College suggestions for niece -- UGA vs. ???

Parents Forum
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<p>Am helping my niece with compiling a college list. She is a rising senior, currently ranked #2 in her class of 450 (3.98 UW -- 98.something UW average -- has had one B in HS), 2060 SAT (760 CR, 600 M, 700 W), 7 APs (five 5s, two 4s), is taking 5-6 APs senior year. Is waiting for ACT scores. Lives in exurban Atlanta area. Would like to teach history or English. Major EC is debate; she is captain and has won many awards. Also does newspaper/lit magazine. Will not make NMSF.</p>

<p>Parents are divorced; father's company is bankrupt and in the process of being foreclosed upon. He has zero income. Mom has job in the health field, is paying her own mortgage, plus the mortgage on the family home where ex-H is living (she is still on the loan and due to ex's situation, cannot get off the loan). Mom also has some investment properties held in a LLC for her and her sister. Translated: property rich, heavy debt, relatively cash poor.</p>

<p>It would appear my niece has locked in a full-tuition HOPE scholarship based on grades and scores and so UGA would seem to be a safety she can afford. She plans to retake the SAT to improve her chances of getting into UGA Honors. I looked at UGA's 2014 stats page and middle 50% for honors is 1420-1490 CR/M.</p>

<p>Niece would love to attend school in Boston (she has been there for several major debate tournaments) or other major city. Wants to be be far from home. Wants a fairly large school. Likes Boston University. (However, I'm not sure it's worth the $$ vs. the almost-free UGA option.) She said she does not want to go crazy in the application process.</p>

<p>Any suggestions or thoughts?</p>

<p>I'm thinking about BU, Northeastern, Tufts, American, UMCP, Northwestern, WashU, but know these are all reachy, though not impossible. She has asked about UMass/Boston, but I looked at that in 1983 and fled, so I am biased. Would like to find some OOS schools (she is amenable to going cross-country) that would be "worth it" or larger privates that offer good FA/merit. Frankly, for someone who wants to teach, I am finding it hard to wholeheartedly recommend private schools, as I think the debt load will be a bit much. She has a ton of relatives in PA, but thinks University Park is too rural (though I think she'd wind up loving it -- but again, is it worth OOS vs. UGA?).</p>

<p>She has vetoed Emory (too close) and Duke (not her vibe).</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

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<p>*Parents are divorced; father’s company is bankrupt and in the process of being foreclosed upon. He has zero income. Mom has job in the health field, is paying her own mortgage, plus the mortgage on the family home where ex-H is living (she is still on the loan and due to ex’s situation, cannot get off the loan). Mom also has some investment properties held in a LLC for her and her sister. Translated: property rich, heavy debt, relatively cash poor.</p>

<p>*</p>

<p>I don’t see how her mom will pay for the “family contribution”…it sounds like the mom is already over her head with obligations which schools won’t consider…and she has property that will count as assets.</p>

<p>I can see finding some schools where she would get large merit as an option, but not schools that would expect her mom to pay a lot. I don’t see how PSU would be affordable as an OOS student.</p>

<p>How much could the mom pay each year? That’s going to largely determine where she should apply.</p>

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<p>I found myself is basically the same financial situation (UGA for free vs. T20 privates for 30-50k annually) and am glad I chose UGA. If your niece can raise her SAT to 1400 or perhaps 2200 overall, then she’d probably be competitive for Honors. Also, an SAT above 1400 would probably make her competitive for either Charter (1k annually in addition to HOPE) or Presidential (3k + HOPE) scholarships.</p>

<p>Does she plan to attend grad school after college? If so, there’s a lot to be said for a free undergrad. education. As far as education goes, UGA’s College of Education is very well regarded and I understand that its M.Ed programs are also pretty strong. If your niece is able to qualify for Honors, then she would probably be able to do a 4-year joint AB/MA.</p>

<p>

I initially felt the same way and almost attended Northwestern… in hindsight, Athens is just far enough away from home for me. An hour and a half from ATL means it doesn’t feel like home but it’s also not so far away as to be inconvenient.</p>

<p>I think (tuition-free) UGA is the way to go but my opinion is a little biased. :wink: However, if you want more info. on UGA or have any specific questions, there’s a bunch of knowledgeable folks on the UGA board.</p>

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<p>How about Pitt? They are generous with merit aid.</p>

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<p>I thought of Pitt not long after I posted… :)</p>

<p>I don’t think either of her parents has a clue as to how much they’ll be expected to pay…though I have strongly encouraged them to run EFC calculators and pointed out that the properties will be considered available assets, whether or not that is really the case.</p>

<p>Mom was recently laid off, but has now gotten a job, albeit part time (but in her field, that is still a decent wage). I’m just not sure looking further afield is going to make sense, but my niece has done well, and it would be nice to have more options.</p>

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<p>She wants to be a teacher! That’s my dream job! Has she considered Vanderbilt, it has an amazing school of education. Another school to consider is UT Austin. I highly recommend she should apply to Northwestern though…</p>

