Colleges For Musical Theater - Part 40!

<p>Samia,
In my opinion, if you can belt, then they know that the belt mix is there, or can be there. I would sing a legit song and a totally contrasting belt song to show off range and versatility.</p>

<p>Actually, that's not totally true. All of the girls in my class at U of Arizona could belt - but not ONE of them could belt mix. It was completely foreign to me, and they couldn't figure out how to do it. Some actually offered me money to coach them on how to do it.</p>

<p>Is this not normal? Does a belt usually indicate the presence of a belt mix?</p>

<p>Samia,</p>

<p>It sounds like you are the perfect person to do this for me......As my D is a classically trained legit soprano, she is only now just beginning to work on a belt sound with her private teacher at UM, but just a little. She has a great range, a very strong chest voice and can move from her chest to head voice without the slightest break and it doesn't sound like two different people are singing in the different parts of her range (I think you know what I mean by that). But I hear her talking about belting versus mixing and I don't understand the difference. I know that Ethel Merman was the old time classic belter, but to be perfectly honest, I'm not sure I understand the real difference between singing in your chest voice healthily and LOUD and what everyone calls belting. I used to be a singer (somewhere back in the Cretaceous period, I think it was.......) and I don't remember ever hearing the term belt - mix. For those, like me, who are unashamedly uninformed, could you or anyone else (Coach C, are you out there?) describe the difference - how it sounds to the listener, where in the vocal range these techniques are best used and what it FEELS like vocally to produce these different sounds - belt and belt mix (head voice I understand)?</p>

<p>Thanks everyone. You will have solved one of MT's great mysteries for me.</p>

<p>PS Both her teacher and Gavin Creel have told her they believe that strong, well trained sopranos eventually make the best belters......Any thoughts on that?</p>

<p>Hi Everyone: Eventhough I am new and don't have nearly the experience many of you generous folks have I am going to offer my thoughts anyway, just for the feedback. I agree that your performance at the audition is probably paramount. As far as the resume goes, it would seem to me that as long and the school sees a commitment to MT, and by that I mean to number of years the student has been involved, that should be sufficient. They can't possibly know the competition any one child has had in any production to hold a lack of leads, etc. against them. Yes, common sense would say that leads indicate talent, but not necessarily. Any I don't mean 10 years plus of a commitment. I personally am hopeful that just the high school years are sufficient (which is my daughter's case, although some of her lessons go back farther). It only makes sense that if the schools see lessons and participation that, assuming the talent is there, it should be adequate. At the same time, given the level of talent, I know if our case the odds are greatly against my daughter getting into one of the top tier schools. I am not being overly negative here, but realistic. With thousands of auditions, I feel you truly have to knock them dead or get their attention with SOMETHING to get a thumbs up. My daughter has talent and she has that "sparkle" quality (if she can stay calm), but I know there are kids out there that will blow her out of the water. Which leads me to this question: Are we being aggressive enough with 3 reach schools and 3 safety schools? We have definitely restricted ourselves from a location standpoint and it seems that there really are no in between schools around for us. It could be that one of the schools really is a match and not a reach school. While I am at it I would also like to comment on the early decision discusssion. In particular with Emerson. We were specifically told not to apply early decision. Now I understand why if they don't let you know until everyone is told, why bother? Also, something else that I am getting the feeling of is that there are kids who are accepted to MT BFA programs when their academics don't measure up. Maybe they are on the low end of the scale but their talent is a little better than the kid who qaulifies academically hands down. I hope I don't offend anyone because this feeling has come directly from the schools (not that it was said, but...) not from any discussions here. If my instincts are correct, these schools are dealing with this the same way athletics is approached by the colleges. That's unfortunate in my opinion because there is more to the student that one aspect. How's all of that for a newbie! I apologize for going on so. Am I talking out of my hat? I would love a response.</p>

<p>It's me again. I am sending this because the posting of my above reply got delayed by a day or so. If it seems late as a response, that is why. By the way, I have trouble accessing this discussion from time to time. Does anyone else or has this already been discussed and I missed it?. It is like the site is down for some reason.</p>

