College Options for a Student in a Unique Situation

Paying for College
1

<p>I'm a high school junior now, so the college deal is just starting for me. Today I told my mom I might want to start visiting some colleges soon, and her answer was one that I didn't appreciate. She basically said there was no need to go around the country visiting colleges since I should just go to school here in Ohio. She said we couldn't afford to do that anyway.</p>

<p>Now, some of you will be thinking, "Oh...this is one of those kids that will get to go to college for free because of their family financial situation." Not really. My family makes about $70,000/year, and my dad not only owns a business but also has a separate full time job. The house is nearly paid for as well. So that's a lot of assets that will go into a CSS/Profile finaid application. So I don't think I can expect much if any aid.</p>

<p>One of my top choices is Brown University. Yes, it meets 100% of need, but it's looking like I really don't have that much need. I can most likely expect my parents to pay for at least a little of my education costs, even if it's just personal expenses. I think their thinking is that if I can't get a full ride somewhere, then I don't need to go. My mom actually mentioned a community college so I can live at home. I'll make one thing clear: I really do NOT want to live at home. For the record, the other reach I'm considering is Amherst College.</p>

<p>Which brings me to my next problem. For my parents, college is where you get an education, not have an experience. "So...you want to go into business, but this college has no business major? DUH!" Today I asked my boss about this, so I could get the perspective from someone not financially involved. I had said that I might want to get either a CPA or MBA. She told me about someone she knew that got her CPA in two years, rather than spending 4 years of tuition, room and board, and all that other expensive stuff. Finally, she said that where her sister works (a medical company), they don't give any consideration to school prestige. Is this the way it really works at most places? I don't necessarily want to work for a Big 4 company or anything like that.</p>

<p>Now we come to me. I personally do not want more than $40,000 in debt when I graduate. That's plenty to try to pay off when I'm starting my life as an adult. So if Amherst and Brown don't keep my cost to $10,000/year or less, I really won't be able to go. I believe that I have a good chance at both, as I offer geographic diversity from usual Ivy an lower Ivy students (rural student, uncompetitive high school).</p>

<p>I guess part of my question is if a "good" education is worth the trouble. I was under the impression that good schools try to accommodate unique students as best as they can, but am I wrong about this? I've used those finaid calculators, and they say my EFC is about $5000 but that's a very rough estimate since I don't think they take assets into account like the CSS/Profile apps do. I look for my real EFC to be much higher than that. My definite safeties will be OSU and Ohio Wesleyan (OWU has offered me merit money, and it's easy to get merit money at OSU). Should I just go for these safeties and forget Ivies, since they're financially out of my reach? I'm extremely tight with my money, and I want to make sure that none of it goes to waste.</p>

<p>If anyone could decipher that monster of a post, any help would be more than appreciated.</p>

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<p>Visit the Parents Forum, Key word search for your desires, ie visits.</p>

<p>You will find that some parents and students visit, and some don't. We personally did not; You pick the school, and the school picks you. Virtual tour was good enough and even then it was the location and academics rather than what the school looked like that made the difference. </p>

<p>If you want to go into business, do not go business school, there is no substitute for personally running a business.</p>

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<p>Going to a top rated school (since one can get a "good" education at all levels of colleges, I am not responding to that) is not worth IMO $40 k in debt. </p>

<p>Ohio also has some of the top colleges in the country. If you stay in state, you have many options of getting an excellent education.</p>

<p>I went to Harvard. Husband went to a second tier LAC. S, 19, is at a second tier LAC. From what I can tell, H got and S is getting better education than I did at Harvard because both my husband and S were taught by faculty whose main interest was teaching, not research. I am floored by the personal interest that faculty took in my husband during his college education. I am floored by the creative teaching that S is getting in his education. I had some of that at Harvard, but it was rare, not routine. I had the opportunity to hear a lot of great lectures. S is having lots of opportunities for fascinating class discussions under the tuteledge of a prof, not TAs, and he has several classes that combine instruction and theory with service learning or other hands-on experiences.</p>

<p>What Harvard had over my husband and S's experiences was a very large, exceptionally smart group of students who were self motivated to be deeply involved in all sorts of activities ranging from clubs to community activities to academic research. I don't think, however, that would be worth going $40 k in debt to experience.</p>

