<p>Has she looked at Georgia College & State University? I think its a hidden gem in GA. Its not OOS but it’s worth looking into. I am not sure if they have a debate team.</p>
<p>You should also look at other costs as well. My D has full HOPE at UGA but the fees not covered by HOPE along with housing and food still leave quite a bit for us to pay out of pocket. This really should only be an issue the first year though since UGA has the freshman must live on campus requirement.</p>
<p>Kayf – Dad never earned more than mom. She has the stable professional job with paid OT and bennies; Dad was a partner in a business that had its ups and downs. Drinking problem (and resultant misbehavior) has been ongoing and was a significant contributing factor in the business and marriage going downhill.</p>
<p>However, your comment about Mom needing to decide whether to support the D (and the younger son) or the ex is an interesting twist, and one I am sure noone has considered in quite that way. A lot of her motivation for keeping the dad afloat is because of the kids. She still thinks that if she gives him enough support and access to the kids, he’ll sober up. Suffice it to say, I would approach things differently.</p>
<p>My hunch is that the EFC will be in the $25-35k range, given that she will be working part time and based on my guesstimate of the income off the properties. I have no idea if the inherited properties have mortgages to offset.</p>
<p>Will definitely mention Furman to the niece.</p>
<p>mathmom, my niece has always been on the fast track in math at her school. If she can get in the calc class (there are scheduling conflicts), it will be taught as an AB/BC combined course. My understanding is that Georgia changed their math tracks a few years ago and she has not been well-served by it. She had Alg I in 7th grade, but non-AP HS math courses have been pretty screwy, she says. If we can talk my niece into coming up here, I am confident DH can help her get her math scores up 50-100 points. He is very good at analyzing error patterns and explaining the math where needed.</p>
<p>Counting down – sorry re misintrepration of mom v. dad earnings. I don’t mean to be brutal, but imho, enabling someone with a substance abuse problme is not a good idea. She is not helping him, and she is certainly not helping the kids. Yes this is painful, but she has to make some tough decisions.</p>
<p>*
My hunch is that the EFC will be in the $25-35k range,*</p>
<p>I think you first have to deal with that possibility. Unless this mom is making a ton of money, this mom is not likely going to be able to pay that if she’s paying for 2 mortgages and all the kids’ financial support. (You stated in your earlier post that she’s cash poor, so…)</p>
<p>So, I think you first need to talk to the mom and say that you think she may end up with an EFC in that range (which means about $2k-3k per month for 48 months for college). And, then of course, whatever she’d need to spend on Child #2. The mom certainly knows whether she has the means to come up with $2k-3k per month after she pays all her regular bills/expenses. </p>
<p>If the mom indicates that there’s no way she could pay anywhere near that much, then you’ll know that the school list needs to include a good number of schools that will give her huge merit for her stats. The other schools can be “financial reaches” just to see what happens.</p>
<p>Would this dad even co-operate with filling out the CSS Profile for NCPs that some schools require? </p>
<p>I agree with KayF…this ex needs to be cut-off. This all is just enabling the situation. An alcoholic is always a liar. He’s probably saying that she “owes” him this or some other nonsense.</p>
<p>She still thinks that if she gives him enough support and access to the kids, he’ll sober up.</p>
<p>Oh good heavens…he had 24/7 access to the kids before the divorce and he didn’t sober up. And…I don’t see any real benefit to having minor kids exposed to an alcoholic on a regular basis…it’s almost child-endangerment/neglect/abuse in my book.</p>
<p>kayf – I wasn’t offended at all. I think your point is an excellent one that the mom needs to hear. She has been frantic about further jeopardizing her credit rating because of the mortgage on the first house – the ex decided to build a huge addition just before the housing market tanked, so they are now underwater.</p>
<p>Suggesting she devote her resources to life preservers for her kids may be an effective argument.</p>
<p>Think I will go run some EFC calcs and try to get a better grasp on the possibilities.</p>
<p>Count, She needs to find out from a local lawyer, is she in a state where she can be sued for mortgage or not. If not, I wouldnt worry so much about credit rating, she may just have to kiss that goodbye. If yes, and HER house is not underwater, she needs to go back to court ASAP and get judge to agree to switch homes. SHE can not afford to pay two mortgages.</p>
