<p>surfgirl – Yay for your story. It’s CC anathema, but I’m with you on this. I don’t know that our kids are necessarily equipped to make the right decision on any of this without our input.</p>
<p>I’ll take absurd reasons for crossing schools off lists especially since the first (well thought out) list of colleges last year had 33 schools on it! (A kid at our church had mentioned the year before that he and his parents had visited over 25 campuses in 2 years; I leaned over to my DD and said “uh, no chance of that happening with us!”)</p>
<p>My northeast born DD decided to cross off schools that prominently featured snow covered scenes on their websites (she has become Southern!) </p>
<p>Off the list after visiting:</p>
<p>Belmont: Too small physically; felt claustrophobic; talked about Bible Studies in the dorms. But she did love the biology teacher that talked to the kids about the Pre-Med program. So hated the campus, but thought the instruction/faculty interaction would have been good.</p>
<p>University of Georgia: Didn’t even go to the 2nd part of the program. Seemed very “vanilla” and didn’t have that school spirit feeling (which we were surprised at since it’s an SEC school.) When the tour guide stopped in front of the chapel and talked about how popular it is for weddings, she told us that a lot of girls say “pick your date before you pick your mate.” Yeah, that might have been the final nail in the coffin for UGA 
Younger DD who was along for the ride took about 10 steps on the walking tour when she looked at me and said “I could never go here, it’s way too big!” And it does feel massively spread out.</p>
<p>Centre: too isolated & student body felt too small. However, she said the class she sat in on was the best lecture she’d ever attended.</p>
<p>University of Alabama at Birmingham: Loved all the Health profession options but ultimately felt like it was too much of a commuter school. Loved the Honors building though & thought the Honors class syllabus they handed out was outstanding. </p>
<p>Princeton: after visiting all these friendly Southern schools, DD was shocked at how unfriendly staff was here (and we’re from Jersey!) Students & others strolling the campus seemed pretentious (it was alumni weekend.) Lady in the undergrad admissions/visitors dept. seemed bothered by us asking for a map and pointed across the room to where a pile of brochures were stacked. I told DD: they really don’t care if you apply because 20,000 others will & they’ll only take 9%. Gets the vote for best library though; they had a great Special Collections exhibit that had just opened with a lot of primary sources displayed from the founding of the U.S.</p>
<p>Still on the list after visiting:</p>
<p>University of Alabama: fell in love the moment that her feet touched the campus. The buildings and campus looked exactly the way she (and we) thought it should. Staff & students were friendly and seemed genuinely happy that she was visiting. Great dorms (best we’ve seen) along with fantastic food choices. Excellent honors programs.</p>
<p>Birmingham Southern: Most hospitable school she’s visited. Had a reserved space with her name on it when we pulled up Loves, loves, loves her Adcom from there. When we visited, students were on break, but we had a lovely impromptu chat with a librarian and professor that made me turn to her and say “this is what you get at an LAC that you might miss out on at a Research university.” Their science building has floors made out of some type of stone; when they started putting it down they realized there were all fossils embedded in it so they have brochures about the fossils that you can look at to identify the ones in the floor. That just tickled my younger DD to the point that she thinks she wants to go there (but she’s only in 9th grade.)</p>
<p>University of Tennessee: gets the vote for best tour guides of any school. The two guys were fantastic! It was fine and she liked it better than she expected but it doesn’t have anything better than UA (especially the dorms; UT’s dorms need to updated.)</p>
<p>Rhodes: very Hogwarts; beautiful gothic campus. DD liked it, but is still concerned about LACs being too small. Concerns about Memphis were gone after visiting. Talked to the President & Head of Financial Aid without knowing who they were; they just came strolling through the waiting area and very kindly asked if anyone had questions and talked to the kids. </p>
<p>Vanderbilt: Was already familiar with the campus because of a program she participated in. But said that their Black & Gold Days would have turned her off if she wasn’t already knowledgeable about the school.</p>
