<p>givings - So true! And those during info sessions speak for the school, at least they are suppose to carry the mission and values of the school. I told my daughter to apply where she feels welcome and wanted.</p>
<p>"My daughter received an e-mail yesterday from an Ivy school asking her why an exceptional student like her, perfect fit for the school, blah, blah... did not apply to their school, even after requesting brochures from them. My daughter never, ever requested anything from that school. On top of it, they asked her to fill out a 20 minutes survey as to why she did not apply, as if she ows them an explanation. That to me is VERY mean! Especially that she read it as if she was in, had she applied, and basically blowed her chance at an Ivy school."</p>
<p>This is a perfect example of an enrollment management tactic dreamed up by an outside company hired by the college. I guarantee you that the admissions dept of this Ivy did not write this email.They don't have the time for this sort of ploy. I would call the actual admissions dept, and let them know how you feel about getting this email.</p>
<p>Agree with soozie - D signed up to be on WUStL's mailing list, and received zip from them. I always scratch my head over reports of WUStL flooding mailboxes</p>
<p>^^maybe the trick is to be not interested ? ;)</p>
<p>menloparkmom - I though of doing this after I realized how upset my daughter was, but I did not want to school to interprete it as me begging or something else. I don't know, it just felt inapropriate for me to contact them at the time. Maybe I will now.</p>
<p>"But there probably are some students who are disappointed because they don't understand what level of interest the mailings represent."</p>
<p>I guess I don't understand why anyone would look at receiving these mailings as being any different from getting on the mailing list for a Victoria's Secret or whatever catalog. Getting on a mailing list just means you got on a mailing list; it seems pretty self-evident that something triggered it (perhaps getting a score above X on a standardized test), and poof, you got on a mailing list, and that's it. I'm perplexed as to why these maillings are being seen as "personal invitations" or "recruiting" or why they are cruel. I don't see why they're taken any more personally than any other junk mail.</p>
<p>I think it's because some of these mailings are personalized, and some people may not understand that. The mailing includes a letter addressed to your child, and it seems to mention his or her personal achievements. Besides, people want to believe it, probably more than they want to believe that a space at the time-share is reserved for them.</p>
<p>^^^ Pizzagirl has it exactly right. But since buying a bra from Victoria's Secret will not "change your life" the way going to college will, it is understandable that many parents and students read way too much into receiving these mailings.</p>
<p>I don't think it is cruel if consumers are gullible. Like Pizzagirl wrote, I don't see the brochures from colleges any different than other mass mailings and marketing. And that is even if it comes with a cover letter. I get lots of mass marketing and the cover letters come across as "personalized." People should understand that it is marketing, plain and clear. If they don't, I don't see that as the colleges' fault.</p>
<p>I will add further, that the consumer should see it as "we want you to apply to our college" and not as "you will be accepted if you apply." To assume acceptance is simply naive.</p>
<p>Plus, to be on Victoria Secret or other mailing lists, YOU had to made the first move, meaning you bought something from them, and then, you receive junk mail. With college, you are being sollicitated.</p>
<p>That is not true about the Victoria's Secret catalogue. I get approximately 10 catalogues per day in the mail. I would say that 95% of them are companies I have not ordered from before.</p>
<p>Students who get on the mass mailing lists for colleges, often get there after having taken the PSATs, just like clothing catalogues pick and choose certain consumer lists.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Can you imagine the howls if they stood up at info sessions and said "We really don't need an application from you unless you truly are the cream of the cream. Only the very best need apply. If you don't measure up, or your high school is second-rate, don't bother. We don't want to hear from you.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>As if this is what anyone is suggesting. Please, how ridiculous. </p>
<p>If this were not about admission inflation but rather about trying to make a good match between a school and a student then the following information would be offered upfront; average gpa, SAT, etc. broken down even further by legacy and recruited athletes for the last few freshman classes, full tuition, what percentage pays that and how that breaks down into need-based v. merit. </p>
<p>For all the personalized letters, brochures, lookbooks and emails my S has recieved, nearly all the information needed for him to actually understand his chances of being admitted to any given school had to be found out on his own. The sparse info sometimes provided in the admissions section of the schools website is a start but it is only that. I had never heard of a Common Data Set until I came to CC. In otherwords, I couldn't tell my kid what to look for because I didn't know the name that that data is stored under. </p>
<p>I have no problem with schools sending one letter or one brochure or one email. They've let the student know they exist, how to research further and no harm done. It's the endless stream of info from the same selective schools I find to be below the belt. Especially since they are clearly written to entice students they know they will not admit. It's a scam and, yes, I expect better from colleges than I do from Disney or car companies or Victoria's Secret. Or perhaps I'm just not on the Victoria's Secret list where they send high gloss brochures and follow up emails telling me not to worry about the price because VS is dedicated to making sure everyone who will look good in their new bra can afford it.</p>
<p>We're not talking about push-up bras and the colleges that send out this info. know that. The stakes are high and they play into that. If nothing else, it's sleazy.</p>
<p>Not necessarily when it comes to Victoria's Secret or other mailing lists. Mailing lists are bought and sold all the time. </p>
<p>As for the personalization, that doesn't seem any different from other personalization I receive in catalogs and so far ("Dear XX, We see you haven't ordered from us in a while" or "Wouldn't the XX family love a new car?"). Heck, my grocery receipts know my name, so I'm still perplexed as to why someone would think that the personalization technology used by colleges is any different.</p>
<p>
[quote]
To assume acceptance is simply naive.
[/quote]
I agree with you, but I do think it's morally wrong to go too far to mislead the naive. Every year, naive people shell out good money for listings in "Distinguished American Preschool Students" and the like, because they believe that it's an honor--a belief encouraged by the advertising.</p>
<p>I guess the difference is that these "consumers" are kids. The pressure on these kids is enormous anyway....from teachers, administrators, parents and society. To dangle and therefore infer that Harvard would have an interest in my son is, in fact, cruel, as stated by the OP. Don't get me wrong....he is bright, polite and would be an asset to many schools. I have seen the stats that Harvard is expecting. And I wish they would not mail him letters that lead him to believe he would be a strong candidate for acceptance. </p>
<p>We went through this with my daughter. She was very excited about a couple of schools in particular that we are fairly confident wouldn't accept her (time will tell.....she will find out in a couple of weeks.) Even to call them "reach" schools is stretching it. But how to tell her not to apply after THEY initiated contact............</p>
<p>How is it a scam? If the school accepts 15% of applicants, yes, their marketing materials are gonna go to many kids who will not get in. But the marketing materials also reached kids who applied and did get in. First the students need to apply and some will get in and some won't. But the college is reaching out for applicants in certain categories that they WILL CONSIDER even if they can't take them all. They will get some students to apply who may not have applied otherwise and they will accept some of these students, simply not ALL.</p>
<p>I'm not sure why anyone thinks capitalizing on the naive is OK.</p>
<p>^^^ because not every recipient of the mailings IS naive. The mailings work as it has gotten some kids interested in colleges they have not considered and then they apply and SOME of them (NOT ALL) do get admitted. The colleges cannot help if SOME who receive these mailings believe it means they will be accepted if they apply. The fact is, their mailings work to attract students and some of these students DO get in. Some DO NOT because the college cannot accept every qualified student if it is a selective college.</p>