<p>If you are smart enough to be considering colleges like Amherst, then you are smart enough to be able to get very nice merit aid from some good Ohio colleges, and to also figure out ways of reducing your college expenses by earning some money through summer and/or school year jobs.</p>

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<p>$70K a year is not a lavish income for a family of four. Even if the house is paid for. However, you won't know exactly how much debt will be involved until you've practically been through the entire admissions process. It doesn't sound like you'll have much cooperation from your parents, so be prepared to shoulder a lot of the information gathering responsibility yourself. It's been done before.</p>

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<p>To the OP.....you are NOT in a "unique situation". Many others, MANY are in the same situation as you. They need to make their college choices with the family finances in mind. I would urge you to have a serious discussion with your family about what they will and can contribute yearly to your college expenses. That will help you chart your college choice map a little better.</p>

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<p>You received very good advice above, and I agree with it. I just wanted to respond to this:</p>

<p>
[quote]
Finally, she said that where her sister works (a medical company), they don't give any consideration to school prestige.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Many doors do open bc of the name and connections through a school. Prestige matters, but it does not matter everywhere. My brother in law is a SUNY graduate. He worked as a cashier for 6 months after he graduated as a business major. He was offered a job 30 years ago for 35k to sell medical equipment. He set up a table at conference in NY (Javits Center). My BIL is a worker, and someone from another company noticed his working ability. At the end of the day, that person approached my BIL and said that whatever the company was paying him, he would pay more. My BIL went to work for that man and has stayed and grown with him over the last 29 years, and is he very successful and happy. He works hard to be where he is (basically married to this company, and could do that bc for many years he was not married and does not have children. Work was his life for many years). He has been in a position that graduates from top schools hope to get, but my BIL got the job through hard work, and being at the right place at the right time. BTW, my BIL only has a BS degree. He did not continue to go to graduate school, and he earns just as much as many doctors, and lawyers.</p>

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<p>Your parents will probably be pleased and proud if you are awarded a scholarship that covers most of your expenses. Visiting in advance is not absolutely essential-Brown will give you an alumni interview instead of one on-campus.</p>

<p>In addition to Brown and Amherst, you will need some safety schools that would likely give you merit aid. Consider Tufts and Brandeis as slightly less difficult to get into or possibly Johns Hopkins and Emory--these could be match rather than reach schools. Closer to home there are Grinnell, Kenyon, Carelton, Oberlin. Beloit and Earlham as possible safties? All these would offer you the Liberal Arts experience and perhaps one or two would offer merit aid?</p>

<p>No harm in trying. You could save the visiting until you know where you have been accepted and then are making a final choice also based on financial aid offers.</p>

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<p>If you want to be considered for merit aid, just be sure the school awards it. I don't think Tufts gives merit aid, for example.</p>

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<p>"To the OP.....you are NOT in a "unique situation". Many others, MANY are in the same situation as you. "</p>

<p>I agree. In fact, I think that MOST students are in your situation.
I live in in a middle/upper middle class community where many of S's friends are college profs, and virtiually all of S's friends' parents told their students that they had to go to college in state -- public colleges at that.</p>

<p>The same was true when I was growing up in a very higihly educated community in another part of the country. 88% of my h.s. class went to college, the majority of whom went in-state. As was the case with my S's high school, even National Merit scholars had to go in state because that's where their parents allowed them to go.</p>

<p>Their parents told them that if they want to go out of state, they can do so for graduate school or professional school, but why go into debt or spend tens of thousands for undergrad when what really counts is grad school or professional school?</p>

<p>In my current state, I've noticed that the graduates of our flagship university and other large in state publics are who gets hired in my city and probably elsewhere in the state. This is true for summer as well as excellent permanent jobs.</p>

<p>One of S's friends goes to NYU (which is not in my current state) and couldn't get a summer job here because employers want to support students who went to their own alma maters (state U) or other in state universities.</p>

<p>Anyway, if you want to go out of state, apply only to places offering merit aid that you have a good chance of getting. Be prepared to take out loans, too and to work summers and during the school year to support your dream.</p>

