<p>Perhaps manipulate was the wrong terminology, create would have been better, and I was no longer talking about transfer students. I was talking about brochures used to entice students to apply to a school in order for the school to later be able to claim selectivity because so many students applied, and only so many were accepted.</p>
<p>Unless new dorms are being built, I imagine the acceptance rate for a specific school must be similar from years to years. The only numbers that could fluctuated (one way or the other) is the number of applicants/year. </p>
<p>My comment was in accord to #126, 128, 130, 132, 133.</p>
<p>I knew a student once who believed that she was sure to get into Harvard because they had called her for an interview. I didn't have the heart to tell her that they try to interview all who apply.</p>
<p>I find it ironic that some of the same posters who decry the lack of diversity at top schools, want legacy admisssions abolished, and measure schools by the number of "preppies" (or the lack of Pell grant awardees).... are many of the same posters who find it deceptive when these same colleges try to "get the word out" beyond Scarsdale, Winnetka, and Atherton.</p>
<p>When I did alumni interviews for my college, the only outstanding, one in a million kid I ever met was the one who took Greyhound and then two city buses to get to me. Rural upbringing, first in his family to aspire to college, let alone apply to college; his pastor lent him bus fare to get to the interview. So when I asked him, "how did you hear about Brown?" and he responded, "I got a letter in the mail with a brochure" (this was before the internet of course) I wanted to cry.</p>
<p>Why should this kid settle for community college? Why shouldn't he know that outside of his own 100 mile radius there are hundreds of colleges that would provide him with many opportunities- neither superior to, nor inferior to, what he could get at home... but different for sure.</p>
<p>He was the only kid I went to bat for. 20 years later I'm glad I did. He wasn't so naive as to think he was being accepted when he got an invitation to apply, but just grateful to have another option in the hopper when it came time to decide where to apply.</p>
<p>Accepted, graduated, married his "home town honey" and went to med school. I have no idea if he's back practicing community medicine, curing malaria in Africa, or doing face-lifts in Newport RI. Something for me to track down next time I need a project!!!</p>
<p>I got a couple more letters today. I'm still not seeing any examples of deceptive language. What specific language in letters are any of the rest of you seeing that is objectionable?</p>
<p>I am not going to mention the school but last year we had one that congratulated D on her fine record, said they had her scores ( made it personal) and that she was just the kind of student that they were looking for. It went on to say that she would be "eligible" for a $60,000 merit scholarship. I think that was close to the line.</p>
<p>See, I don't even think roshke's example is out of bounds. They did have her scores (at least roughly) -- because they paid for them. And based on that, she probably WAS eligible for the scholarship -- because it must have some kind of minimum CR+M requirement that she already met.</p>
<p>I really think it's up to parents to help keep kids' expectations realistic. My ds is interested in a school that offers a full ride to four kids, and one criteria is that you have a minimum CR+M that he has met. He's one of about 150 applicants to that college that met that standard this current year. He knows it's not guaranteed.</p>
<p>My grandfather, who family legend has it went to school only one day in his entire life, lived by the common-sense rule of "If it sounds too good to be true it probably is." I don't buy the charge that you must be highly educated or highly cynical to not buy a con job.</p>
<p>I think the trouble some have is that they hold these institutions in high esteem and think everything they do is altruistic, like there's no institutional benefit at all to these mailings. It's just not the case.</p>
<p>I agree with Youdon'tsay that the letter in the mailing that roshke describes is perfectly understandable. They are saying that she is the kind of student they look for which is true as they did not send the brochure to every high school kid, but rather selected kids based on their test scores and she meets that criteria, along with many others they mailed it to. She is their target audience whom they would like to attract to apply to their school. Then, they tell her she is eligible for a merit scholarship because well, she is...that doesn't mean she WILL get the merit scholarship as more people are eligible than they can give the offer to. What does eligible mean, after all? It means that she meets the stipulated requirements (min. scores or GPA) for this scholarship. It means she is qualified, suitable and fit to be chosen for merit aid. She would be in the pool of appiicants they will truly consider. It doesn't mean she will be accepted at all. I can't see ever reading it that way. </p>
<p>I agree with YouDon'tSay that parents need to explain the realistic odds of admissions at selective schools and so on, even IF the student meets the qualifications. One problem I run into frequently is that not only are some students unrealistic, but so are their parents. I knew my kids were qualified for every school on their list but they, and we, also knew the odds were gonna be very difficult ones given the very low admit rates to their chosen schools. My kids did not expect each of their schools to accept them. THey were certain "eligible" candidates for these schools. Being eligible is not the same as being admitted. More are eligible than can be admitted (if the school is selective at all).</p>
