<p>^^^ I wouldn’t go that far. Alcohol can make women sexually aroused and want to engage in that type of activity and some may even partake in sexual activities with people that they normally wouldn’t. In combination with the loss of inhibitions, a woman may find herself doing things she’d never do normally. I’m not talking about falling out drunk or anything like that, since that would be taking advantage. Also, we’d have to know if the female in question is a seasoned vet or just a dilettante in the drinking game, since one drink for a vet may have the psychological effects of 5 on a lightweight (meaning that they’d lose more control of themselves, not that they’d just start passing out.) </p>
<p>Either way, let’s just all make it an effort to not have sex with drunk chicks to avoid any negative consequences.</p>
<p>No, it means that you made a bad decision, and that alcohol played a part in it. If you drive drunk it isn’t the car’s fault if you get pulled, if you do a guy with your drunk goggles on it isn’t his fault that he looks ugly in the morning. Saying that is “rape” is a huge copout. People need to take responsibility for their decisions, not ruin people’s lives over their own indiscretions.</p>
<p>“But in many if not most cases, women don’t have the physical capability of scaring or harming a man enough for him to back off. Many rapists would become brutally aggressive in such a situation. One of the rape victims I know was raped at knifepoint by a man who threatened to kill her. I don’t think that her resisting would have resulted in the man’s leaving her alone. He already had managed to drag her off the street and into his car.”</p>
<p>That’s called bluffing. </p>
<p>He’s not going to face murder charges just for sex. He can have sex with a prostitute for $100. 20 years of jail vs. $100?</p>
<p>Rape isn’t about sex. It’s about control. If your argument held any water then we wouldn’t have any rapists because they’d all go to bunny ranches in Nevada.</p>
<p>Would you really call his bluff in that situation? It’s not as if he said “Hey, I have this knife in my trunk, and if you don’t get in my car and have sex with me, I’m going to get it out and kill you.” She actually saw the knife. If he’s irrational enough to drag a woman off the street and threaten to kill her if she doesn’t have sex with him, do you really believe that he’s going to be logical enough to make some elaborate scheme where he can force women to do what he wants under duress and not actually fulfill his threats since he knows the consequences of such egregious actions? </p>
<p>Even if we were to assume that he was just that rational, it’s very likely that if she said “I know you’re not going to kill me, so get off of me,” her response would have elicited some sort of violent torture by the assailant in order to get the victim to give in to his demands.</p>
<p>got to back up cuse & east on this one. &, anyways, ‘drunk’ can mean different things to different people. as long as the girl is thinking clearly enough to be ABLE to say no, but doesn’t, it’s not rape. in such cases, ‘not no’ does, in fact, mean ‘yes’.</p>
<p>caesar, w are u even talking about? in case u were confused, we’re talking about rape here, not murder. do u know anything about rapists? at least go watch some law & order:svu. & no, rapists aren’t thinking about game theory when they’re choosing women to rape. they’re not mathematicians trying to “maximize raping potential”. omg.</p>
<p>I put you on some PCP I can make you do a lot of things you wouldn’t do otherwise: I could probably make you cut off your own dick provided you’re far enough gone.</p>
<p>Alcohol isn’t PCP obviously, but past a certain state (not just “drunk”) people can become completely unaware of their surroundings and what they are doing.</p>
<p>Otherwise, a merely inebriated girl who agrees to have sex and then regrets it in the morning - well obviously that isn’t rape. But just because a girl is conscious and “didn’t say no” - does not give you a free pass to do what you will with her.</p>
<p>It all comes down to what question you’re asking yourself when you’re with a girl who might be drunk.</p>
<p>Are you asking yourself – does this girl want to have sex with me? Is she too drunk to know what’s she doing? How is she going to feel about this in the morning?</p>
<p>Or are you asking yourself — how can I have sex with this girl right now, and legally cover myself? And start plotting your legal defense in case things go sour and it turns out she didn’t want to have sex with her.</p>
<p>I mean, do you actually WANT to have sex with a girl who doesn’t want to? Who is incapacitated? Are you that desperate?</p>
<p>Many of these rape cases probably come from guys asking themselves the second set of questions.</p>