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<p>If she wants to be a teacher, I would be hesitant to take on much debt. </p>

<p>I live in suburban Atlanta and find that many tippy top students are going to UGA often in honors or Presidential, but sometimes not even.</p>

<p>This year’s Val and Sal at our high school are both staying in state, at UGA and at Tech. In fact at all the public high schools in the area, at least one, if not both, the Val and Sal are staying in state. It is hard to turn down HOPE. Even with some merit money, Hope does make UGA cheaper than most other options for most other kids.</p>

<p>Emory loves debate kids and I know many Atlanta families who have students at Emory who see those kids very rarely, just like mine who is much further away.</p>

<p>Alabama and South Carolina would probably award her terrific money. What about Tulane?</p>

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<p>Is she a policy debater? Does she plan on debating in college? That may influence her choices.</p>

<p>My D is also headed to UGA and will debate for them. This time last year UGA was 10th on her list. She was fortunate enough to earn the foundation fellowship, so it was an easy choice for her to select UGA over the schools. It is amazing how lists change!</p>

<p>In state we also looked at GT( though no debate program, but the students can debate for Ga State) Many debate kids head to Vanderbilt, Wake Forrest, Emory, Michigan.</p>

<p>It is hard to turn down state schools especially with Hope. Have her run through an EFC calculator that may help her in decisions.</p>

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<p>I don’t see how your niece will get any much, if any, aid from PROFILE schools. They are not going to be sympathetic to her mother’s plight. I would suggest that she look at the state schools and those with merit scholarships for which she may be a contender.</p>

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<p>I don’t think either of her parents has a clue as to how much they’ll be expected to pay…though I have strongly encouraged them to run EFC calculators and pointed out that the properties will be considered available assets, whether or not that is really the case.</p>

<p>that’s going to be the elephant in the living room. It doesn’t sound like the family can pay much, but will likely have an unaffordable “family contribution” expected.</p>

<p>*Mom was recently laid off, but has now gotten a job, albeit part time (but in her field, that is still a decent wage). I’m just not sure looking further afield is going to make sense, but my niece has done well, and it would be nice to have more options. </p>

<p>(3.98 UW – 98.something UW average – has had one B in HS), 2060 SAT (760 CR, 600 M, 700 W),*</p>

<p>I would encourage the niece to test AGAIN…and take both the ACT and SAT. Since she’s strong in writing section, that can help her on the ACT. However, her high W score on the SAT won’t help much for merit, since many schools don’t count the W section on the SAT for merit scholarships. So, have your D take the ACT, too, and to get a practice book.</p>

<p>With her CURRENT SAT …with a 1360 M+CR, she’s not likely going to get enough merit to make the school “equal or more affordable” than UGA without going to a lower ranked school. Since she’d get free tuition at UGa, for another school to be more affordable, she’d need to get MORE than free tuition.</p>

<p>What was her PSAT? She may be a potential NMSF. If so, that would give her more choices.</p>

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<p>Emory definitely knows her. She has been to their summer program plus kicked tail at their tournaments. :slight_smile: Has also qualified for the Harvard Invitational every year of HS. Gibson, I will have to ask her if she wants to debate in college.</p>

<p>mom2collegekids, my niece took the ACT in June – waiting on results. She does plan to retake the SAT to work on the math. We are hoping she can come up to visit so my DH can work with her (he is a real testing guru).</p>

<p>Niece says her PSAT was sub-200, so no money there. It makes me wonder how much or how effectively she has prepared for the SAT/ACT, since she nails the AP exams (fives in Stat, Enviro, USH, Eng Lang and Psych, fours in Human Geo and World Hist) and has been ranked #1 or #2 all through HS. Is taking AP Bio, US Gov’t, BC Calc, Spanish, Macro & Micro senior year. </p>

<p>My niece asked me if I had heard about merit $$ at Bama – of course, sweetheart, I live on CC! :slight_smile: Bama’s not as urban as she would like (but then again, neither is Athens), but if they give her $$, that would be good. What she won’t say is that she wants to be at least a day’s drive away from her dad. She says she can make UGA work, but is not as excited as I would hope she would be. </p>

<p>I went to UGA Honors <strong>way</strong> back in the day. I was a fish out of water and never really found my tribe.</p>

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<p>I think UGA has changed significantly from back in the day. Lots and lots of really solid students can’t even get in. The honors and other programs really do attract the tip top students from across the state.</p>

<p>University of South Carolina is worth looking at as well – I think they are generous with the financial awards for students with good stats if being away is that important.</p>

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<p>Do mom and dad live near each other? If so, if mom’s house is not underwater, she needs to sell it, move back into family home and dad needs to downsize. Sorry but mom needs to stop funding her X.</p>

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<p>CountingDown,</p>

<p>Has your niece taken a look at the places listed in the Guaranteed Merit Aid thread in the Financial Aid Forum? Would any of those give her a chance to get out of Georgia?</p>

