<p>I am sure that money has a lot to do with it. If you are lower income and a NY state resident, you can go to Hunter for virtually nothing. Even paying the full cost, it is a bargain, particularly compared to, say, NYU. Also you are in NYC and can start auditioning and hitting the theatre world without as many restrictions. NYU does not permit its students to audition at least for the first 2 years, and the way courses are integrated into the schedule, you would have to take a leave to perform in most venues. S knows someone at Pace who is there for those reasons; cost, opportunities. Also getting into NYU is highly selective--you not only have to have a good audition, you need some good academic stats, and some kids who want to go into theatre do not have those stats to be accepted. BUt they want to be in NYC and get their feet wet right away. Hunter, Pace, New College and some of the studio programs give such kids the opportunity.</p>
<p>I agree with Jami. There are SOME kids who just really want to be in NYC. I am not agreeing with that, just commenting. In my view, you can get your BFA anywhere (or BA, whatever you choose) and come to NYC in four years to audition. But for the kid who just wants NYC, and either can't get into a school like NYU academically, simply does not like NYU, or can't afford it, there are programs in NYC (that cost less....though that girl was not from New York state) that might be an option for someone who just wants to do school in NYC and maybe audition on the side, whatever. I have heard of kids applying to Pace or Hunter just to be in NYC...same with Fordham.<br>
Susan</p>
<p>Hunter would be tough for a non NY student. The tuition is still reasonable, but I don't think there are many if any housing options available. 18 is awfully young to be just living in NYC and commuting and hanging around. Pace does offer dorms and the cost is well under $30k, tuition, room and board, and someone with stats that may not even get them into NYU, might even get some money from PACE. Perhaps this kid going to Hunter has friends or family to live with while going to school there.</p>
<p>I didn't know where to place this but I know it will answer some questions I have seen asked about who gets into MT selective colleges? Last night my sons friend was over for dinner and he confirmed that he was going to NYU/CAP21.
(My son had told me this but he is noted for getting his info mixed up.) I am going to call his friend BKdance. BKdance specialty is Chinese dance and he is a phenomenal choreographer but I have never heard him sing. He is in the top choir with my son but neither of them has ever been given a solo nor has either of them been given leads in the school musicals or plays. Both have been in Minneapolis Childrens Theatre productions, though I believe BKdance has never sung in anything other than perhaps chorus with them. As far as I know they are the only two kids, in the eight years I have had a child at this high school, who have ever gotten into a selective MT program. This is a school of over 3500 students. I am so thankful that both these boys had people outside of their school drama/music department who believed in them and encouraged them. Had they merely counted on their school teachers neither would now be perusing their dream.</p>
<p>Thanks Clueless! </p>
<p>As the Mom of a child who did a sum total of 3 musicals before being admitted to UM as an MT major, I LOVE hearing about the kids who don't have resumes a mile long and who are accepted to these great programs. No slight intended toward those with the fabulous resumes - they clearly have labored long and hard for those credits. It is just wonderful to be able to offer concrete evidence of other possibilities to those who feel they have less of a chance if they haven't lit up the world by the tender age of 17. The message here is that the only shots you are SURE to miss, are the ones you don't take.</p>
<p>My daughter got into Cap21 and never had the lead in her school musicals, either.</p>
<p>i never had a lead and probably never will except in a studio setting and i got in some good schools. i think the only ones leads count for much are experienced leading types. like say if a girl is a tall, gorgeous soprano that has been performing since she was a little kid, it would be odd to not have some leads on her resume, but it could just mean she comes from a school with a very strong theatre program. i doubt it would hurt her if she rocked her auditions.</p>
<p>It really is a relief to know that all sorts of backgrounds get in to these better schools. My D has been so busy with dance these past few years, MT has not been an option. What I'm curious about is how your SATs were for these better programs. I would think that for programs like UM and NYU, they had to be pretty good. 1200 or better?</p>
<p>Hi! I just found this forum and I'm excited about having a place to ask all the questions I have...my younger sister (upcoming high school senior) is just starting to decide which colleges she wants to apply to. I'm a junior pre-med at Case Western, and I know next to nothing about undergraduate programs in MT. But since I'm helping her with the college search, I am interested in learning as much as possible!</p>
