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<p>it’s not like that, no one wants to go through life fearing getting raped or mugged or killed. jokes are to ease the fear and whatnot, if you know what i mean.</p>
<p>“And after my roommate found out about me we went to a mandatory seminar about sexual assault on college campuses and she laughed through the whole thing, so not even women are necessarily better.”</p>
<p>I think that some people handle their own fear and discomfort by laughing. She didn’t necessarily think that the info was funny. She even may be a sexual abuse survivor herself, who’s using denial and laughter to deal with her own trauma.</p>
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…Rubbing on a guy’s crotch is sexual. How is that hard to understand? It’s just like sitting next to him, rubbing his crotch. It is intentionally triggering his sexual hormones, aka playing with fire. No one is saying guys shouldn’t be able to exercise restraint. No one is saying guys have no choice.</p>
<p>If you have no sexual intentions, stay off his crotch, reject his advances. If you get drunk and lose the ability to comprehend that you’re making sexual invites, and if you lose the control over your own body to express your disinterest and stop what has been started, then who is to blame?</p>
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No, but ruling out what didn’t technically happen can help understand what did happen, and that will significantly help recovery. It might feel the same in two rape scenarios, because both people did not want what was happening to them. But it is significantly different in the case that one expressed his/her disinterest and the offender continued vs the case where one was silent or even pretended to enjoy it and the “offender” continued.</p>
<p>You have to understand that people sometimes freeze up under duress. The whole ‘deer in headlights’ thing. They might not resist because they fear further retribution, or because their minds are just not sending the “run” signal to their bodies.</p>
<p>@gotakun – I’m sorry that you get blue balls. That sucks for you. But it’s not the girl’s fault for turning you on.
I said it earlier and I’ll say it again: dancing means I want to dance. It does not much that I want to have sex. I am not playing with fire, I am dance. It’s not a tricky situation to read – nothing more is going on than what is happening. I’m not sending secret messages, I am simply DANCING. As someone said earlier, a dance (or a kiss) is not a contract. </p>
<p>Here is a helpful video: <a href=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iSlPoQm2XY[/url]”>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iSlPoQm2XY</a> </p>
<p>Also, if I am too drunk to say no, then it is the guy’s responsibility to understand that I am not in a position to accept or decline his advances. That is why, as other people have posted earlier, it is considered rape in many states (and on many college campuses, such as my own) to have sex with a legally drunk person. If your argument were valid, then it would not be considered rape to violate an unconscious girl. I doubt you negate that raping an unconscious victim is absolutely rape even though you don’t hear a no. If you do not agree that that would be unacceptable, then I believe you have some serious issues with boundary pushing and I suggest you discuss them with a trained professional.</p>
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<p>the guy is to blame for taking advantage of that weakness</p>
<p>".Rubbing on a guy’s crotch is sexual. How is that hard to understand? It’s just like sitting next to him, rubbing his crotch. It is intentionally triggering his sexual hormones, aka playing with fire. No one is saying guys shouldn’t be able to exercise restraint. No one is saying guys have no choice.</p>
<p>If you have no sexual intentions, stay off his crotch, reject his advances. If you get drunk and lose the ability to comprehend that you’re making sexual invites, and if you lose the control over your own body to express your disinterest and stop what has been started, then who is to blame?"</p>
<p>The man. He’s not an animal who lacks control over his impulses.</p>
<p>If one is hungry and passes by a restaurant from which savory food odors are emanating, one can’t just go in and grab food off someone’s plate. </p>
<p>If you’re cold and someone loans you their coat to wear for a short time, you can’t keep it when they want it back.</p>
<p>If you’re thirsty while watching a ball game and have to pass a soda that someone else in your row has purchased, you can’t decide to drink out of it.</p>
<p>I don’t think you can deny that grinding is a very sexual form of dancing (a girl’s butt rubbing against a male’s genitals? How is that not sexual?), but a male should be able to contain himself. I will say that dancing like that does draw unwanted attention and I’ve known a couple of girls who have been labeled as hoes for dancing like that, although those girls were virgins. Still, it doesn’t warrant rape, but if you don’t want the label, maybe you should find a new way to dance.</p>
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<p>That wasn’t the issue. No one is asking whether it’s morally sound for a woman to flaunt her sexuality. It’s a question of whether it becomes her fault when a man is attracted to her and won’t leave her alone.</p>
<p>But seriously, dancing => ho? I’m hoping you’re still in high school, because out there in the real world, dancing is pretty innocuous.</p>
<p>^^^Well sorry, I came into the conversation late. I think I answered your question in my response anyway, though.</p>
<p>And who said I labeled them as hoes? That was a label placed upon them by other people in the “real world” which is several years outside of high school. Perhaps you’ve generalized everyone who lies inside of this real world. There were certain circumstances which did lead to that label, since those girls didn’t engage in the mundane grinding which you’re probably thinking of and did go “the extra mile”, so to speak.</p>
<p>I didn’t say you labeled them – I’m just commenting that it seems that there is a pretty ridiculous standard to which women are held in your community or high school. 14-year-old virgins dancing provocatively is certainly disheartening (don’t think whorish would be the right word though). But I should hope that virgin WOMEN are not judged to be “hoes” by a little dancing.