<p>I know what you mean about the deer in the headlights thing (from previous post). Fortunately, I wasn’t raped, but I was molested when I was twelve. I didn’t say a word; I just froze. He was so much bigger than I was. When I tried to get away, he held me down. I never said no. It’s still not my fault: I at least try to believe that. I never reported him. Advice: if you are EVER assaulted, GO TO THE COPS. You will regret it if you don’t. Even if you don’t have enough evidence to have him convicted in a criminal court, you can sue him. The standards of proof in civil cases are much lower, and it will make you feel better getting at least a semblance of justice…and ruining his reputation so he’s not likely to do it again.</p>
<p>Thanks :). I know, but sometimes victims go through every little detail. Was I wearing revealing clothing? (I was wearing a tank top with a jacket: relatively modest, but not super modest.) Why didn’t I struggle and get away? (I had been training in the martial arts for 6 years at the time); however, this story is not really about me. It happened to me, but I am posting it so that maybe others drawn to this thread due to personal experience may find some comforting words…hopefully they will take my advice and press charges. The trial will probably be hell, but a short time of hell is better than a life of hellish regret.</p>
<p>Distasteful as it may be: the boys were saved from the ordeal of a trial and possible long prison terms by a cell phone video showing the accuser’s allegations to be a lie.</p>
<p>xorigin, it definitely was not your fault. u were way too young for ‘not no’ to mean ‘yes’ by any stretch of the imagination. & going over the details is no use, sick people do sick things no matter what a girl is wearing. thanks for sharing your personal story. & i never knew that information about a civil suit. thanks, again :)</p>
<p>Sure, there are some people who lie about being raped just as there are some people who lie about virtually anything. Still, the estimate that 1 in 4 or 5 college women has been raped or sexually abused isn’t based on rapes that were reported to law enforcement, but is based on how women have responded to research questions about whether they’ve been raped. Why would a woman lie about this if it’s a research project or some kind of survey?</p>
<p>Most women (and men) who have been raped or sexually abused don’t report the crime to the police.</p>
<p>NEW YORK, Dec. 10, 2009
NY Man Free after Woman Recants Rape Claim
William McCaffrey Cleared as Biurny Peguero Admits Tale of Gang Rape Was a Lie; He Served Three Years in Prison
The accusation of a terrible crime should not trump the presumption of innocence of the accused.
Each accuser’s story must be rigorously examined and tested to discover what the truth is.</p>
<p>Certainly some people are liars. The fact that some women lie about being raped doesn’t mean that there are not many women who are survivors of sexual abuse. </p>
<p>I have read about women who have lied about being raped. I know, however, women who have been sexually victimized. There was no reason for the women to lie to me about this. I was their friend – or in some situations – their therapist. They had nothing to gain by lying. I didn’t even know the men who had victimized them.</p>
<p>If you were to read an article about college student robbery victims offering advice to other students would you feel compelled to produce articles about college students who lied about being robbed? Why do you seem so interested in bringing attention to women who lie about rape?</p>
<p>Because robbery is a black and white crime, which does not rely upon the acts and roles of the two sexes. No one felt compelled to provide conflicting evidence because of the original article, but rather because of the argument which ensued. I’m not saying that I disagree with you, but that is the reasoning.</p>
<p>Say “do you want to have sex” and if she says yes, then it’s not rape. Rape means it was not consensual - she could have been too afraid to say no, too drunk to think properly, etc. If she didn’t want to do it, it’s rape. </p>
<p>Anything else, esp. this crap about “well if she’s sober enough to say no but doesn’t…” is a load of crap. Don’t go that route in the future. Whatever you did the past is the past, but looking to tomorrow, get consent. End story.</p>
<p>Sure, sometimes I’ve had sex without explicitly saying “yes I want to have sex” but we can all do our part to make sure we’re being responsible, safe people by just remembering to ask that simple question…especially if there is alcohol involved and BOTH parties may be lacking in judgement to tell what qualifies as “sober enough to say no” or something ambiguous like that. </p>
<p>Let’s just take the ambiguity out of it completely, eh? Being proactive like that doesn’t just protect women…it protects men too, because then there is no question about it.</p>
Being proactive like that doesn’t just protect women…it protects men too, because then there is no question about it.</p>