<p>Brown doesn't give merit aid, and based on what you've said about your parents' income (which is not lavish, incidentally, but if your parents refuse to pay for an out of state school, no need to bother applying to places where you aren't going to get lots of aid), it's unlikely you'd get enough need-based aid from there to make it worthwhile for you to take out loans, etc. to fill the gap.</p>

<p>Amherst also gives no merit aid.</p>

<p>Frankly, I think that both should be scratched off your list. Instead, you could substitute colleges that do offer merit aid: Brandeis, Boston U and Boston College come to mind. Just realize that even very strong students have difficulty getting the top merit aid colleges offer.</p>

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<p>I would like to suggest that if you are looking for a good eduction, out of state, away from home esperience, do not focus on prestige places, rather look to the "lowly" private FAFSA only schools who may offer merit aid. i do not know the ones in your area but read the threads in the financial aid forum which are "stuck" to the top. In the west schools like Baylor & Whitworth will not look at your parents home equity in financial aid and will also offer you $10-12k annually against a $30-35k COA, making them just as reasonable as most publics.</p>

<p>With high home equity we had some profile schools wants $20k more than FAFSA schools, but we still have not bought and paid off a pricey home, we bought 25 years ago and have moved, but always a lateral move in terms of price, so we could not afford to tap the equity and still stay in the house.</p>

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<p>You might as well apply, see what aid you'll get. If you can get around 30-35k per year in aid (which I think you are well qualified for), you may only end up paying 10-15k which is around what you'd be paying for instate publics. Even if you end up having to pay 20k, which I see as the absolute maximum you could ever have to pay, I think your parents would at least pay 10k of that and you could work off another 10k. Obviously include safeties bound to give you nice merit, but don't scratch them off your list yet. Good luck!</p>

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<p>Thanks for the fantastic advice so far!</p>

<p>It's not really that my parents won't pay for an out of state school. I can expect at least a little contribution from them toward my education, since they've made numerous references about paying for my college. However, as you can probably tell, they don't have a whole lot of money floating around, so the amount I can reasonably expect isn't great.</p>

<p>The part where my parents show the biggest resistance is having me so far from home. They, for some reason, expect me to be home every other weekend like all the other college students here. But I want college to be a time to get away from home and see the world. Not a time to mooch off Mom and Dad.</p>

<p>About merit aid: Sure, I'd love some, but it's really, really difficult to get. It all depends on your ACT/SAT scores, and I'm not projecting mine to be high enough to get merit aid anywhere but OSU and tier 3 and 4 liberal arts colleges.</p>

<p>Additionally, I'm not sold on staying in Ohio my whole life. Would OSU have the same kind of employment power nationally that a school like Brown would have?</p>

<p>Just for future reference, Carleton, Grinnell, and Beloit are just as far away as Brown and Amherst. Ohio isn't as far from the East Coast as you might think.</p>

<p>I guess that I'm kind of getting a distorted view of college from CC. On the other forums on this site, everyone's all gung-ho for Ivies and other Top 25 schools. Then I come on this forum, and everyone is saying they aren't worth it. So which is it?</p>

<p>There's one more thing I want in a college. All of my life I've been surrounded by...well...country bumpkins. Education really doesn't hold much value, other than people make fun of degree holders when they mess up, saying something to the effect of "Mom and Dad's money didn't buy much for his education!" The two overwhelmingly most common professions for students to enter after high school are nursing and elementary or high school education. When a teaching position opens, it's commonplace to have 120 applicants for one job, since everyone wants to teach where they grew up. Everyone goes to the same 5 colleges (some are out of state privates) and they're all carbon copies of each other. I want to get away from this. When I went to a scholastic event last spring, I was so at-home with other students of vastly different backgrounds that still had the capacity to think for themselves. That's what I want to see more of.</p>

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<p>I think you should just apply to a number of places and see what they come back at you with. Can't hurt anything. </p>