<p>Many women try to avoid conflict. Please tell her she MUST put her kids first. </p>
<p>Please tell her to PM if she needs to talk.</p>
<p>the ex decided to build a huge addition just before the housing market tanked, so they are now underwater.</p>
<p>??? and he’s living in the big house? </p>
<p>She should sell the home she’s living in and move into that home, and get him OUT. </p>
<p>This sounds crazy. Is she paying “spousal support” for him…or are the mortgage payments the “spousal support”?</p>
<p>I agree with Kay…at some point, she may need to let that house go back to the bank. Before she does that, she needs to do whatever she needs to do for herself…if a new car needs to be purchased, etc. Since she has her own mortgage which will show good credit, she should let that go back to the bank…that will sober the ex up.</p>
<p>From what I understand, if she has any future credit issues, lenders understand these divorce issues and since she can show that she’s current with the home she lives in, lenders will overlook that other home’s issues.</p>
<p>I happen to like UGA, so my personal view (which counts for nothing of course) is to tell the D she’s taking the free ride at UGA. UGA for zip is a darn fine default position.</p>
<p>If the D wants better that UGA she’s going to have to work hard at finding a school that really, REALLY wants her (as in “We’ll offer you a free ride”). And then the D needs to think about the costs associated with attending a distant college. Pitt and South Carolina are good starting points. But there are many schools where Debate plus 1360 M+CR would be welcomed.</p>
<p>NewHope, yeah, I think the niece should have pretty compelling reasons to go someplace other than UGA, given the finances. The HOPE is full tuition at this point – I’m assuming she will have to pay R&B unless she gets another UGA scholarship. </p>
<p>She has said she doesn’t want to go crazy over college admissions, but she is the sort to put aside her true feelings in order to not cause a ruckus (a sad result of the tumult in her family). I’m also pretty concerned that UGA will swallow her up, esp. if she is not in Honors. She’s used to being the big fish. Her mom also went to UGA, but was in a professional program that was fairly small and so difficult that everyone bonded. </p>
<p>Yes, the ex is living in the big house. Mom’s the one who left. Selling the big house was in the divorce decree, but mom has not taken the ex back to court about it. (I have been bugging her for years now to get rid of the ^%$# house.) </p>
<p>I ran some guesstimated EFC numbers and for federal methodology, if the ex claims the kids, they will be at zero EFC. If mom claims them, it’s ~$20k federal and $30 institutional EFC based on her full time salary – $11k and $16k, respectively, on her part-time salary plus some income from the investment properties. Mom and ex have shared custody; not sure who is claiming the kids for taxes. I know my niece will move heaven and earth not to have to rely on her father for ANYTHING once she graduates.</p>
<p>I will be heading back down in a few weeks and plan to talk to the mom and niece some more. It is a really painful situation to witness. I want to scoop up her younger brother (a rising HS freshman) and bring him to live with us. He has been lost in the shuffle.</p>
<p>The parent that they live with the MOST is the one who is used for FAFSA.</p>
<p>If they live with both parents equally, then the parent who provides the most financial support is the one that is used for FAFSA.</p>
<p>If they try to use the dad who has no income, that will not fly. verifications will go out because it won’t make sense as to how they are living. Once they learn that the other parent has the good income, they will realize that the FAFSA app was fraud.</p>
<p>And…since you say that the D won’t have much to do with her dad once she’s in college, then she can’t really ever claim that he’s the parent she lives with during summers and such.</p>
<p>*Pitt and South Carolina are good starting points. But there are many schools where Debate plus 1360 M+CR would be welcomed. *</p>
<p>I don’t think either of those schools would give enough merit for a 1360 to make them equal in cost to UGa (with Hope). Pitt requires higher stats for free tuition…and I think USoCar does as well.</p>
<p>Typically, to get free tuition at schools like those, you need at least an ACT 32 or 1400 M+CR SAT. I think UPitt requires even higher.</p>
<p>So, she needs to retest.</p>
<p>Count–you are correct about R&B - Hope does not cover that but most schools don’t cover R&B in their scholarships, it just tutition. She will have R&B costs no matter where she goes. </p>
<p>My D is will be a freshman at UGA this fall and while it is a big school, there are so many ways to make it smaller but that depends on your niece. Also once she gets to college, she can separate herself as much as she wants from whomever she wants. Just because she is at UGA doesn’t mean they will have access to her. They can’t get in the dorms, they don’t have access to her information. She can control how much she wants to interact.<br>