<p>I have had some difficulty the past few days, as well.</p>

<p>Theatermom: A belt mix sound is created through a manipulation of the vocal cords that combines aspects of legit singing and true belting. I know that doesn't help much, but the official definition seems like the best place to start. Belt mixing is much easier on the voice than belting, but has that same ping-y quality. For a really good example of belt mixing, listen to Carolee Carmello in the cast albums of Parade and Hello Again. She is the queen of the belt mix. She rocks.</p>

<p>As far as what it means to have a "healthy" belt, I am starting to suspect that they actually mean by that is having a strong belt mix. I've read in so many places that true belting is extremely harmful for the voice, so this whole new "healthy belt" thing is intriguing to me.</p>

<p>When you sing higher notes in a belt mix, it feels like you're singing soprano notes really loud. Also, it's possible to crescendo and decrescendo from a legit tone to a belt mix tone seamlessly, with no break whatsoever.</p>

<p>Hope that helps!</p>

<p>dramaMOMMAqueen,</p>

<p>I think you've made several good points with regard to resumes and auditions and it sounds as though you are approaching the process realistically. Not really knowing your D, it is hard to comment about your school selection but the mix of what you have ascertained as 3 reaches and 3 safeties seems reasonable, especially if you are limiting by location.</p>

<p>With regard to Emerson, not sure why or who told you definitely not to apple ED to Emerson because it doesn't exist. They DO NOT offer an Early Decision option for BFA MT, which would be binding. Their Early option is EARLY ACTION. Under this option, the student submits their application and auditions by early December. Emerson then acts on these applicants in one of several ways and you get that decision before the first of the year. My D auditioned in early December and heard on December 15. You can be offered admssion to the MT program and the school. This is an Early Action acceptance, which means that they want you, but you do NOT have to commit to them until you are ready, but sometime before the universal commitment day in May. They can DEFER you and then you fall into the pool with the rest of the applicants who have decided to audition/apply as regular decision candidates. You will then not hear back until the early Spring. You can also just be turned down for admission. The last possibility is the one experienced by Soozievt's D. She was accepted academically but deferred into the regular decision pool for MT BFA applicants and received their decision in the Spring. Lots of possible outcomes, but none binding on the applicant. A little confusing, but I hope this clears up the Emerson process, at least.</p>

<p>Perhaps if you wanted to share the schools you are considering, folks would have more feedback for you. If you don't want to do that, that's fine too.</p>

<p>Finally, with regard to accepting students with less than stellar academic records, this practice varies widely by schools. Several schools, including some of the top tier schools, take academic achievement very seriously while others do not. I think it is important to remember that like it or not, a BFA degree is really designed to be a pre-professional track. My brother-in-law, who is a RISD and Cranbrook trained artist likes to joke with me that much like he thought about himself, my Michigan MT D is basically going to Vo-Tech school. And UM is, of course, one of the schools that DOES consider non-MT academics to be important for both admission criteria and as an important facet of the 4 year educational experience. In the crudest sense, I guess a parallel would be that you don't evaluate the person who cuts your hair on the basis of their SAT scores. I personally believe, as I am sensing you do as well, that intelligence and academic achievement contribute significantly to the artistic process but that notion is not always shared by the folks making these decisions.</p>

<p>Finally, Lynnm and dramaMOMMA, the site has been down due to technical changes being made to improve the server speeds. You can read about these if you are so inclined by checking out the Moderator posts at the top of the discussion home page. I think they are done and things should be back to normal now to stay.</p>

<p>Thanks Samia. That does help a bit and confirms what I suspected. I'm not sure how "healthy" belting could be other than a belt mix. So then what distinguishes the use of a healthy belt from the normal healthy use of the lower part of a singer's register, I.e., the so called chest voice? Is it simply that the belt mix is the technique that facilitates the smooth, "breakless" transition between a healthy chest voice and a healthy head voice? Why does it feel like all these terms complicate what is a pretty straightforward process of singing in a healthy manner? And OMG, the competition is fosters......</p>

<p>Coach C IS here...barely (oooh grad school and coaching crunch time!!!) - but I wanted to let you all know that a paper I am writing comparing the actual physiology and aerodynamic features of belt and mix (including the degree of muscle tension involved in both) was just accepted at the 3rd Annual Conference on the Physiology and Acoustics of Singing, to be held in York, England in May. So as my research progresses, I will report back with actual measurements of the comparative vocal "stress" of both belting and mixing. </p>