<p>^Funny about Princeton, RobD. After visiting, their library was immediately rated WORST (and I make a point of visiting the library of every single school I go to, so I’ve seen a lot) because other than the special collections, it’s not open to the public. If Yale can open its cathedral-library to the public, if any of the 25+ schools I’ve visited can do that, and Princeton can’t (why, is the architecture sacred? the space too easily dirtied?)–well, that told me something about the administration’s attitude wrt egalitarianism.</p>
<p>I don’t remember a ton about college visits - it seems so long ago, even though it’s only been a few years! But there were a few that stuck out to me. They all looked great on paper, but were off the list after a visit.</p>
<p>Brown - I’m going to have to jump on the bandwagon and say that this was one of the most unfriendly campuses I’ve visited. The woman at the admissions office (which was TEENY!) seemed annoyed that we were there and didn’t give us much information or anything. When I asked if they had a card for me to fill out to say we visited, she looked at me like I had three heads. The campus was old with some pretty buildings, but seemed kind of dingy. I also did not enjoy Providence.</p>
<p>Sarah Lawrence - Everyone I met seemed like a sort of angry hippie (is that an oxymoron?). Not very welcoming, and people were too weird. It also seemed too small.</p>
<p>Bryn Mawr - Didn’t even get out of the car. The students just seemed too “out there”. I knew I was not going to fit in.</p>
<p>American - I enjoyed the campus and the students, but I’m not super-involved in politics and every bulletin board I saw was covered in political activism materials. I know, I know, it’s DC… but I just didn’t think I would fit here, either.</p>
<p>Haverford: I couldn’t really define it, but it just didn’t “feel right”.</p>
<p>George Washington & NYU - The lack of a physical campus, with green grassy quads, was an immediate dealbreaker.</p>
<p>Amherst: Too snobby and too small.</p>
<p>Schools I loved after the visit: Columbia, Cornell, UPenn, University of Delaware, Swarthmore</p>
<p>I ultimately ended up at Johns Hopkins (if you couldn’t tell from the user name). Oddly enough, the first time I visited, I didn’t like it at all. I was visiting in a sleet storm and my tour guide was terrible - he was just mumbling into his scarf and seemed like he was trying to get rid of us as soon as possible. I have sympathy for him now because I know how awful it is to have to give a tour in bad weather! I gave it another shot later on and loved it. It was a beautiful spring day and I loved the campus, the students, the facilities, the location - everything! It really made me appreciate how much the weather can influence your first impression, good or bad. Anyway, I ended up having a fantastic undergrad experience at Hopkins, so the moral of the story is: if it really seems like the right fit on paper, try to give it another chance (if you can). Don’t let bad weather or a bad tour guide ruin a whole University for you!</p>
<p>Schools my daughter and I visited, our mutual impressions, and the outcomes:</p>
<p>Savannah College of Art and Design, Atlanta campus and Savannah campus: well marketed, well-equipped, strong emphasis on becoming marketable as an artist. Daughter not sure she would get enough right-brain action. Applied and received a full-tuition scholarship. Did not attend.</p>
<p>WashU in St. Louis: Beautiful campus, very committed faculty, really nice kids, quality education. Applied and received the Danforth scholarship. Could see herself double majoring in fine arts and another subject. Second choice, but did not attend.</p>
<p>Carnegie Mellon: Did not like the facilities. Students intense, unfriendly. Excellent reputation, but the art program was not as fine-arts oriented as she wanted. Applied and accepted, but did not attend.</p>
<p>Pratt Institute: Liked Brooklyn setting, but not enough at school to keep her interest. Did not apply.</p>
<p>Parsons: Get me out of here!</p>
<p>UGA: The destination school for over half of her high school graduating class. Wanted a different experience. Applied, accepted, declined.</p>
<p>Rhode Island School of Design: FELL IN LOVE with RISD. Liked the setting, the feel, the professionalism, the reputation, the creativity, the strong liberal arts curriculum. Applied and accepted. Read on.</p>
<p>Brown University: Located right next to RISD. Daughter went to info session at my insistence “because it’s right next to RISD and we’re here.” We both HATED the info session and didn’t even stay to the end. When someone asked, "What makes Brown different from Harvard or Yale, the response was, “that’s for you to find out.” We left and didn’t take the tour. Instead, we just walked campus on our own and talked to random students about the school, the academics, the weather, etc. We received honest, sincere answers, which were much more useful than the nonanswers from the info session. AND GUESS WHAT … she’s at Brown now and LOVING IT! She applied to the RISD/BROWN Dual Degree program, was accepted, and enrolled. First year was at RISD. This year is at Brown. The two experiences are very different, but very complementary. </p>
