<p>coreur reminds me of another point. How else are kids supposed to get information about colleges if not for the info sessions and visits to HS (and the much-maligned mailings)? I'd much rather have ds talk to a real person and get his questions asked than rely on the website, which is the most sanitized version possible of the school.</p>
<p>I'm quite thankful that many, many colleges and universities have come to ds's school. He has the opportunity to talk to people from schools we couldn't possibly afford to fly to.</p>
<p>Yorkyfan, maybe your daughter would be helped by a more proactive approach? For example, working to identify the schools that are a decent match for her, requesting their brochures, visiting their campuses, etc. Seeing what <em>is</em> possible?</p>
<p>Gaby3, I agree that, perhaps, they could save a few bucks and give some additional aid. That being said, we live in an area where most of the students will attend state schools -- they are more than affordable. All those OOS schools open up options that many students would never think about without those mailings.</p>
<p>BTW, my husband says that he misses going to the mailbox and having to battle the pamphlets to find the junk mail. I told him not to worry. It starts again in a few years when the youngest, who is 12, takes the PSAT and SAT.</p>
<p>Assuming the mailings don't make truly misleading statements, I think it's hard to say if the mailing campaigns are a net plus or minus for students--they do provide information that some students might not otherwise get, and encourage them to look at schools they may not have considered. But there probably are some students who are disappointed because they don't understand what level of interest the mailings represent.</p>
<p>Let's not forget that many GCs are absolutely clueless when it comes to OOS and private colleges. While glossy brochures may unduly raise expectations among some students, their GCs may unduly limit them.</p>
<p>I do not really buy the argument that these mailings are cruel or bad (assuming they are not deliberately misleading).</p>
<p>For a minute let's assume such mailings and HS visits did not exist. </p>
<p>Harvard's applications would look reasonably similar. But what would the applications to Swarthmore, Chicago, or Reed look like ... without outreach who knows about these schools ... the applicant pool would increasingly self-select to the upper middle class and up and the children of the highly educated. These outreach programs bring awareness to lots of applicants and their families who otherwise would be unaware of a school (or have minimal incomplete knowledge).</p>
<p>As someone who believes in wholelistic admissions I believe this outreach has another "pro" ... to find the unique applicant, URM applicant, or low-income applicant whose stats might be a tad lower than other applicants then a wide net needs to be cast. The schools are not clairvoyant ... they can not target these specific candiates and only mail them .... or at least I'd guess it is more cost effective to mass mail all the possible candidates to hope to find the unique applicants to fill the class demographics they seek.
How much knowledge of the applicant do you expect a school to have before they send marketing material? ... and how far down the possible acceptance stats is it OK to send material? For me, if one of the main goals is to try to find the most interesting incoming class possible the wider the net the better.</p>
<p>lunitari,
Thank you for the good advice. We have looked at several schools based on my D's interests and academic work with help from web site searching, guidance counselor suggestions and some CC parents!</p>
<p>But, right now my D's GPA is sinking faster than the Titanic and we keep having to change the "what is possible" targets. (Now we are talking local community college; we are not sure if she is even ready for a 4-year program.)</p>
<p>And I don't begrudge the colleges doing what is necessary to get their application and enrollment numbers. I just wanted to point out that these massive glossy mailings and slightly deceptive letters do cause some families pain because they cannot afford these schools or their kid can't get in.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Why do these places bother with expensive marketing firms? Just hire several thousand chinese or indian workers to fill out application forms to send into the university. Get those application numbers into the millions and those acceptance rates into small fractions.
[/quote]
If they cared so much about acceptance rates, they would do so! ;)</p>
<p>One of the first questions I have asked on this board was about a phone call from Harvard. I got bashed immediately as someone who does not understand the world she lives in. But think - how many parents/GC/students frequent CC? Is it 1% of graduating class? Probably much less than that.</p>
<p>The above mentioned phone call from Harvard came to a nice girl from a small private school. When parents got home , there was the message on the answering machine urging the girl to apply. Why? She was a solid student and has recently scored 800 on a verbal prtion of SAT. Parents were confused, school was bragging about it for a good few months. Had I not come to CC at that time I would have no idea either.</p>
<p>I personally think that the mailings from colleges that have an admit rate of less than 10% are cruel.</p>
<p>The college that my son wants to go to finally sent him a mailer even after we took it upon ourselves to visit the campus. Son was getting depressed that they must not want him, whereas, he gets at least a couple every day from colleges that he's never even contacted. He gets emails often from a highly selective school that I would love for him to go to, but I know he would probably be rejected. I almost got caught up in the fantasy that maybe he could get in, surely, they're showing so much interest in him. But thanks to CC, I know that's just a pipe dream. He doesn't want to go there, so I'm not even pushing him to apply.</p>
<p>My daughter quickly noticed that many of the emails/mailings looked identical. I have noticed that she takes more of an interest in mailings that have something unique to offer. Mostly she just laughs at the mail she gets, but she's saved some of them. She's still at least a year away from applying, so I'm not sure how much of an effect all the mail is having.</p>
<p>I admit I was a little choked up by reading GA2012Mom's post in saying how certain events transpired that encouraged her to aim higher for her successful, hard-working child. And I agree that the maze of terms for financial aid etc are a little overwhelming and are a roadblock to parents who don't take the time to get it. I watched a show a few weeks ago about how there were college students helping kids in intercity schools workign to help parents and their kids traverse the mind-field (so to speak). </p>