<p>Some more info on belting and mixing:
from <a href="http://collavoce.pantac.com/Articles/what_is_belting.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://collavoce.pantac.com/Articles/what_is_belting.htm&lt;/a>
(The author, Lisa Popeil, knows her stuff!)</p>

<p>What Is Belting?
Colla Voce Home | Back to Articles</p>

<p>Have you heard someone refer to belting? Perhaps you’ve been told that it’s bad for you, but you don’t know why. And what’s the difference between just singing and belting?
Belt is something you hear all the time in popular styles of music. It’s the sound in a voice that tells you it’s not classical. Think of the loud Barbra Streisand sound or Ethel Mermen. Mariah Carey, Celine Dion, Bette Midler and Bernadette Peters are a few more. Not Charlotte Church.
I would define belt as a high percentage of chest voice and a lot of umph, which is exactly why it can be dangerous, if not done correctly. Incorrectly means plain old chest voice or anything that hurts. (Taking chest voice higher and higher will likely cause pain.) SINGING SHOULD NEVER HURT.
Correct belting has a strong bright resonance sensation in the mask, a lot like classical, but not so much floaty or "up". It could even feel kind of brassy, nasal and nasty. It's more like talking or shouting than what you might think of as beautiful singing. The sensation in the throat is more engaged than in classical singing, feeling rather like it leans forward in the throat. This is where people can get into trouble, because the throat shouldn't push or grab. You must have a teacher helping you discover the right way. (Some people are natural belters, though, and have little trouble with this.)</p>

<p>FAQs
Is belt only for females? No, but the difference between belt and classical isn’t clearly heard in a man’s voice until he gets pretty high in his range, so we often tend to think of a belter as female. In musical theater “belter” is a female voice/character type.
Is belt always loud? No, but again, the difference between the classical sound and the belt sound is more easily identified when it’s loud.
Is belting bad for your voice? No. When done correctly belting is not bad for the voice. That said, it’s a highly energized sound, and if you try to do it without getting it quite right, you will wear out your vocal instrument. (See above, concerning chest voice and pain.) Voice teachers used to be afraid of teaching belt because their training was classical and they didn’t understand it. Then they’d hear an untrained belter with vocal damage and say, “See! It’s damaging for the voice! I won’t let my students do it.”</p>

<p>Also, check out this link!!!
<a href="http://www.nyst.org/documents/belt.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.nyst.org/documents/belt.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>(The author, Joan Lader, is a HIGHLY respected voice teacher AND certified speech-language pathologist - and woman after my own heart!!! She teaches in NYC, big-time people, and also at elite workshops like Broadway Theatre Project.)</p>

<p>Coach C</p>

<p>I just knew you would have this info (or know where to get it). SO HELPFUL!! I'm copying this post and sending it off to my D, Thanks so much!!</p>

<p>Thanks so much for your response. You are right. I keep loosing sight of the fact that, in reality, many of the BFA schools really are, in a sense, vocational schools. I guess when I think of college I think of a more well-rounded education. Regarding admission and academics, I suppose it's like a lot of things these days and can be somewhat "political". As far as the schools my daughter is applying to there is absolutely no secret. I apologize if I made it seem so. They are: NYU, Emerson, Elon, American, James Madison and George Washington. I don't get the George Washington because there really is no program there that comes close to what she wants, but whatever. I am hoping that Elon is not quite the reach I am giving it credit for because it is probably the place I would most like to see her outside of possibly New York. I am afraid New York might be too competitive and take the fun out of the experience for her. I know the training is important, but I still want her to enjoy whatever college experience she has. She wants small which Elon is and I feel like it might be a more friendly environment. I hope that doesn't sound funny. Anyway those are the schools. American and James Madison are her safe schools. I would like to have another one or two to consider. I looked at Muhlenburg's website and I can't remember why, but I could not get a handle on the program. I also looked at Rider (Westminster Choir) but I think my daughter felt it was way heavy in the voice area and based on their audition requirements (several songs required as I recall) she's probably right. Anyway, any advice is always welcome.</p>