<p>Morale of the story: While a school never gets a second chance to make a first impression (namely, bad info sessions), don’t write it off too quickly. Take a walk around, interact with kids, and gather your own info/conclusions. Be the info session you need.</p>
<p>Wow, Georgia4444, that is quite a saga with a twist! Thanks for sharing your experience.</p>
<p>Thanks, Georgia4444! </p>
<p>It is really up to the students to do their own research and develop a thoughtful, informed list of pros and cons for each school. No school should be judged solely on the quality of their info session.</p>
<p>I’m surprised at the indulgence of some parents who book flights and hotels to visit schools which their children immediately dismiss for trivial reasons. If I make the effort to chaperone and pay for these visits, I expect my kids to be thoughtful and through in their evaluation. </p>
<p>I think some parents look at these college visits as “mini vacations” with their kids. They try to rack up as many visits as possible. I’d rather take a relaxing trip to the beach!</p>
<p>RPI was terrible. 75% male and 100% unfriendly. Everyone sitting alone in the dining hall. Just a bad vibe.</p>
<p>Georgia4444 - you are probably Brown’s best PR on this board. I loved Brown, (not in the admissions office but the school itself), son did not. I tried to keep in mind my own college visits at ALL the schools we visited and mostly that was that I never went in the admissions office again. So… whether or not they have great set up means very little in the end. My niece went to undergrad at Reed and then RISD for graduate school. Now she’s looking at going further (my sister says shes going to become a professional student) and doing whatever it is at Brown.</p>
<p>Georgia4444 - interestingly enough, D1 had a similar feeling after a year at Carnegie Mellon in the fine Arts Dept. Structured, formula, not enough individual attention. Felt she was in the wrong place and possibly wrong major. Transferred to Hampshire - totally away from design and loves everything about HC.</p>
<p>Modadunn, our Brown experience was in 2007. I hope they’re doing a better job packaging themselves now. No school is “above” having to explain itself to interested parties. What ended up impressing my daughter most was the info session Brown held in the Atlanta area. The rep articulated the Brown distinctives very well, gave very specific and helpful applications information, had a polished video presentation, and came with two other reps. They made themselves available for questions, followed through with promised information, and caught my daughter’s attention when she talked about how an IB diploma carries alot of weight at Brown. In fact, it is the only way to exempt classes at Brown (AP credit won’t give advanced placement). My daughter had asked other schools how they handled IB, and some of the schools didn’t seem to know what it was. The info session in Atlanta was as helpful as the info session in Providence was NOT. On the other hand, CMU put together a fairly good tour and info session in Pittsburgh, but the Atlanta session left her very uninterested. On a third note, she went through the personal interview scenario here in Atlanta with a Brown alumni, CMU alumni, and WashU alumni; and even though the WashU people were the friendliest on campus, the WashU alumni interview left her cold. Go figure. </p>
<p>After reading some of the comments in this thread, I would like to go on record saying that the open curriculum at Brown should not mislead people into thinking Brown is any less serious about delivering a quality education than its peers. On the contrary. It is every bit as serious, has specific graduation requirements for each concentration, and tells kids they will NOT get into graduate school if they pass/fail all their classes. The open curriculum requires students to make choices about where they want to go with their education. The choices start with some serious introspection. Students interact with other students, advisors, and professors as they search for their educational passion. Brown allows students to “shop” as many classes as they can for the first two weeks of each semester. They check out the course material and requirements, the professors (she hasn’t had any TA’s yet), and the course load. My daughter ended up adding another class this semester during the shopping period. This results in a greater sense of ownership and investment in the entire educational process. How many of us have heard our college kids complain about a dud professor or a misrepresented class? And with classes easily costing $4000 each in tuition alone, it can only be a good thing for a student to have maximum input. My daughter loves all her Brown classes. I have yet to hear a complaint about the professor, her peers, the quality of education, or the work required. </p>