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<p>Mom has been unable to get off the first house loan since she has always been the primary breadwinner. Dad has no place else to go. Zero income, no degree, and is an alcoholic who has not yet hit bottom. Mom and dad have shared custody, and so she has been reluctant to kick out her ex from the primary house since the custody agreement permits the kids to live there half time. They have had it on the market for some time, but the dad makes it difficult for realtors to show the place. They live in the same school district.</p>

<p>Mom’s current house is not underwater, plus she bought well below what she could afford. She also got slammed by the IRS for tax returns her ex never filed for his business (she has nothing to do with the business, but they came after her because they filed personal returns jointly). Has spent the past six years paying off the IRS plus all the debt he ran up on their joint cards.</p>

<p>Lastminutemom, I have another niece (HS '09) who couldn’t get into UGA with a 1700, 91 average and 4 APs (all fours). She has gone National Guard and will be headed to another in-state school this fall.</p>

<p>My DH seems to think that the rental properties the mom inherited will not be worth much in the current real estate environment and that the niece should look into privates because sometimes the FA works out better there.</p>

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<p>She should definitely work on the math - if she’s in BC Calc she must be capable. Even S2, who works very slowly in math, and is a bit iffy on some of his multiplication facts, managed an almost 700 score.</p>

<p>What a messy financial situation, it’s really a shame that your niece is going to get dinged by it through no fault of her own. :(</p>

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<p>Count, </p>

<p>Its an awful sitch. But I think mom should decide NOW whether she wants to support her X or put her kid through college.</p>

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<p>My DH seems to think that the rental properties the mom inherited will not be worth much in the current real estate environment and that the niece should look into privates because sometimes the FA works out better there.</p>

<p>I have no idea what they’re worth, but if they’re worth more than their mortgages (if they have mortgages) then they’re going to cause a bump in EFC. also, whatever rents that come in will cause a bump in EFC</p>

<p>Yes, apply to some privates just to see, but if the mom ends up with an EFC of - say $20k per year, I don’t see how she’d pay that or even half of that.</p>

<p>It sounds like the mom must have a decent income…which by itself is going to cause a problem with EFC. When you add the fact that she partly owns the ex’s home (I don’t know how that will count as an asset…anyone know???), and partly owns those rentals, and the rentals generate income…I don’t see how she won’t have an EFC of at least $20k or more.</p>

<p>It doesn’t sound like this poor mom can pay out $20k per year for school.</p>

<p>While your H is right that privates sometimes do a better job “meeting need.” however, that’s only half the problem here. The mom won’t be able to meet her EFC…and FA doesn’t cover EFC. </p>

<p>*My niece asked me if I had heard about merit $$ at Bama – of course, sweetheart, I live on CC! Bama’s not as urban as she would like *</p>

<p>Hopefully, the new ACT score will be at least a 32 (the scores come out tomorrow, I think). That would give her free tuition at Bama. Right now, her scores would give her 2/3 tuition scholarship, which is nice, but probably not enough for her.</p>

<p>make sure that she signs up for the Sept ACT and the Oct SAT…and any later test dates as needed.</p>

<p>I don’t know what your niece means by “urban”. Does she mean like a mega-sized city like Chicago or NYC? </p>

<p>Please ask her mom how much she thinks that she could pay for college. I look at it this way…for every $5k per year a family has to pay out of current income, that’s about $420 per month. So, if this mom doesn’t have an extra $850 left over each month, then I don’t see how she’d even pay $10k per year. </p>

<p>BTW…Since the mom was the primary breadwinner, it sounds like the situation of when the mom is a SAHM and there are minor kids. Some states will allow the the SAH parent to stay in the home while there are minor children.</p>

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<p>Mom2 – it doesnt seem to me like mom was primary breadwinner. Dad earned more, lost job and/or got drinking problem at same time. Even if he was sahd, which he wasnt, per OP, unless there are younger kids, once kids are in college, its time to for mom to decide who she wants to supprot.</p>

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<p>Here are some thoughts-if your niece is willing to stay in Atlanta-her scores ( I believe) would make her very competitive for the President’s scholarship at Oglethorpe, or Agnes Scott ( would she consider an all-women college?) I realize those schools are not in the class of Northwestern, Duke, small Ivy’s, but if the goal is to get a free-ride, there are some private LAC’s that would love to have her and utilize her debate skills. In state, I would also consider Georgia State College and University in Milledgeville, and I know several kids with stats not quite approaching your niece who love Berry College in Rome.</p>

<p>Here is another thought: Furman has several "Names scholarships: that provide a free ride-Furman has one of the strongest debate programs in the country and they have gone test optional. Furman has an Atlanta-based admissions counselor who I am sure would love to meet your niece. Also, i would check into Wofford and Presbyterian. With her current stats, I bet she could get a full ride and our DD was 3K shy of a full ride at Wofford. ( They also provide the 3K tuition equalization grant to Georgia students. Last thought is to check the President’s Honors program at Alabama. There is a mom ( whose name escapes me) who I believe has 2 sons there on full rides. God luck!</p>