If she wants to be a teacher, there is really no reason to pass up free tuition unless she really does not like the school.</p>
<p>Does she think that because she is at UGA, they will be more involved in her day-to-day life than if she was OOS?</p>
<p>I totally get that there would be big red audit flags a-wavin’ if the dad tried to claim the kids for FAFSA. (He had already thought of that angle last summer and I shot him down. Brutally.) Need to educate the mom on this because I expect the ex will want to try to pull this stunt and she needs to stop him in his tracks.</p>
<p>Niece took the ACT in June and is waiting for scores. Said she didn’t finish math, but thought she knocked the rest out of the park. Is also retaking SAT in the fall. If we can get her up here so DH can work with her on math, this would be a more productive retest.</p>
<p>I’ve had the chat with the niece about education programs being stronger at state schools and that if she wants to teach, where she wants to do so should be a consideration in where he attends. (OTOH, S2 had several outstanding IB teachers who went to Tufts. I just can’t justify that kind of $$, given my niece’s financial situation.)</p>
<p>Mom’s inherited properties are rentals in Athens (Mom and her parents/sib lived in Athens when she was growing up). Niece would have a place to live rent-free (though mom won’t be getting income from the place) after she is no longer required to live on campus. Makes UGA pretty compelling. We had UMD as the default here at our house, and both kids had merit $$ (one got a total free ride, the other had 2/3 tuition). Both chose other schools, though I still wonder at times if that was necessarily a good thing…</p>
<p>Thanks for all of your helpful feedback.</p>
<p>Another vote for Pitt. Also look at Univ of South Carolina (may not be far enough away, but they have some merit for out of state high performers.) Would she consider any of the Northeastern women’s colleges (Smith, Mount Holyoke, Wellesley? ) Many have some merit money, and they find students from outside of the northeast particularly attractive.</p>
<p>Niece took the ACT in June and is waiting for scores.</p>
<p>June scores were released yesterday. She can look them up online.</p>
<p>She just checked – hers aren’t posted yet.</p>
<p>Update: Niece got her ACT scores today!
32 composite – English and English + Writing: 34, Math: 29, Reading: 28, Science: 35
Concordance score is ~2190, which definitely is more reflective of her grades and her sense that the ACT was a much better test for her. This gets her to the Presidential level at Bama and probably Honors at UGA. With those two as financial/admit likelies, she has a good base on which to build. Now we look for some schools with workable FA in big cities and get the list together.</p>
<p>Do you all think she should retake? My inclination is to work on the essays and resume rather than spend more time studying for another ACT. I’m not sure it’s worth the extra effort to shoot for a 33-34 given she has super grades and APs, and she is not looking at Ivies (or should she, given their FA policies?).</p>
<p>CD: Yay for your niece! Here’s my 2 cents: D1 got a 32 ACT. That’s at the 98th percentile of all ACT test takers. I recommended to my D to just be done. And she was. If she’d been shooting for Ivy’s a 2nd try wouldn’t have hurt on either the SAT or ACT, but I knew the scores she had would work for both admission & merit aid at the school’s she was aiming at (but she was also NMF.) </p>
<p>Your niece has a great EC with debate, great class rank & an excellent GPA. What does SHE think?</p>
<p>RobD, she thought she should take it again, but I don’t think she realized until I broke down her scores how well she did. She has been to Harvard for their big debate tournament three years running, but does not want to apply there. (There’s some big-time insecurity going on.) She does love Boston and likes BU a lot. Is also thinking about Tufts, Northeastern and Northwestern. Syracuse and Pitt are also possibilities – but all of these are dependent on FA. She’s competitive at all of them. </p>
<p>I wish she’d consider some smaller schools and in particular, some of the women’s colleges. I think she could benefit from the mindset.</p>
<p>I am flying south to help out my parents this weekend and offered to pick her up and go to my folks so we can work on college stuff, but she has Harry Potter festivities going on Thursday night. Boy, did I feel disconnected from the rest of the planet!</p>
<p>CountingDown, how about Stanford where she might have a geographic advantage?</p>
<p>CD-
You might consider taking her to see College of Charleston. Its a popular school for students down here and she would shine there. Its not the NE and its not Duke, but its a cute school and very affordable. Good luck!</p>