<p>Thank you AlwayaMom for that clarification as it is black and white. The other information is unfortunately not even remotely the case and as you say, it is too bad with all the impressions and misinformation that is out there. Thankfully some read CC! :D</p>
<p>NotMamaRose...I'm glad YOU bothered to ask here and did not go by what you "heard". Also always ask directly at any school you are exploring (though I know it is too early in your case). I'm glad you are reading here!</p>
<p>There sure is a lot of misinformation and miscontrued stuff "out there". Hopefully people are choosing their schools based on information and then determining fit. In this case, the grad vs. undergrad issue is nonexistant at Tisch. Cut and dry. As you say, there may be OTHER reasons for someone to not choose Tisch but this is not one of them.</p>
<p>Thanks AlwaysAMom who has an older child at Tisch and also is VERY familiar with the in's and out's and facts and for your willingness to provide them. I only was able to share about performance opportunities and I know grad students are not connected at all to the undergraduate Tisch professional studios or productions. You gave the black and white facts, so thanks!</p>
<p>I didn't see the previous posts when I just posted but a response....</p>
<p>First, NotMamaRose.....believe me, my D is not that different than her peers in BFA programs! I just share some of her experiences. She tells me of the incredibly talented peers she has met in her freshmen class at CAP all the time ("I don't stand out at all") and I have seen her a capella group and they have amazing voices. She saw that musical last night at CAP and said the singers were amazing. She saw a GAP show of Bat Boy and raved about some of the leads. She is really not any more talented or special, believe me. She loves it and I think has talent but she will be the first to tell you, she has so much yet to learn. Who knows if she'll "make it" but she can try. </p>
<p>I forgot to mention that a big part of school so far is having seen SO MANY shows....I've lost count...must be 20 so far....be it on Broadway, other shows in the city, NYU, Steinhardt, and at Tisch or CAP. </p>
<p>MaryAnna...you make a good point about freshmen though I think the original query focused on performance opportunities in general.</p>
<p>I just read your new post and agree wholeheartedly. After all the many things Susan has told us on the board about her daughter, I can hardly wait to see her name in lights!</p>
<p>Susan, you must be proud indeed. It will be hard for the other students to live up to the standard of excellence she has set. But it is a great goal for other students to shoot for.</p>
<p>I salute Susan's daughter and all the other students and their achievements, great and small.
We are all proud of each of you.</p>
<p>Mary Anna,
Thanks so much for your thoughtful and informed response. As I said in another reply above, I think the idea of having freshmen focus on training (not to mention just getting accustomed to college life!) is an excellent idea.
In fact, when my D moved from her all girls private school to her current school (an urban, public arts high school with admission by audition only), we knew going in that the focus there was on <em>training</em> and <em>preparation</em> for performing, rather than performing, and we agreed with that wholeheartedly and still do. (At her former school, pretty much all performance opps -- shows, etc. -- were extracurricular. Her drama teacher there argued strenuously that our D would be better served by staying at her former school and participating in shows extra curricularly --is that even a word? --than by going to a focused training program within an arts high school setting. We disagreed for a lot of reasons, but the main one being that at the arts high school, she has the benefit of 7 or 8 different and experienced acting/voice/movement teachers, rather than one person. Plus, she gets to spend four hours a day focusing on what she loves with other kids who also are serious about their art area. In other words, now theater doesn't feel like an afterthought!) Plus, she still gets on stage experience via community theater productions.
Of course, I know there are people who feel that either an actor/MT performer "has it," or they don't, and no amount of training can make a difference. There may be an element of truth to the "has it" part, but I think we would all agree that good training and experience help, too.
Lisa</p>
<p>Something I heard yesterday brought (yet) another question to my mind, and I wanted to see what you all think.
