<p>‘Why should a drunk not be able to give consent?’</p>
<p>Men have had sex with women who were passed out. Surely that’s not OK with you.</p>
<p>@rnb1065: If the person was tricked into drinking then it was rape, no arguments from me there. Ditto, drugs.
I don’t understand your next point. You say that if you are unconscious you can’t give consent. So what is the problem?
The reason I don’t like the law is that it seems a really easy way for someone to falsely claim rape. It also makes rape sound less serious than it is.
@Northstarmom: Again, if a woman is passed out, how can she give consent?</p>
<p>My point is why should a woman be give extra consideration because she is drunk? And is a guy supposed to give a woman a breathalyzer before he sleeps with her if he doesn’t want to be charged with rape?</p>
<p>^^^I think you misunderstood northstarmom.</p>
<p>Have you ever been drunk before? Being drunk makes the situation far more complicated since one loses control over their motor skills, meaning that it is fairly easy to take advantage of a female in such a predicament, assuming that they are drunk enough. The breathalyzer isn’t necessary since one would most likely be able to observe obvious signs if a girl is really that inebriated. </p>
<p>You’re right about the law in the sense that any female can claim that a male raped them (although this can be said with many crimes), but you’ve neglected to mention the fact that most alleged rapists are not indicted on charges due to lack of evidence. This reminds me of the endemic problem of cases of date rape back in the 90s.</p>
<p>You guys don’t understand my point. It’s fine to hook up with someone who is drunk (or has been drinking, really - drunk implies they have had quite a bit).</p>
<p>But when someone is really drunk - they can be manipulated and influenced more easily - not to mention are handicapped physically. If you’re applying a ton of pressure on them verbally and physically to have sex - well it’s just a bad situation for all. If the girl initiates or flies the idea of having sex, well then you may be good.</p>
<p>I’m just saying there’s a difference between a girl having 4 (maybe 5) drinks and a girl having 8 or 9 or 10 drinks. Both are drunk but there are different levels. Sometimes the latter are preyed upon because they are easy targets and won’t know what has happened in the morning. If the girl you are with has had 9 or 10 drinks, maybe you should wait until the next morning.</p>
<p>Oh yeah and soccerguy, I see what you’re saying. If a guy and girl are both drunk, and both can’t consent while drunk, then can’t both claim rape anyway? And thus maybe there was no rape, or two rapes?</p>
<p>Although logically, assuming men and women are equal, this would make sense, the law and a judge would see it another way. First, a man has to physically get hard to have sex, which I guess is debatably possible while getting raped, but seems rare. Well - it’s complicated but I guess at least 9 times out of 10 it’s going to be the man pushing sex on an unwilling woman than a woman pushing sex on an unwilling man.</p>
<p>I’m just curious. I understand how it’s easy to get raped if you’re drugged. </p>
<p>Girls can also bite the guy’s throat. That is very painful and can kill him as well. </p>
<p>There are always opportunities to bite.</p>
<p>It seems that girls don’t put up enough fight to deter the rapist. Generally rapists (esp. college guys) won’t kill just to have sex. So if you put up enough fight then either he backs off or he’ll have to kill you. Obviously he’ll back off then.</p>
<p>Unless the girl is drunk. In which case, the answer is simple. Don’t get drunk. Don’t leave your drink unattended. Don’t get free drinks from other people.</p>
<p>" First, a man has to physically get hard to have sex, which I guess is debatably possible while getting raped, but seems rare."</p>
<p>“Rape” doesn’t just refer to intercourse.</p>
<p>Well, I don’t want to get into the law, but my definition of rape is limited to intercourse or penetration of any kind. So for a guy to be raped he’s either going to have to have sex or have something stuck up his rear end.</p>
<p>Anything else is sexual assault. If you’re definition varies, great - but I’m trying to stick to a common language society understands, so that we can have a discussion - if you think smacking a girl’s behind without her consent is rape - well there may be disagreements in statistics and our communication in that case.</p>
<p>Also, caesar: most of these rapes are by friends or romantic partners, not some violent random or strange thug. Most of the time there is just no will to fight - not a lack of strategy while fighting.</p>
<p>Plus - a rapist is not going to put his … in someone’s mouth now - let’s try to stay reasonable here - he’s know it’s going to be akin to sticking it in a bear trap.</p>
