $300. And if you go the court shoe route (instead of the insanely expensive fencing shoe route), that can add less than $60.</p>

<p>IMO, fencing doesn’t HAVE to be overly expensive. But between tournaments, travel, and FIE level gear, it certainly can be.</p>

153

<p>How’s this for an example of how good the top kids are:
Y12 WF standout Polly Adler is, as I write this, in the table of 16 at the Virginia Beach Div 1 NAC (in the company of a few Olympians and national team members).</p>

154

<p>It’s her day,her break through. If she is the first one great I remember when Nzinga broke through and then Lee and Margaret and Jackie 
and when my D finally broke through the others where like it’s about time
</p>

<p>it all happens and it depends on the time, poules and circumstance, but it’s done than it’s a grind towards the prize, so at y12 she has another six/seven years to maintain that level and that is the true test. </p>

<p>there was a female epeeist that was a ball room dance national champion before she came to fencing at 16 and she rose to the top and was a top student also, but she only had to be into it for two years-----and she also came to the sport as a champion so she understood the disciple needed.</p>

155

<p>FYI,</p>

<p>this comes from one of my friend who specializes in placing exception kids in exceptional academic environments. I’m posting this because I used to see it all the time and it’s so true. If your kid is a 10th or 11th grader and wants to be recruited to a college fencing team warn them if they lose a DE at a national competition not to then run around the venue screaming and crying about how much they hate fencing and want to quit right in front of all the college coaches who are there. Huge mistake which I saw happen at least five times this past weekend.</p>

<p>and congrats to you,UPenn & Andy will love having you there for the next four years.</p>

156

<p>As a father who’s son was recruited and is now well into college, I want to emphasize what schoolhouse said. Sitting with an Ivy coach, we talked at a NAC about recruitment. He told me he can teach any decent fencer to be better on the strip, but he can’t teach them to be a better person or sportsman.</p>

<p>He explained that the most important thing he looked for in a fencer was that they be someone he wanted to live with for the next four years. If they were miserable, whiny, unhappy or difficult, they could go elsewhere. And there is no better way to see what a fencer is made of than as he walks off the strip after a loss. </p>

<p>It’s okay to lose, but do so graciously if you hope to be recruited.</p>

157

<p>I realize this may fall into the category of “be careful what you wish for,” but my senior daughter has coaches contacting her regularly, saying they will make sure she gets in (“support” or “slot” or “likely” her), PROVIDED she will promise to go there.</p>

<p>She didn’t apply early anywhere because she hadn’t made up her mind. Aid is also an issue as we have other kids in college and grad school.</p>

<p>Is this typical? What happens if she says yes and changes her mind, or is gapped by financial aid?</p>

<p>She is an average to low average candidate for these highly selective schools without the boost from fencing. Is it foolish to take chances on getting in without athletic support, just to have choices?</p>

<p>All advice appreciated
</p>

158

<p>This weekend my D compete in the Midwest Collegiate Fencing Championships, in her pools was a fencer from another college who came to the strip as a right handed foilist with a left handed Belgian grip. Upon weapons check the referee(J. Offerlee - said she might have to forfeit the match sense she had the wrong blade grip/glove combo). The girl explained that this was all the equipment her school had, so instead of forfeiting my D who uses Belgian grips gave her a weapon to compete(which was ironic considering I had just had Swordmaster’s fixed five weapons at the Arnold Fencing Classic
</p>

<p>when my D told me, I was more proud of her that I was for her fencing
</p>

<p>new format for NCAA selections this year sucks</p>

159

<p>I love those fencing stories. Even when the results are disappointing (and I’m not implying that her results were) it’s a wonderful feeling watching your child do the right thing.</p>

160

<p>Here we go again, NCAA Fencing Championships are over and congratulations PSU. Now for the bad, the season is over and the team is going thru it’s annual purge, where the fencers who have grades, who don’t get lesson and who don’t travel and for the most part are invisible to the team get blamed for NCAA loss
Maybe it’s just one school in particular, but the same thing happened last year and two fencers left and now this year another fencer is being forced off the team
Now the irony is they didn’t fence in the NCAA Championship, they didn’t fence in the qualifier, they only fence clean up a time or two and then they didn’t fence their weapon, so why are they being blamed for the loss? Doesn’t the coach recruit the fencers of talent that are expected to carry the team? So why are the fencers that cheer the scapegoats. After this episode I have to wonder if it’s worth it? I thought I was suppose to just get good grades, help prepare the team, maybe get to travel and fence a time or two in a significant match, get better, get a lesson or two and etc
well I think I did my part, yet when the team who stepped on the strip fails it’s all on me
this is another sad day for collegiate fencing.</p>