<p>This said, using Reed as an example in this OP link isn't really fair since Reed does not and has never participated in the USNews etc ranking questionairres. They just don't do it. And because of this, it is probably even more valuable to use their marketing just to get their name out there.</p>
<p>sooz- That is why I mixed feelings about it. My son did benefit from the campaign to get his application and may well attend that school. As I said, I think glossy brochures and view books are fine, what bothers me are the personalized letters. Harvard, in particular, doesn't need to do this-- BUT DOES! Harvard sent my son a three page letter extolling his academic prowess and the schools fabulouness. A little research indicates they sent a very similar letter to 75,000 other kids. My son is very unlikely to be accepted, but he applied because of that letter.</p>
<p>I am so grateful to see this thread. My 10th grade son has been coming everyday to a stack of letters (and some big glossy brochures) from these colleges....I assume as a result of his high PSAT scores this past Fall. At first I saved each and every mailout and encouraged him to look through them and see if he had any interest. After about day 14 of said mailouts, he began avoiding the "stack" and his expression took on a glazed look if I mentioned it. I am now tossing them in the trash everyday. What a waste of paper and postage. Tenth grade is too early to start this up.</p>
<p>My D too felt for these nice brochures with regards to some of the schools. </p>
<p>However, here is a strategy that goes beyong marketing: </p>
<p>My daughter received an e-mail yesterday from an Ivy school asking her why an exceptional student like her, perfect fit for the school, blah, blah... did not apply to their school, even after requesting brochures from them. My daughter never, ever requested anything from that school. On top of it, they asked her to fill out a 20 minutes survey as to why she did not apply, as if she ows them an explanation. That to me is VERY mean! Especially that she read it as if she was in, had she applied, and basically blowed her chance at an Ivy school.</p>
<p>MOWC, it is unfortunate that that family saw these mailing of materials about colleges as equating that the student was being recruited. Unfortunately, that is how some take such publicity. </p>
<p>As far as information sessions, adcoms visiting high schools, etc......I don't understand the criticism of this. The whole idea of these is to give students and families opportunities to explore the options that exist. The schools are bringing information to where information is needed. The consumer should not take it as these schools will accept them. </p>
<p>Most families are not like the ones on CC. The fact that all of us are on CC implies that we (either students or parents) ARE exploring college options and are learning about the process, etc. We are seeking information and know where to find it. But for many others, they have no clue what's out there (but only names of schools they have heard of), how to go about it, etc. So, the information comes to them....by mail, to regional events, and to high school guidance offices. Students and families NEED such information and should be exploring a wide variety of colleges and to know what's out there. Colleges spread the word as they are trying to reach all sorts of kids who may not be researching schools adequately online and so forth. </p>
<p>With my own kids, we did not pay attention to the mailings. D1 got a ton of them and D2 didn't as she never took the PSATs (where these lists often emanate for the mailings). The kids looked into colleges thoroughly and so the mailings didn't mean anything as they went about it in depth without needing mailings (as well as most mailings were not schools they would have considered). But so many kids have not nearly adequately explored college options. Thus mailings, information sessions and regional events may expose them to schools they ought to be exploring. </p>
<p>I also agree with the point that in some high schools, guidance counselors do not know much about certain types of colleges and have rarely had students apply to certain schools and thus a student cannot rely on hearing about these schools through their guidance counselor. My kids brought their own list of colleges they planned to apply to to their guidance counselor. We did not rely on the school suggesting colleges, or mailings. But many DO rely on that and do not adequately explore colleges beyond ones they have heard of. They are not like CC students and parents!</p>
<p>Here is an interesting twist.....you know how we all received tons of brochures from many colleges our kids had NO interest in attending? Well, we had trouble getting brochures from where they DID have interest in attending. </p>
<p>D2 was planning to apply to Penn State for their BFA in Musical Theater Program and there was very little information about it online at the time. We made tons of calls to the department in an effort to get a brochure. Took many tries, but we finally got one. </p>
<p>With D1, in junior year, we did college visits. We visited Brown and as part of our visit, we attended the information session on campus which we had signed up for in advance. Upon arriving at the information session and signing in, we noticed that many families who were waiting, had the school's viewbook in their hands and so we asked if we could have a copy as well and we were told, "we're only giving those to seniors" and since my D was a junior, no go! We had to ask another family if we could take a look at their brochure. I found this very odd because we were exploring colleges and doing visits in JUNIOR year like families SHOULD do. We had traveled to the school and we could not even get the brochure. I try not to let these sorts of things affect our view of a school as it is just an admissions office thing and not to do with what it would be like to attend the school. </p>
<p>Follow up....D2 got into PSU's MT Program but chose not to attend. D1 got into Brown, attended, graduated, loved it. </p>
<p>Anyway, here we are complaining about unwanted college brochures and we couldn't get brochures too easily from the schools my kids were applying to! :D</p>
<p>"The consumer should not take it as these schools will accept them. "</p>
<p>True that! More than one college displayed such arrogance during info sessions (letting us know in no uncertain terms that they have WAY more applicants than they needed to fill their class) that my daughter didn't bother applying. Looking back I realize that she would have been a strong candidate for more than a few of these schools, but their attitude was such a turnoff she lost interest early on.</p>