<p>So here are the facts--she's got slightly above average grades (takes AP and some honors classes, but nothing spectacular), in the top 1/4 of her class, average SAT scores, lots of theater/voice experience & training, tons of leadership & service, and really wants to pursue a career in MT. We are looking at smaller schools in Pittsburgh (where we live) where she could major in music or MT, but she really would like to compete for a spot in a top program. Some of the schools on her 'reach' list are NYU, CMU, CCM, Emerson, & Ithaca.</p>
<p>My question is, how competitive can she be in these top schools with low test scores (she will be testing again, but I'm not sure how much she can improve) and grades that aren't anything spectacular? Can a stellar audition really overcome all? Or will she be passed over in favor of stronger overall applicants?</p>
<p>Thanks for putting up with this rambly post :-) I appreciate any help!</p>
<p>You might also look into: Boston Conservatory, Hartt School (University of Hartford), & Syracuse University. Audition is very important. SATs depend on the school, some places not important.</p>
<p>MTbigsis,
Willkommen! With the exception of NYU/Tisch and possibly Emerson, she shouldn't have a problem. Sometimes a department might consider stats as a tiebreaker if they have two kids they otherwise like equally; but, as long as her stats are good enough to be admitted to the school as a whole, it'll be mostly about the audition. I'd say she should think about auditioning for a few more schools, though. If you look at the FAQ on the top of the page, there will be a "big list" of schools she might not have yet considered. Also keep in mind that she can audition for several in one trip at the Unified Auditions in New York or Chicago.</p>
<p>My d's SATs were 1360 and her GPA is a 3.7 with all honors classes and 3 APs. Her stats are quite low if you look at all the stats on the NYU forum. I'm not sure how she got in, to be honest! Most of those SATs were in the 1500's, even for musical theater.</p>
<p>Those are truly amazing stats rossji! My D could only dream of sats that high. Her GPA is currently 3.9 & she'll have 3 APs with honors classes too. She's hanging on to being in the top 10 percent too, barely. Hopefully hard work counts as much as SATs. Audition obviously will be key as well. I am blown away by SATs in the 15s, in MT? Hopefully those kids are double majoring!!</p>
<p>RossJi...actually your daughter's stats are very good! Her SAT and GPA are average for NYU's profile of accepted students so it is understandable that she was admitted, not surprising at all . I don't think you can go by the SATs on the NYU forum because for one thing, those are not all Tisch applicants and frankly there are plenty of kids who were accepted with SATs under 1500. The average SAT for NYU is about what your daughter got. My daughter who got in had good SATs, which admittedly were higher than your D's, and she had two very high SAT2 scores, but her regular SAT was not over 1500. In fact, her SAT was under 1500 but higher than her friends who were admitted. I know one who got in with a 1300 SAT and I know someone who got in last year with SATs in the 1100s though that is under average for this school. I think several other friends who got in either had in the upper 1200's or 1300's. None had in the 1500s because they were under hers and hers were not in the 1500s on the regular SAT. </p>
<p>Melsmom, believe me, they look at the WHOLE child, not any ONE particular thing. Your child's GPA and challenging courseload and good class rank already is solid for NYU. I don't know what sort of SAT she has but kids do get in with SATs under 1300. I think ideally to be over 1350 for NYU increases the chances but clearly a kid in the 1200s has a decent chance, particularly if the rest of the profile is solid. In my opinion, the GPA and courseload are way more telling about a student academically than the SAT though they do use SATs too. And yes, the audition is a big part of admissions. I think many kids who apply for musical theater BFAs are also very good students (maybe not all are but many are). They may not necessarily double major but they are interested in academics and have fared well in school, on top of busy performing arts training and production schedules. Your daughter sounds like a hard worker and a strong candidate. It is hard to say without knowing her SAT but she can always retake them just to try to boost them a little as it can't hurt. There are also the SAT2 scores. NYU does not judge a candidate simply on numbers. It is the whole package. So, the essays are important...the ECs, the recs, the transcript, etc. Don't get too caught up on the SAT portion though you can't ignore it either. I think they would rather see a kid with a high GPA with a little lower score than a high score but low GPA (which some translate to underachiever in the classroom). </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>Thanks Susan,
M just got a pre-college prep coach who's D is in CAP21 and was told point blank that she was going to be working on her SAT vocab every day this summer to get her scores higher. (M's thrilled let me tell ya! LOL) Not every kid is a good tester and I'm sure admission offices give average scores for a reason, some are higher...and some lower. I know M will work hard, to try to do better and that's all I ask of her.
Your Ds both sound amazing (I've researched,) and we are all fortunate to have your words of wisdom on this forum.