Our society can be very sad sometime. I hope someday that people will live and let live and allow women with differing morals to do what THEY feel is right. I believe that it is simply wrong for one human to claim some moral authority over another.
But that, I suppose, is beside the point.</p>
<p>I agree, but people’s opinions vary widely, so what I may deem to be morally justifiable may seem to be a morally reprehensible act when viewed under the perspective of another. Sure, one shouldn’t necessarily be judged from certain actions, but it does happen. Again, those girls that were labeled went the extra mile, so I wasn’t saying that every girl that I know was hit with the same label.</p>
<p>I also strongly agree with your point that it’s dumb to think that a male shouldn’t be able to control himself when provoked.</p>
<p>Sadly, as long as cultural hegemony exists in the world, what you hope to happen probably won’t. We can still hope though, right?</p>
<p>A 1974 study by Hariton and Singer found that being “overpowered or forced to surrender” was the second most frequent sexual fantasy in their survey</p>
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Dancing is one thing, grinding is another. There is a significant distinction between having fun with someone and rubbing them sexually. It’s not a contract, it’s an invitation. Don’t put words in my mouth, please. Thanks.</p>
<p>If you are unconscious, then you can’t be sexually inviting. Without sexual invitation, it obviously cannot even be mistakenly perceived as consensual. It’s a valid point, but it’s unrelated to my argument.</p>
<p>You aren’t sending secret signals; you’re sending very overt signals. You’re teasing, aka playing with fire.
It’s not a weakness. It’s a poor judgment call on behalf of the “victim.”</p>
<p>@Northstarmom
Sorry, but every one of your statements was completely unlike my argument. If you think those, in any way, are analogous to my argument, you have misunderstood me.</p>
<p>I hope no one takes personal offense to my statements. I’m not defending the morality of people who would take advantage of others.</p>
<p>"If one is hungry and passes by a restaurant from which savory food odors are emanating, one can’t just go in and grab food off someone’s plate. "</p>
<p>You have no idea how tempted I’ve been to just grab a french fry off someone’s plate when they’re sitting at a table outside.</p>
<p>@Gotakun it isn’t an invitation pal. And even if it is, you don’t just start having sex with them right then and there. One thing leads to another, you end up in a bedroom and ask if she wants to. I know I know, asking if a girl wants to have sex is for fags.</p>
<p>Some of you who are sharp enough will understand this. You will realize that rapists are really not wrong in their doing, from a human standpoint. What makes them bad is how they make the world “feel” unsafer. If women had to leave their homes (or even stay in their homes) and be constantly worried about getting raped, it wouldn’t paint a happy picture. </p>
<p>They are not bad/evil/dumb/whatever kind of insult you can throw at them. We are all the same really.</p>
<p>this is why I hate sociology and philosophy majors</p>
<p>^^What kind of rationalization is that?! “We are all the same really” – yeah, okay, we’re all human. So I should love brutal murderers and rapists and people who have wreaked destruction and hatred across the human race? No. I am the daughter of a public defender and am VERY sympathetic towards even convicted criminals in many situations. I do understand that there are certain situations that lead people to do despicable acts. However, while I feel empathy for those people, I would NEVER go so far as to say that they are “really not wrong in their doing, from a human standpoint.” There is NO JUSTIFICATION FOR RAPE. Again, it is valid to feel sorry for people who are so psychologically troubled that they would force sex on a victim, but you are the only person I have ever heard go so far as to say that it is not wrong. </p>
<p>Please explain to me how you think it is not wrong to have sex with a woman against her will. To most of us, the act itself is deplorable, as are the consequences.</p>
<p>Also, many women DO leave their homes constantly worried about getting raped. You are clearly not a woman, and I simply think that this is something that many young men will never understand. It can be extremely frightening to be a woman. I am saying this as a strong, confident feminist who mostly feels very empowered. Despite this, I lack the physical strength that many men have. Simply put, being raped is a legitimate fear for many women. To say that the act itself is not really an issue but the effect is a problem is demeaning to the fears and real life experiences of millions of women.</p>
<p>PS – If you would like to get philosophical about it, the issue of rape is that it is an act that takes from someone their will. It negates the power of the victim’s choices. I would posit that being able to choose is the essence of being – if this is a confusing concept to you, please read Kant, Kierkegaard, or Sartre. Thus, rape is dehumanizing someone. By stripping someone of their freedom of choice, you are literally turning them into an object. Furthermore, the psychological consequences of losing this freedom are such that freedom to choose attitude (the ultimate freedom, as Victor Frankl argues in Man’s Search For Meaning) also is nullified. Therefore, rape removes every human freedom, reducing the victim to sub-human. Is that not wrong?</p>
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<p>well the man is still at fault for taking advantage of the woman’s poor judgement.</p>
<p>I am literally sickened by reading some of these comments. Some of you though are helping me not completely give up on humanity. Thank you for that. My best friend was raped two years ago when she was 17. She did not deserve it. Her life has been destroyed. She no longer can go outside by herself in the dark, she has a nightlight in her room. She doesn’t trust any men in her life (with exception to her dad). She is missing out of living in a college dorm experience because she’s terrified to be somewhere that she doesn’t feel safe. She still has nightmares. </p>
<p>Tell me how a 17 year old girl deserved this. Some of you people on here are unbelievable.</p>