<p>Given what you've explained about your family finances, though, I don't think you'll get as much from places like Brown or Amherst as you think. My family's income is lower and our home equity is less (I'm assuming) and we'll have 2 in college at once, and the IM calculators set our EFC for just one of our kids in private college (the other will e public) as higher than what you seem to be expecting. On the College Board site there is a calculator that will give Federal Methodology estimates (schools that take FAFSA only) and also Institutional Methodology estimates (CSS Profile colleges). The latter are more questionable because different schools can do things their own way, but it might give you a ballpark figure.</p>

<p>I don't think going to any particular school is worth $40K. I mean, if you've got it, sure, but if you're from a family with limited means and it would all be debt... not worth it. Go somewhere affordable and save the big debt for graduate school.</p>

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<p>If you can afford to apply (and don't have a limit on # of schools), I'd say go ahead, cast a wide net and see what happens. Brown & Amherst have open curriculums so if that appeals to you, go for it. We know kids at Brown with similar financial situations and they received good packages - but don't count on it. Brown offers a scholarship to freshman to replace their workstudy. Brown also allows you to use outside scholarships to replace student (Stafford) loans or student contributions from summer earnings - so apply for scholarships.</p>

<p>Make sure you have financial safeties on your list - ones you actually would want to attend. This whole process is very subjective and we had surprises along the way.</p>

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<p>Oh for heaven's sake. Ohio State University is a very well known, highly regarded, Big Ten school. And related...You say you don't think your SAT/ACT scores will be high enough for merit consideration? Will they be high enough for acceptance to the top ranking (that don't give merit aid) schools currently on your list?</p>

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<p>The students who get merit aid from excellent colleges are the ones who also would get admission to top colleges, places like Brown that don't give merit aid. The excellent colleges would offer merit aid to lure students away from top colleges like Brown and Amherst that don't offer it. </p>

<p>If your scores aren't high enough for you to get merit aid from excellent colleges, they probably aren't high enough for you to get into colleges like Brown and Amherst.</p>

<p>">>Would OSU have the same kind of employment power nationally that a school like Brown would have?>>
Probably. It's well known and has a huge alum network.
Also, aren't you planning to go to grad or professional school as do many college students now? If so, your graduate/professional school will count the most when it comes to jobs.</p>

<p>And what are you doing to earn some of the $ to make your dreams come true? Summer jobs? School year jobs? Doing careful applications to any scholarships you might qualify for?</p>

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<p>I suppose I should clarify the test scores thing. I think I'll end up with scores around 700-720 per section for SAT, and a 32 ACT. That's enough to get merit aid at many colleges, but I'm not sure that I could count on it. Those scores could also get me into a top college, especially since I have the diversity hook and a nice healthy list of ECs. I can count on a few outstanding recommendations, too, since my teachers at school know me very well. </p>

<p>My financial safeties so far include OSU and OWU, though I would be counting on more aid than what I currently have for OWU to be an option. I think I would enjoy OWU because I like the whole liberal arts thing. I just need to be careful to not apply to colleges with homogeneous student bodies, since that's really what I'm trying to get away from.</p>

<p>I will definitely be working summers, and I'll most likely be working during the school year too. I do this in high school, and I'm pleased with the results.</p>

<p>I'll probably be going for an MBA.</p>

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<p>Give some consideration to Brandeis as a merit aid school.They have a good reputation in preparing students for MBA as well as a strong liberal arts curriculum. The student body is about 60% Jewish, mostly urban and suburban from the Northeast, so that will give you diversity in comparison to what you're used to, plus Boston is nearby and within easy access, so you'll have a chance to get to know a culturally diverse and entertaining city.</p>

<p>BTW, if you do an MBA the reputation of your graduate school would be more decisive than the prestige of your undergrad institution.</p>

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<p>Be a National Merit Finalist. That will open up your prospects so much in the way of merit aid. As a semifinalist I've been getting so much mail saying free tuition basically. So........yeah.</p>

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<p>^I'm really trying hard for that, since OSU gives a full tuition plus half room and board scholarship for National Merit Finalists.</p>

<p>I think I've decided that Brown and Amherst really aren't worth it for undergrad. I'd rather save the money for grad school and the life thereafter. I like liberal arts colleges, but who do I think I'm fooling? It's just too expensive. I'll apply to the ones that give me merit aid in addition to financial aid. I'll most likely get some financial aid, but not enough to cover $50k/year.</p>