Eileen</p>
<p>Melsmom, I think you are doing the right thing. I don't know your D's baseline score but if it is not in keeping with the rest of her otherwise wonderful academic profile, it might be worth putting a little time into learning HOW to take this test. My oldest daughter who is now 18 and just finished her first year at Brown, was a top student honestly. At the start of junior year, she took a practice SAT at home to get an idea of where she was at with that. While it was certainly above average, it was not truly in the same ballpark as the rest of her academic profile and could have been a detriment to her applications to selective schools that were appropriate schools for a student like her but her SATs were not in the right ballpark really and did not truly indicate her otherwise academic capabilities. She just had to learn to take this test. She used to not be able to finish all the questions on time and so that alone prevents scoring very high. So, she met about a half dozen times one on one with a tutor in junior year to go over anything individually that she needed to do to improve the score. She also took about three proctored timed tests and about three practice ones at home (practice tests alone can boost your score). That is all she did but I believe it helped. She took the SAT officially in April of junior year and it went up 100 points from the fall when she had done a practice test. She took it a second time in May, one month later and it went up another 100 points. She had a goal to get over a certain "benchmark" and she did and it did not matter to us if it was in the stratosphere, only that it was in the ballpark to not knock her out of otherwise appropriate colleges for her as a student. So, the goal was really to get her SAT in keeping with the rest of her stats but it did not matter if it was the highest or anything (clearly was not for the schools she applied to). </p>
<p>Second daughter was always a good test taker. She wanted to graduate early and so in March of tenth grade, had to take the SATs. She did not work with any tutor but she did a few practice tests at home to get used to the format and read over pointers in a book. She took them a second time in May of tenth grade, going up 100 points and then stopped. She had already scored almost as high as her sister yet at a year younger (tenth grade). She too, only wanted to get over a certain benchmark. She happened to do excellent on the SAT2s and took them just once in tenth grade, having done two practice tests at home first for each. I personally am not into these tests but they are one "evil" hoop you have to jump through. I think you just want the SAT to be in a reasonable ballpark for the schools you are looking at. Who cares if it goes higher than that! If it does, it helps but getting in the right ballpark can be your goal. And mostly to have the SAT reflect closer to her true academic achievements. I really think a good student like your daughter, as was the case with my older one, just needs some practice in learning how to take this actual test. I think for NYU, she will be in a good place if she can at least get 1300. She will have a chance for sure under that but it feels "safer" to get above that. Frankly, for many of the other BFA programs, it need not likely be this high. It helps at UMich though. Others have an avg. test score bar that does not seem quite as high in my opinion. The thing with NYU is....it is the only BFA program my D applied to that weighed academics 50% in the decision process. Just remember that I know kids in the 1100's and 1200's who got into Tisch. It is not out of the question. The rest of the application should be excellent (sounds like it is the case for your D) to balance it out. It just is a safer sense to get that SAT to the 1300s if possible with some practice (I would not get too intense about it but it is worth putting SOME time into it....it paid off for my older D to get her score higher and feel like her SAT was not gonna keep her out of the running at her selective schools). My feeling is that your daughter is a motivated student and likely will feel good to get this help in learning to take the test (that really is what it is about, not the content as much). </p>
<p>Let me just say my daughters are not amazing, not any more than the other kids I read about on here. Yes, they have achieved things and are good kids but most of these kids sound that way. I don't know that I have words of wisdom either other than a willingness to share what I have learned having gone through this now with two children. Believe me, when you are done with it, you'll be the same!</p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>Ahh...this time next year we will be done with it. Hard to believe. I'll give M the goal of 1300, it will be a stretch, but you're right... practice should hopefully help. I just hope she's as motivated as your girls to hit the books this summer! You only have to take these things once in your life, to get in to college, so it will have to be one of her top priorities. After that no more SATs. It seems so silly to teach kids to pass a certain test, when it isn't really an indicator of how they apply themselves to learn a subject, or a measure of their other talents. Oh well...another issue entirely. Thanks again for sharing the awesome advice.
Eileen</p>
<p>Hi All,</p>
<p>Just thought I'd add to the discussion about NYU. My daughter didn't even take the SATs. They are not something that many take out here in the Midwest. When we discussed it with someone from NYU they felt her ACT score was high enough, so she didn't necessarily have to take the SATs; however, I think it may have helped if she had taken them, in particular with regard to possible academic scholarship. After she was admitted I talked with a counselor who mentioned that her ACT score of 32 was just average for Tisch students. We think she's more than average :) but that just tells you the level of students who attend Tisch. She had a 3.89 gradepoint when she graduated from high school, however she was only in the top 15% of her class. </p>
<p>Hope everything works out for your daughter.</p>
<p>a number of next years freshman class at Tish have SAT's as low as 1050...with a good number in the 1100 to 1200 range. The entire package is what is important. GPA and talent.</p>
<p>A question - has anyone heard about the MT program at Belmont in Nashville?</p>