Colleges for the Jewish "B" student (Part 1)

The public ivy term was coined in a book a few years back and yes indeed Binghamton was listed along with about 30 other public schools. It is a bit of a silly term which seems to upset many for some reason. Binghamton is hardly the only one to include it in their marketing.

" It is a bit of a silly term which seems to upset many for some reason. Binghamton is hardly the only one to include it in their marketing."

I’m not upset about it at all - I just think it’s ridiculous as is the whole concept of “public Ivies.” I know a slew of people who graduated from Bing - from my generation and those following it. I don’t think any are under the illusion that Binghamton is a public Ivy. As many have already said - it’s a good school - graduates get jobs and lead very successful lives after - and the school is an excellent value for the money.

Also, if some are looking for a school with a large student Jewish population it definitely fits the bill. I would compare it to Syracuse in terms of academic strength and Jewish life on campus - though Syracuse has some excellent colleges which only the best & brightest get into (Newhouse, for example and The Maxwell School for graduate studies) JMO though.

All the shortcomings and criticisms of Binghamton and the other SUNY schools can be found at other state schools. However, there is a real lack of buzz and spirit on the campuses to compensate like at Rutgers, U Conn, U Mass and the others in the Northeast. The SUNY schools just never developed beyond the delivery of education.

“However, there is a real lack of buzz and spirit on the campuses to compensate like at Rutgers, U Conn, U Mass and the others in the Northeast.”

Sounds like a good choice for those that think going to uni in Germany is a good idea. See this thread - http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1783891-hello-germany-and-auf-wiedersehen-high-tuition-and-loans-p1.html

Cuse87, you are off the mark. My response was to someone who did not want to go to a school where people were “too happy”. I think Twogirls got it right. The description seems consistent with my impression. There are many positive things about the school but it is not a “public Ivy” or a “flagship” or the “shining star of the SUNY system”. This is my opinion. It isn’t fact. I try to be accurate with any facts I include. My goal is to be factually accurate.

I’d advise prospective students of any school to investigate each school carefully. Distinguish the school’s PR from information from other sources. Weigh pros and cons. The point of this site is to encourage conversation about colleges. It is not PR for the school. Those who have a different opinion than mine are free to post here as well. Students who know a considerable amount about each school they are considering (pros and cons) will be in the best position to make informed decisions. Students have a right to hear the full range of opinions before selecting any school.

It is my opinion that until very recently, the school seemed to be unabashedly dishonest regarding many things. It seemed like the prevailing value was to lie, and then once caught, continue to lie until it is obvious to just about everyone. And when that happens, just blame the person speaking out or blame someone else or don’t comment. This appeared to be a driving value. Get ahead at any cost. You can read the Kaye Report. If you read that report, you should wonder about how widespread the mentality that justified the sports fiasco was. Is it possible that what was happening with sports was happening in other ways across the campus? If a school is willing to be dishonest in such a big way about sports, are they being dishonest about other things too?

These are some of those other things. And this is also just my opinion. The school seemed to promote itself as safe but students on crutches and with broken jaws talked about their experiences of being assaulted in places where students often go. People being mistreated, like those assaulted, who tried to access help didn’t seem to get help. The school appeared to be denying hazing was happening when many people on campus seemed to be talking of specific instances of hazing. Students seemed to be increasingly closed out of classes while the school seemed to be promoting the idea that it was a a top tier “Public Ivy” type of school. There appeared to be people on campus who were allowed to treat others miserably while victims seemed to have no recourse. People who spoke out seemed to be punished for it. Offices that gave the appearance of existing to protect students’ rights seemed to do little for those whose rights seemed to be violated (and read the articles below about the conduct of those offices). The school’s PR seemed to be less than transparent. Read about the Instructor Dear fiasco. Had the media not been clued into what was happening, I suspect Instructor Dear would have simply been fired for speaking out. Take a look at the history of the Research Foundation, for example. As I recall, there was alleged to be conflict of interest or the perception of impropriety when the former university president negotiated with NYSEG and also with a local developer about swank apartments. Whether those allegations were true or not I don’t know. There were articles written at the time. The issue seemed to suddenly disappear. The school invested heavily in moving to Division 1 and built top notch sports facilities, at the same time they seemingly failed to put money into academic buildings that were run down and into electronic resources in classrooms. Things as minor as copying seemed to be rationed while millions were being poured into sports. Audio visual equipment seemed almost like it was from the pre-electronic era. There seemed to be a flight out of there by faculty and staff. Did the focus on building swank dorms and sports facilities while ignoring academics reflect the school’s values?