<p>Can you go to Brown as a pot-smoking hippie who doesn’t need a job after graduation, as one post stated? Sure. But you’d flunk out there, just like you would at any other Ivy. And you’d waste the opportunity for an amazing education among alot of very talented, well-grounded kids who are doing their very best to capitalize on all that makes Brown such a great place.</p>
<p>No, you’d get C’s and B’s.</p>
<p>Interesting one-liner, barrons. Care to explain?</p>
<p>Georgia4444, I think your first post was very informative (I’m the parent of a junior and just beginning the process). But I have to say, I took the Brown response you quoted, “that’s for you to find out,” differently than you did. I understood it as the admissions counselor advising you to do your own due diligence, which in fact, you did as soon as you left the session by interviewing the Brown students themselves. Most of Brown’s obvious differences relative to its peers (particularly the open curriculum), are noted in every college guide. </p>
<p>Of course, I may be defensive here; my husband is a Brown alum and I took courses there as an undergrad b/c my college has an exchange w/ Brown. We both love the school, and believe that it attracts and cultivates independent thinkers.</p>
1 Like
<p>Georgia, what I think Barrons meant is that you cannot flunk out of Brown, since the lowest grade Brown gives is a C. At least that’s what the Brown admissions rep said at the session I attended.</p>
1 Like
<p>
The lowest grade given is a C, but you are not guaranteed a C. In other words, you can fail to pass a course. If you do not pass enough courses, you can be suspended.<br>
</p>
<p>Interesting. I haven’t heard the C = lowest grade before. Will ask my daughter about that.<br>
RenaissanceMom, in retrospect, I can agree with your interpretation. The session was run by the Professor of Hispanic Studies. She had a heavy accent, and maybe the intent behind the answer got “lost in translation.” From reading this thread, however, it appears Brown still has quite a lot of room for improvement re. info sessions. Presentation DOES matter, especially when statistics show most people “make up their mind” about another person within the first 30 seconds of contact. Sounds like the same 30-second assessment also applies to colleges, although IMO that’s really shortchanging the process. With that said, if the choice is between a snazzy info session but mediocre education, or a mediocre info session but topnotch education, the second scenario is easier to rectify than the first. Best is when the info session truly reflects the quality of education. At RISD, it does. They do it right.</p>
<p>My good friend formerly taught econ at Dartmouth. The one thing that was very different from where he currently teaches (Wisconsin) is that they will not allow failure. They will pretty much force-feed you tutors and other help and grading at the lower end is pretty easy. Yes if you really try you can flunkout, but it’s hard to do.</p>
<p>Barrons, interesting. You mentioned Dartmouth – are you applying your comment across the board to all the Ivies? Honestly, I don’t have a problem with making tutors available, providing support of various types, and even having a wide definition of a “C”, which means average, after all. I’ve sent three daughters through college and have seen how many issues they have to sort out during those 4 or 5 years as they transition from high schoolers to independent adults. We like to think it is always all about academics, but it’s not. Even when it is, most kids hit the wall at some point. Some are better equipped with a strategy, others have to work through it and develop coping skills. The education process is comprehensive and should be treated as such. My other D is at Davidson with a 3.8 GPA. You couldn’t ask for a harder working kid. But this semester, the GPA will drop because she’s looking at a low C in organic chemistry. I wish her prof had provided a tutor, and I hope she doesn’t fail. She has put her heart and soul into that class and is, despite her best efforts, only AVERAGE.</p>
<p>Now if a kid doesn’t even try, that’s a different story. It means they probably need to be somewhere else, which is reflected in the “mandatory 1-year suspension” policy.</p>
<p>I might exclude Cornell off the bat and maybe Penn. I think the gentleman’s C is alive and well at the rest.</p>