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So after receiving brochures, providing the school with ALL and more personal information, money, inner thoughts in essay forms - "Don't forget, we want to know about you" and concluding a stellar interview according to the interviewer, a student is not supposed to think that he IS in, especially if he/she meet all of the requirements in the brochure?
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<p>The idea here seems to be that if you've not made your child completely cynical about higher education by the time they are 16, you've failed as a parent. </p>
<p>"I guess I don't see any of that as misleading, or a statement that the school Really Personally Cares about young Timothy, or something that should raise Timothy's hopes of admission because he's so special-"</p>
<p>That's it!!! But see, what if my teenage son does think that they think he is special? </p>
<p>I am supposed to explain that this is simply a marketing effort on the school's part? To discount it? That they mail this to everyone so don't put any stock into it?</p>
<p>As far as the orgs in D.C. that mail the same marketing materials, you're right. We laugh at their attempts to let us know how very special our child us while attempting to hide the cost of the "opportunity" to attend their conference. It just saddens me that colleges go to some of the same extremes.</p>
<p>Shouldn't a seventeen-year-old kid be learning about these facts of the world before going off to college? My son learned them at an earlier age. Why not?</p>
<p>In two admissions cycles at our house, I've only seen one letter or brochure that told either of my daughters that she was sure to get in. UC Irvine wrote to D2 and said that because of her ELC status that if she would apply they would accept her. It was not a lie or an exaggeration. She did and they did.</p>
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<p>I am supposed to explain that this is simply a marketing effort on the school's part? To discount it? That they mail this to everyone so don't put any stock into it?<<</p>
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<p>Yes, that's pretty much exactly what you should explain. The way I said it to my daughter is that the school probably genuinely wants her to apply, but that won't stop them from turning right around and rejecting her later. I added that far more apply than they can possibly accept, so thousands of good, qualified kids get rejected. It's the reality of selective admissions. She seemed to understand and took it from there.</p>
<p>Something over a million students take the PSAT every year--if a school really wanted to run up the numbers, it could send mailings to a lot more than 122,795. Maybe some schools do. But I think most of them must have some score cutoff that is at least within the realm of possibility.</p>
<p>I think it can help sometimes to get mail, the free apps come that way, the info on open houses you might not have thought of attending, etc. I know many people that applied to schools only because of the mailing and free application and loved the college.
I also know minorites or geographical areas are targeted. A bright girl that my D went to school with got an 1800 on the SAT but great grades at school, went to a free program at Yale and last minute applied after they encouraged her, but she didn't put much hope in it. She got in and is doing very well, loves it, but never would have applied without some encouragement. Yale doesn't target very much but you do get on mailing lists after going to a class or program.
You can't help the students that are going to get their hopes up, there will always be people that can't read between the lines or don't want too, but I think most of the advertising is just that. I don't believe any store is doing me any favors selling me something, nor do I think the schools are.
I do know that for the tons of mail that is thrown out and bogus, there are legitimate mailings and some free applications and that in itself can be worth the extra trash.</p>
<p>if teens also believe that they will get better grades if they use this shampoo or they will get that boy to ask them out if they wear those jeans, then they have fulfilled their destiny- to be an American consumer!</p>
<p>But actually don't many classrooms at some point pick apart advertising and teach kids to read between the lines?
Its all just propaganda.</p>
<p>Something cut my attention, though. The deadline for Regular application is December 31 and the deadline for the transfer student's is March 1 in MOST colleges/universities. Transfer students are usually sophomores or juniors. On a school's public record, the entering class may show stellar stats, but what about the following class? There is schools out there that accept "certain" students through what is called the back door, that is without having to encompass their low stats with the one of the entering "stellar" class. It is OK by me, but it just show that these schools can do exactly what they want, and whatever they write do not carry much weight.</p>
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The buyer MUST beware. However, when information is not accessible other than via glossy brochures and planned campus visit, how can one beware.