A classmate of my D's was cast in a large MT production being staged in Europe. (I would say what it is and you guys would recognize it immediately. But I am not sure it is OK for me to do that here.) In any case, this student will now be leaving school for the rest of the year and living abroad with other actors participating in the same musical. (I am not sure if this student will come back or not when this is over. This student does work a lot: has been cast in various high budget movies, etc. It's possible this student will finish out the musical and then be cast in something else.)
This made me wonder: did any of you consider just getting your child an agent and letting him or her work, rather than sending him or her to college? It's pretty clear from your presence on this board that you see college as the way to go. I am totally in agreement. I want my D to experience adolescence (a theater-filled one is her choice, but still a normal, teenage, HS experience!) and college. But clearly, some parents have different feelings about this, or else we would never see kids on Broadway, in movies, etc. In fact, come to think of it, I know another local mom whose daughter has had an agent for awhile, and who carts her back and forth to auditions in New York and DC. (The girl has not worked in NY, to my knowledge, but has done some Equity productions in DC.)
Love to hear your thoughts, as you all clearly have talented kidlets.
Lisa</p>
<p>I have a former student who graduated from the Professional Children's School who decided to forego college this year, move to L.A. and continue working professionally. That's one story.</p>
<p>I also have a current who, in my opinoin, could very easily just get an agent and start working in L.A. or N.Y. I feel like she is ready and doesn't need to go to college to learn how to act so that she can work. That's another story.</p>
<p>It really depends on the student and whether they want a college experience or not. Training is not essential to make a living in the business. But sooner or later, actors will realize they need to study and once they have decided that is when the time is best right for them to learn techniques of the acting trade.</p>
<p>What I'd still like to know is what about the students in MT colleges who really never get a chance at a role, lead, supporting, or even chorus, in their four years at school? I know of many kids this has happened to. Yes, they had their performance classes, etc., but no real main stage experience. How do these kids do after graduation? Does anyone have an idea on this? Perhaps CoachC, Maryanna?</p>
<p>Well, I can tell you that when an actor comes in to audition for me, I am always interested in their training.</p>
<p>Having said that, if I even read their entire resume, which usually only happens at a first submission, I care less about what roles they played in college and more about the quality of their audition.</p>
<p>The actors who tend to book the most jobs/shows are the ones who look best for the part and audition well, regardless of their college credits. </p>
<p>Many performers don't come into their own until they have been out in the real world after graduation. Many college "stars" fizzle along the way. There is just no telling who's going to make a living.
Ain't this business grand!?</p>
<p>Peachy. Maybe we'd be better off to go gamble the several hundred thousand dollars of tuition in Vegas and take the winnings and open our own theatres???</p>
<p>Sure, alot of the kids in the top drama programs could probably go out and get cast in a sitcom, or a musical, or a film even. But what these programs do is prepare them for a CAREER - give them the tools they need to stay in the business after that first sitcom or musical, give them the tools they need to become a versatile performer.</p>
<p>I am particularly interested in what you said about college not only giving kids performing experience, but also preparing them for <em>careers.</em> How do colleges do that, exactly? In other words, do most BFA programs have the kids take classes in the business aspect of show business, from getting an agent to what an agent does, how much he/she makes of the actor's salary, etc.? As we all know (even those of us who are not involved in theater as a profession), there is more to being an actor or musical theater performer than just getting on stage and doing it! There is the whole process of getting work, getting and dealing with agents, etc. I would be interested to know if the top programs (NYU, CMU, CCM and others) offer training of this type. If they don't, they should.