<p>I'm also glad that blossom shared her story of the candidate whom she interviewed who would not have known about Brown had he not received the brochure. I live in a rural area. One third of the students at our high school do not attend college. Only a very small percentage apply to significantly selective colleges. It is not the "norm." We certainly did not rely on our GC to suggest schools for our kids, even though we adore our GC. We researched schools on our own. One of my kids even had a specialized admissions process that no typical guidance counselor would know much about. My other kid was applying to some of the most selective schools in the land. Her GC thought she'd be a shoo-in but we knew better as we knew the realistic odds. So, we did our own research. But there are many very very bright kids at a school like ours where the kids may not be exposed to some really great colleges out there had they not gotten some mailings or had someone helping them who knew a thing or two about colleges out of state.</p>
<p>Maybe all of those individualized letters should have a disclaimer at the bottom: "Please be aware that we only accepted 6 out of every 100 applicants last year."</p>
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I agree with Youdon'tsay that the letter in the mailing that roshke describes is perfectly understandable. They are saying that she is the kind of student they look for which is true as they did not send the brochure to every high school kid, but rather selected kids based on their test scores and she meets that criteria, along with many others they mailed it to. She is their target audience whom they would like to attract to apply to their school. Then, they tell her she is eligible for a merit scholarship because well, she is...that doesn't mean she WILL get the merit scholarship as more people are eligible than they can give the offer to. What does eligible mean, after all? It means that she meets the stipulated requirements (min. scores or GPA) for this scholarship. It means she is qualified, suitable and fit to be chosen for merit aid. She would be in the pool of appiicants they will truly consider. It doesn't mean she will be accepted at all.
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<p>So is it too much to expect that an elite college's marketing department use more honorable tactics than Publishers Clearing House?</p>
<p>We had Kings College in PA call on the phone and offer son some ridiculous scholarship over 4 years. They also said that by accepting their scholarship, he need not complete an application! At the time I thought, how annoying. But now I wonder how many hapless individuals are thinking they were getting huge discounted tuition from Kings College! Now maybe they do have great merit aid, but I have never heard of a school you've shown no interest in tracking you down to offer you money.</p>
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<p>...but I have never heard of a school you've shown no interest in tracking you down to offer you money. <<</p>
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<p>I haven't heard of it coming in the form of a phone call before, but when D1 was NMF the Univ. of Houston sent her a letter promising her a full ride. They kept repeatedly shouting in the flyer that "Your education will be ABSOLUTELY FREE!!"</p>
<p>She had never shown any interest in that school. My presumption was that they sent this to all the National Merit kids.</p>
<p>The letters that cracked me up were the ones signed by "Joe Schmoe, VP for Enrollment Management." Yup. Hit the nail on the head. Send us your $50 so we can reject you and make ourselves look more selective!</p>
<p>Most of the colleges sending out these letters accept well over half of all their applicants, and would jump at the chance to admit any National Merit semifinalist.</p>
<p>re# post 172- LOL!
I agree with ellemenope- there should be a disclaimer in any letter sent from colleges. That would clarify the odds of acceptance and prevent misguided hopes by gullible students and parents.</p>
<p>We love mailings in our house, the glossier the better! We didn't have a real frame of reference with D1, so most colleges she received mail from were new to us. There was one college that we'd never heard of whose brochure called something to her attention. we visited the college and she was in touch with it fairly often. Was admitted with some nice money. It ended up being the number 2 choice, much to her regret now, but we went to visit and had a fabulous time and a benchmark was set for us. D2 gets tons of mail and generally does scope it out to see if it has the classics or medieval studies major. If so, it gets a bit more scrutiny. She also got a call from a student at a small, unfamiliar LAC that was noteworthy because she and the girl were similarly weird. We've decided to tack that school on to a visit and see. Just this past week she got a brochure from the honors program at a school that she was halfheartedly considering. The amenities were so interesting to her that she now wants to visit there as well. She harbors no delusions about where she'll be accepted, but she does like different schools to come to her attention.</p>