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<p>I was only referring to when a girl is really drunk, so I get what you’re saying.</p>
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<p>It’s really not as easy as you make it seem. The few girls that I’ve spoken to who have been in a situation like that have all said that they “froze up.” It’s always easy for a person to say that they would have acted in an appropriate manner to stop the attack when they’re not being placed in said predicament, but when the situation arises, one’s actions are quite different than they think they would be. And as spider-man above me said, let’s be serious about this.</p>
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<p>If you’re referring to anal or oral sex, I believe that would be classified as sodomy; groping or other lewd acts would be sexual assault (rape is also under the category of sexual assault, though).</p>
<p>Why do they freeze up? </p>
<p>At least they can bite the other person’s arm or neck. </p>
<p>It’s really hard to rape someone if they fight to the death.</p>
<p>Usually it’s the fear which spawns from several stimuli. Even in the case that I heard where the girl did fight back after being paralyzed with fear for a moment, her attempts were futile since the guy easily fought her off. Again, it’s not as easy as you make it seem and one often can’t just start fighting to the death.</p>
<p>"
Why do they freeze up? "</p>
<p>Because that’s what many people do when terrified. </p>
<p>“It’s really hard to rape someone if they fight to the death.”</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Given a choice between death or being maimed, many people would choose rape. That doesn’t mean they would want to be raped. It means that they’d see it as the lesser of the evils.</p></li>
<li><p>In many cases, the rapist is much stronger than the victim. Certainly most men are stronger than are most women. Rapists probably don’t select victims who appear to be stronger than they are.</p></li>
<li><p>In some cases, the rapist has a weapon.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>A much smaller or weaker person fighting to the death could still be fairly easily raped.</p>
<p>^^^God, I hope so.</p>
<p>^^
@ North </p>
<p>And also I thought adrenaline makes people run or fight… it doesn’t make them freeze. </p>
<p>Here’s my theory. The rapist does not want to kill someone because that’s a much, much more serious charge. Since there’s a corpse for the police to find, and the police usually puts more effort into finding a killer than an alleged rapist. </p>
<p>So if they know that you’re going to fight to the death, then they’ll just back off. Because they don’t want to kill someone.</p>
<p>Look. It’s game theory. Rapist pick out targets that doesn’t resist. If the girl resists (sufficiently) then the rapist will back off.</p>
<p>Stop pretending to know more about my feelings than I do. You’re making a fool of yourself.</p>
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<p>There is a difference between being drunk and being unconscious. Having sex with a woman while she’s drunk isn’t rape as long as she doesn’t say “no.”</p>
<p>@Augustusceaser it’s easy for people to say that they’d do this or that under a certain situation. But until you yourself actually face that situation, you really have no idea what you’re talking about. </p>
<p>I’ve heard stories of combat-ready soldiers who freeze up during their first actual firefight even if they were fine during training exercises, and soldiers who act like it’s nothing. Every person reacts differently.</p>
<p>Yes if the girl can resist sufficiently then the rapist will back off. I firmly believe that people ought to be trained in self defense and, if necessary, close-quarter shooting.</p>
<p>Cuse0507 said: "Having sex with a woman while she’s drunk isn’t rape as long as she doesn’t say “no.” "</p>
<p>Sex with a woman who doesn’t have the capacity to say yes or no is legally rape.</p>
<p>Even if she is conscious.</p>
<p>Kei</p>
<p>P.S. “yes” is not the same thng as “not no”</p>
<p>“Yes if the girl can resist sufficiently then the rapist will back off.”</p>
<p>But in many if not most cases, women don’t have the physical capability of scaring or harming a man enough for him to back off. Many rapists would become brutally aggressive in such a situation. One of the rape victims I know was raped at knifepoint by a man who threatened to kill her. I don’t think that her resisting would have resulted in the man’s leaving her alone. He already had managed to drag her off the street and into his car.</p>
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<p>Most drunk people can say “yes” or “no” if they are conscious. They may regret what they did in the morning, but hooking up with a guy who you would never do sober does not mean that he raped you.</p>
<p>Actually yes it does.</p>