There is a new university president. Hopefully the new president will improve things on campus. But you don’t erase a decade of harm in a short amount of time. Burying stories using Rep Management won’t help either. Some of the same people involved in the sports fiasco, and cited in the Kaye Report for wrong doing, are still at the university. Some are in critical offices. And it looks like some may have been promoted after being cited for improper conduct by the Kaye Report. Even if you know about the Kaye Report, you may not know about the post- Kaye Report revelations. It turns out that the university or the Research Foundation appears to have violated the law by not subjecting the choice of a law firm to do the investigation to mandated bidding They apparently were so set on having one particular set of lawyers conduct the investigation that they did not send the job out to public bid. I can’t imagine that was a benign mistake, can you?. The school has lawyers who must know that large expenditures must be subjected to a public bid. Why didn’t they? This fact seems more worthy of scrutiny than the basketball fiasco itself does. Why would a university risk big fines for the sake of employing the specific investigating team that they wanted to use to investigate the possibility of corruption at the university?

I hope things have improved. Ensuring dissemination of honest information will help.

http://blog.timesunion.com/capitol/archives/22788/pricey-no-bid-job-for-former-chief-judge-or-when-suny-met-judith/

http://www.mindingthecampus.org/2010/02/binghamtons_diversity_experime/#more-7827

http://www.stargazette.com/article/20121022/NEWS01/310220066/Audit-SUNY-foundation-faulted-spending-913K-investigate-BU-basketball

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304370304575151704097966286

"10/23/12–13:53: Comptroller Critical of BU Report
New York State Comptroller Tom DiNapoli has released a scathing audit of the SUNY Research Foundation citing numerous instances of abuse and questioning how the investigation into the basketball scandal at Binghamton University was handled.

DiNapoli says the foundation paid nearly $1 million to a New York City law firm to write a report on the circumstances that led to the turmoil within the men’s basketball program. Former Chief Judge of the state Court of Appeals, Judith Kaye, oversaw the investigation. The comptroller says a contract with the firm was only signed after the report was completed and that there wasn’t proper justification ahead of time for hiring the firm without going to a bidding process. DiNaopli’s office was also critical of the use of the Chancellor’s account which spent thousands of dollars on alcohol and over 9 thousand on a club membership fee for Chancellor Nancy Zimpher. A Zimpher spokesman says she canceled the club membership prior to the audit beginning."

I will repeat what i’ve said-there are many positive things about Binghamton University. It is a great school for some students. It has some good departments. It has some problems too. Note that the report by the Comptroller was written in 10/23/12. That is not ancient history.

^^I am a contributor to this thread on occasion. More so a few years ago when my kids were actively looking at schools. At the moment I’m a lurker here. I would just caution you, lostaccount, very nicely, to watch what you say on this thread. It has been in existence for 5 years and many people find it helpful and socially accepting. I’m sure you think you are doing the right thing and I honestly have not read all of the most recent posts regarding Bing in the last few days. However, I saw a bit of tension in your posts and just want you to be helpful, encouraging going forward and not cause this thread to be derailed too much or worse, closed. Thank you for your consideration.

Thank you Chochipcookie, I will not post any more here.I did not mean to derail the thread. I meant to only explain bur you are correct and I won’t derail.

I was the one that posted that a college had students that were too happy for my DD (Muhlenberg). She is an introvert and needs alone time to recharge. Some campuses we visited were too busy and the students were extremely outgoing. (Cal Poly SLO and UCB were other examples of over stimulating environments). My daughter felt that since she wasn’t as outgoing as the other students it would hurt ability to maintain strong friendships - if she kept declining invitations or left the parties early her peers would stop asking her to join them. She chose to attend a tiny new public charter that offered Hebrew for Jr. high and high school and her school had more introverts than extroverts. Her friends were all creative low key types - no wild parties and late nights. Finding a similar set of peers in for college was important. She also wanted an environment that LGTBQ friendly. She feels she will be happy at the school she chose.