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<p>Sorry, I do not agree at all. If a student is going to go to college, he/she needs to explore the schools deeply. The information is there to explore in many ways. First, every college has a website that is pretty extensive and on their site, they usually post some "fast facts" about admissions and acceptance rates, mid test score ranges of admitted students, class rank of admitted students and so on and so forth. Secondly, if one is looking to select colleges, they may purchase a college directory such as the Fiske Guide or the Princeton Review guide (or look at one in the guidance office or library) and these books have the stats on a ton of schools. Same with US News and World Report. I mean, do kids just pick colleges based on name, location, has my major? It is imperative to examine the selectivity of each school and to look up this information. It is all over the place, even on the College Board site. I can't fathom even looking into colleges without examining basic information on each college one is considering. That information is easy to come by. It is readily accessible. It is the applicant and his/her family who are responsible to find out all they can about the colleges that may interest them. </p>
<p>As far as an applicant having a foot in reality and not being gullible that a marketing brochure means they will be accepted.....my kids explored each of their schools deeply and knew how competitive they were and realistically understood that the odds of admission were slim even though they were qualified. They expected some rejections because they knew the acceptance rates, and not because they didn't have what it takes. </p>
<p>Likewise, if someone receives a brochure from Harvard....I do not see it as Harvard luring kids who have no chance. Many who receive the mailing do have a chance and are qualified. Harvard simply must reject countless qualified kids (the majority who apply....though not all....ARE qualified) due to the low admit rate. Anyone who is bright enough to even consider Harvard, should be bright enough to look up the acceptance rate and upon seeing that it is something like 9%, realize the low odds of admissions (basic math).</p>
<p>According to College Board, 25 percent of applicant were admitted Freshmen year. However, Vanderbilt received 533 applications from transfer student (sophomore); 298 were admitted. This is more than 50 percent acceptance rate for transfer students as oppose to 25 percent for new applicants. And this is only the one school I looked up.</p>
<p>Givings, let me offer a thought. When my son was about 8 or so, he received a letter from President Bush. It was some form letter response because he'd gotten good grades or sent a letter or something of that nature. Now, he treasured that letter, hung it on his wall, thought it was so incredibly cool that he had a real letter on White House stationery "signed" by the president. Now of course we all smiled and no one chose to disabuse him of his fantasy. I wouldn't do that to an 8 year old. How would you react if a 16 year old had that same reaction to that same letter? I would disabuse a 16 year old of the notion.</p>
<p>Why does every one refer to the acceptance rate written in the brochure of the school that send it in the first place? The brochure entice a student to apply to the school, increasing the number of applicants, therefore giving the IMPRESSION that the school is more selective, when in reality, a big percentage of students access the "selective" school as transfer students.</p>
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in reality, a big percentage of students access the "selective" school as transfer students.
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<p>Please give us even one example of such a college. Please show the relevant numbers of how many students come in as transfer students and how many come in as freshmen. Here's an example source for a college of which the quoted statement is NOT true: </p>
<p>Knowing acceptance rates is irrelevant. The point is not so much that a student or family does or does not know these stats as the fact that the wording of some mailings make them sound individually targeted. Therefore, the feeling that families not as well informed may get is that <em>their</em> personal chances just shot way up. It's not all college mailings that are a problem, it's just the ones that cross the line that I have issue with.</p>
<p>* number of transfer students at most colleges accept is minuscule.*</p>
<p>Agreed
At Reed for example-Hum 110, which is a full time + half class that virtually every freshman has taken since the beginning of time and is the building block for subsequent study.
Sure they have had transfers I suppose but when?
Freshman year you have Hum 110, sophmore year you are deciding on major, junior year you have your junior qualifying exam in order to show that you are prepared to senior year, write and defend your thesis in order to graduate.</p>
<p>and the transfer students who do get admitted at highly selective colleges that accept transfer students at all are very well prepared students. Transfer students don't drag down the quality of the class at the colleges that admit them--quite the contrary. </p>
<p>I'm still looking for even one really misleading example of language in a letter sent to a high school student who might apply to college for freshman admission. It's plain enough that a college that sends out such a letter would like the recipient to apply to the college. But does any student who is qualified to be admitted really get fooled into thinking such a letter is a promise of admission?</p>
<p>I was not talking about Harvard or Princeton. These schools do not need transfer students as they have their own selective protocol. </p>
<p>Earlier in the thread it was mentionned that those who believe the brochures to be a form of acceptance are gullible. My point is those who take everything at face value from these brochures are as gullible. I do not doubt that the actual stats are real, I am questioning the method used to manipulate these stats. That is all!</p>
<p>??? I don't see the "manipulation" you're referring to. As others have stated, the number of transfer students at highly selective colleges is small; the students themselves are highly qualified. The admission rate for transfer students is, by definition, not included in the first-time freshman admit rate recorded in each school's common data set. Are you saying that the schools post a falsified acceptance rate in promotional materials? I would have to see evidence that this is so before I give that idea credence.</p>