<p>CoachC: thank you SO MUCH for that fascinating information about belting, etc. I went to all the websites you suggested and through them discovered Lisa Popeil who it turns out lives only minutes from us! I am calling her today to arrange (hopefully) as many lessons as we can fit in before my D's Feb. auditions. My D's last voice teacher did not believe in belting AT ALL, and as that is what comes most easily to my daughter, she felt hemmed in by only singing soprano in her head voice at every lesson. Really, I have lived here for over 15 years and between both my daughters we have been through quite a lot of voice teachers, but I was never aware of Lisa Popeil. I don't know how or if these lessons will work out, but i am really grateful to you for making it possible for me to make this connection. The other websites you recommended were really helpful as well. I am sending copies to D#1 at UofA.</p>

<p>I have been lurking on this board for quite some time. My daughter is so all consumed by her desire to be accepted into a BFA college (preferably Tisch), her mood of the day is determined by whether she is feeling confident or not. At any given time she is either on top of the world with determination or rock bottom with despair not believing in herself. This board has been so helpfull to us. We would not even know how to begin the process of applying to a MT program had we not come across this board and drawn from the knowledge and generous support and posts by many. Theatermom's post about kids not having to have the whole package to be accepted into a MT program was very uplifting. My daughter has taken dance for most of her life, but it has only been recently that she has become all consumed by taking private voice, drama lessons, etc. HOWEVER, we live in an extremely limited city as far as having opportunities to perform, etc. Even the drama club and classes at her high school are sadly lacking. The non-interest and lack of support by the teachers at the school is disgraceful. The drama teacher says that "seniors get preference". No matter if they are best qualified or not. Opportunities are greatly limited here. So to hear Theatermom say that it isn't necessarily the "best of the best" or the cream of the crop that gets into these programs is VERY uplifting for my daughter. Of course, I am the realist in the familyh and I do know that the level of talent, experience, etc. is extreme and she would be competing against some wonderfully talented kids. But I have always tried to convey to her that if she gives it her best, the powers that be look for potential, as well as polished talent. I cannot believe that NYU, UM, etc. are ONLY LOOKING FOR FINISHED BROADWAY MATERIAL. If so, what are they there for? What are their classes for? Why even bother applying to their program? Just skip the middleman and go straight to the stage. Dramommaqueen's post about not having a 10 year list of credits is also uplifting. As I said, our city is EXTREMELY limited with regards to what is offered in performing arts. The local ballet company (my daughter hates ballet! while she took for a few years, in these later years she has not) consists of the "upper crust" old money, a circle that is virtually impossible to break into. They perform the Nutcracker year after year after year. Same girls until they move on to college. I'm just trying to convey that the opportunities for these kids vary greatly. I am glad that some of you on this board are encouraging to those who are reaching for their dreams. Keep it up so they won't feel shot down before they even try. Especially if they haven't had the opportunities, experience, etc. that so many of the children of many of the posters on this board have had.</p>

<p>Not really.... but I have always thought her comments and insight have provided some of the best information and encouragement on this board. Glad to know that it has provided reassurance and direction to others, both lurkers and participants!
I also strongly believe that there are so many paths to take in order to reach one's dreams - and the journey is as different as each young aspiring performer. As parents we are here to provide support, assistance, a listening ear, and an occasional reality check. No one wants his or her child to wind up regretting not taking that chance at going for their bliss. I get a lot of pleasure reading the posts of the many parents ( and students ) who are helping to make it happen.</p>

<p>LAWoman--there are all sorts of ways to skin a cat, as the saying goes. some kids who do not get into their first choice for MT are able to transfer over to another school the following year. many kids my D is in school with now transfered to her school from other MT programs. some (like my D for example) found that the school they ended up at, not the first choice school at all, has turned out to be a godsend. when i dropped my D off at college the first day she said, send me an application to X college--i am going to transfer. within a few weeks she told me to forget the application. she has had opportunities beyond my wildest dreams for her where she is now, and has made a very special contact whom she never would have met elsewhere. that is not to say she would not have been happy at another college. usually, kids who end up at a place where they can study and perform MT, where they feel nurtured and that their talent is appreciated, and who make friends with kids who are like-minded, can be very happy. also, even tho there are few venues for your D at school in theatre (my D's theatre department is run by a man who believes that there should be no blocking--everyone must stand in one spot for an entire performance--and that is one of his better ideas!!--) your daughter can still find a lot to do in the summer out of state. and it need not be expensive because most of these camps usually offer some kind of financial aid. it would be a great idea for your daughter to strike up an email correspondance with MT kids from other colleges so that she can get the idea of just how great other schools are. some of those kids are on this board. she can also visit the schools and sit in on classes with prior permission. i think the key is preparation: apply to enough colleges and the ones that are really a good match (and safety colleges too of course) so that there will be choices for you D in april. that will make her feel that she is in control of her destiny a bit.</p>