And that makes perfect sense - it’s all about finding a good fit and knowing what you are looking for.

aeamom,

Based on some of your desires for what you want in a school for your daughter, may I suggest you research Sarah Lawrence. Small school,solid jewish population, very gay accepting and welcoming. Might be perfect. Worth checking into


^ ^ it was on her early lists of schools and I think it would have been a good fit - strong writing program and open curriculum

Not to beat a dead horse but this really saddens me. I grew up on Long Island in the '70s (yeah, like The Wonder Years), and SUNYs were very popular and well regarded. Stony Brook, Albany, Binghamton, and Buffalo were considered the hardest to get into because they were “university centers,” but of the four, Binghamton and Albany were considered the flagships. The best and the brightest of NYS went to those two, with Binghamton considered a hair more competitive than Albany. It is a shame what has happened since then. Albany is not very competitive at all now, and Binghamton’s student body seems to me to be a lot less competitive (based on stats) than it used to be.

Yeah, NYS should have a flagship like Michigan. It’s almost like Cornell is the flagship in some ways.

SUNY total enrollment is approx 460k. I do not think they are hurting for enrollment nor are they hurt by not having a flagship. https://www.suny.edu/about/fast-facts/

Also, four of the schools at Cornell are state funded though not a part of SUNY, as is the School of Forestry at Syracuse.

I was up at Binghamton for a couple days last month. I spoke with a number of BU students, and they seemed very happy with their education and their experiences there. They liked the place.

Which is not to say they liked every particular aspect (eg weather). Not too many people at places like Rochester, Buffalo, Syracuse are crowing about the weather at their respective schools either.It’s an imperfect world. Yet there are those who choose to attend all these schools, nonetheless.

Regarding research, which came up before, some of the students I met had done research. I met a kid who did an Honors project in his major, and was going on for a doctorate in the field. From what I saw it seems possible (but I don’t know that this is true) that the opportunity may be rationed to those who make departmental honors, with a certain GPA in one’s major. But frankly that was the same at my daughter’s LAC.

The school does have a large jewish population, and has off on jewish holidays.

At least in my area it would be a bit tough admit for the true “B” student. Its admit rates have been among the strongest of the SUNYs. As have its graduation rates. But for those within the range, IMO it is worth a look.

One caveat is, I was told the university is undertaking an expansion plan, by somethng like 20%. The reason given did not involve any unaddressed educational needs of the State, rather it was to help improve the local economy in Binghamton.
Which, if you’ve been to Binghamton, may not be a bad reason in and of itself, but still
 But this was just a student telling me this, not a reliable source.

As for Binghamton’s students entrance stats recently vs 70s: I can’t say about now, but when I looked at this a number of years ago when D1 was applying, it had dipped a bit on a relative basis compared to other schools, but not that much really, in the overall scheme of things. It fared better in this regard than most of the other SUNYs, over the years.
Circa 1970, Binghamton admitted 48% of applicants, mean SATs of 612 Verbal, 627 Math (source Cass & birnbaum college guide, 1971 or 1972 I forget)

I think that for top students, Binghamton sometimes starts off as a disappointment, but ultimately the kids adjust. Many students apply to other colleges (private and out of state), get accepted, and then are told by their parents that the other schools are not economically feasible. So on one hand, it is an acknowledgment of their hard work in high school to be able to say that they got accepted to higher ranked schools, but it is also vastly disappointing to many to have the other options taken away. Partially it is a situation of parents not be upfront with what they are willing to spend from the beginning. Other times it is that parents were misinformed and really didn’t do their homework about financial aid. But all in all, once the kids go off to school, it seems that most of them adjust well and see that they are not alone and that there are a lot of other top students there. And the fact is that Binghamton does offer a solid undergraduate education for the money and many students do go on to be successful.

Quick sidebar: Watched this cute (well sorta) movie on the redeye last night about a screenwriter who takes a position as as visiting professor at Binghamton. Classic Hugh Grant. Did give a bit of the flavor of the campus and weather and such. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2509850/ The writer/director is a bing grad http://www.binghamton.edu/magazine/index.php/magazine/feature/happily-ever-after-binghamton

I just received the inagural issue of Hillel magazine. I don’t know how to get a copy but I would bet that the info is on the website or you can contact them. In it are advertisements and articles about students in colleges and some are on this thread. I don’t know the particulars about all of them but they include: Trinity College, CT, Michigan State, UGA, Gettysburg College, U Minnesota, U Iowa, De Paw University, Muhlenberg, U San Francisco, Ithica College, Virginia Tech, Arizona State, Texas A &M. Westminster College, Utah, UC Santa Barbara, Dickinson, U Richmond. It also includes the listings of the top colleges Jewish students tend to choose. How nice to see so many choices here.

I believe this is what you rcvd:

http://www.hillel.org/magazine

Link to order your free copy.

Yes that’s it- thanks !