Lisa</p>
<p>I can tell you a bit about what's offered in that regard at Tisch. First, here's a link to a page of the courses available to drama majors, which include the MT kids in Cap21.</p>
<p>As you see, there are classes for audition technique, preparing for the profession, many practicum courses, as well as internships. In addition to these Tisch classes, the third year of studio, for my D and her classmates in Atlantic, for instance, is focussed on refining their performance skills and offering valuable professional experience. It's a year of performance and practical experience. I would imagine that the third year for Cap kids is similar. </p>
<p>Here is a link to the studio curriculum for Cap kids:</p>
<p>You can see the progression of study. Every Tischie has three days per week of studio from 9-6. On the other two days they have their Tisch academic drama courses and any courses they may be taking as a double major in the College of Arts and Science. Perhaps others here can provide similar info for you from some of the other schools but I would be surprised if any of the schools here did not provide instruction in the business side of things.</p>
<p>As AlwaysAMom said, Tisch, as well as most BFA programs do incorporate courses and workshops on the "business" of theater and on auditioning and preparing for the business and entry into it when they graduate. </p>
<p>I just want to point out that the link to the CAP 21 curriculum year by year must need to be updated. It is not entirely accurate in terms of sequence (though I am sure the topics alone do give an idea of what is included in the four years). </p>
<p>I can just tell because the first year, which my D is in, is not that list of courses exactly. Maybe they changed the sequence in the curriculum since that site was made. </p>
<p>Which schools on the East coast have a musical theatre program that contain both education on classical musical theatre (opera) and contemperary? Thanks a lot</p>
<p>Just want to echo that most of the good MT programs have courses on audition techniques, practicum courses on researching trade rags, agents, in general - just the "business" of show business. On the question of "diving" into the biz right out of high school - certainly 30 years ago - this was the norm - but today many casting folks like the idea of a well prepared and more mature cast member. From a human developement & counseling point of view - I think we give our students/children a much better chance of succeeding in life (including a life in the theatre) if we provide a supportive enviroment in which they can continue to hone their skills, as well as, continue to grow emotionally and spiritually - past the age of high school graduation. Obviously, I favor a college trained auditioner. Having said that - college is not the right path for everyone - and I no some phenomenally talented young folks who tried college and (ususally for academic reasons) did not find it to be the right fit - and who then have gone off and had a career....but even those folks - in the long run - probably would have done better for themselves down the line with more formal education.</p>
<p>Let me just explain where we are at with this. I put in our request to establish alphabetical subforums for the MT colleges. As you know we already have ongoing threads on many of the programs though they don't always stay on the front page. Often newbies, understandably, ask a question or start a thread on a school and then we have too many threads on each school and others have been diligent to bump up old threads on that school so we don't have to repeat the same information over and over, and I have tried to merge old and new threads when I can (when others bring it to my attention!). We also want people to find the information they need and as you all know, there are only a finite number of BFA MT programs in the first place and it is not like a normal college search process. </p>
<p>So, CC IS going to let us have subforums on the MT Programs. I am HOPING to have 30, as I have chosen 30 from the "big list" that are the BFA programs (or close/similar to BFA programs and are by audition) most often mentioned or selective ones. Then, I am HOPING to move all existing threads on those schools over to the these new subforums so we are not "starting over". I'm not going to be able to move over individual posts about a school that exist all over the place in other discussions, such as in THIS thread even. </p>
<p>Right now, hold tight everyone because it is in transition. The forum administrator just wanted to set it up with five schools to show me and make sure it was along the lines of what is needed. Another moderator last night moved some threads over, though he is not familiar with our forum or schools. I am waiting to hear from them on how to do it. Last night I tried to move over more threads I found on those five schools. I moved them but I may not be doing something right (I'm no techie) because when you click on the school's subforum name, you don't see the threads I moved (just the ones HE moved), yet the "thread count" includes the ones I moved! I found the ones I moved when I DON'T click on the individual forum but rather click on "Musical Theater Forums", THEN the individual college, and THEN a link that says "text only". I know this is not right because the threads HE moved can be found by simply clicking on the name of the subforum for that school. So, bear with me! </p>
<p>I am just waiting now to hear if they'll take my list of 30 schools, put them up, and then show me how to move the threads the right way. I wanted to just do it all at one time but the person who technically sets it up wanted to start with the five schools first so I'm just working within the system to get you guys what you want! </p>