<p>Thank you sareccasmom -- I know that there are different ways for my daughter to get to her goal -- but convincing her is another thing entirely! At the beginning of this year (her junior year) it was "NYU or nothing". I must say since this theater bug has bitten her she has become so focused and determined, if for nothing else, I am grateful for that! She is always working on her EC's (also limited -- one school club teacher came into the first meeting and said "I don't want to do anything for this club -- you're on your own") She studies all the time to bring her GPA up, challenge herself, etc. It leaves very little time to get into trouble, if you know what I mean! I support her and encourage her in anyway I can. She is registered for Stagedoor Manor for this summer (which I learned about on this board). </p>

<p>We live in Alabama and we do have the University of Alabama which has a great MT program, as well as South Alabama (in our city) which would fit my pocket book just fine!!! FSU is also close by. So she does have other choices and I think I have managed to plant the idea that it wouldn't be so bad if she had to attend one of these schools vs. the ultimate NYU! As I have told her, there are summer programs at NYU, as well as senior showcases there. But we are 'going for the gold', if for nothing else to prove to herself that she can do it. What happens will happen. As I have told her the odds are just as great that a polished, experienced performer won't get in because of the small percentage that is accepted each year. More people don't get accepted, than do. Regardless of talent, experience etc. In that respect the playing field is leveled somewhat.</p>

<p>LAWoman and Monkey,</p>

<p>Thank you so much! I can't tell you how good it feels to know that I'm able to return some of the same encouragement that was given to me by posters on this forum two years ago when I was the nervous Mom of a talented but relatively inexperienced MT dreaming daughter. It's really true that what goes around comes around. Not only did I discover some real CC angels whose advice was indispensable but I've made some friends I hope to have for life.</p>

<p>As always, I send my best "break a leg" to all of this year's auditioners. Show them who you are with passion, honesty and joy. Be the best you that you can be and with that make them understand that YOU are what they've been looking for all along. Lucky them!</p>

<p>Omigosh, just when I thought I was getting a handle on the whole college admissions thang (well, not a "handle" but at least getting an idea of how things work), one of you experienced people mentions extra curriculars. Is participation in dance and voice classes and in community theater considered "extra curricular" if they are outside of school and on one's own time, or is that just considered "training?" And if that is considered training, then what kinds of extra curriculars pass muster, and what kid who is doing school all day and dance/voice and community theater all night has time for the kind of volunteering that the schools want to see?
My D's former high school (a private, college prep academy for girls) had mandatory community service hours, which the girls fulfilled (sometimes grudgingly, sometimes with a good heart) in different ways, from volunteering at soup kitchens to tutoring illiterate adults, etc. Her current school (a public arts high school with admittance by audition only) does not have these mandatory hours. (They also have a longer schoolday, which runs from 8 a.m. to about 4:15 p.m.)
This whole discussion reminds me of an episode of the "Gilmore Girls" in which the daughter character named Rory wants to go to Harvard and discovers her sophomore year of high school that everyone who applies to Harvard has a perfect GPA and test scores, and what she needs is to (as she put it) find a blind, developmentally disabled adult to teach how to play softball. Of course, that was meant tongue-in-cheek. I frankly don't like the idea of my D volunteering for a cause unless her heart <em>is</em> in it. Forcing a kid to do a certain EC because it looks good on a college application seems somehow wrong. But then again, I don't want to be naive.
Advice needed, oh wise ones!
Lisa</p>

<p>on my D's applications, she listed her involvement in community theatre as EC, and her dance and voice lessons as training. activities she was involved with at school such as drama club, theatre productions, comedy sportz, convention, etc., she listed as EC because they usually involved after hours, weekend, or overnight activities. community service can be really tricky. My D is a huge Broadway Cares Equity Fights AIDS fan, so she contacted their main office in NYC for some supplies and information and arranged with her school to collect donations after every production. If she was in the production, it was not a problem time-wise because she was already there, and if she was in another production in the community, she always made sure to be at the high school theatre in time to catch the audience going in or coming out!</p>