Colorado Boulder for VP?

College Majors Music Major
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<p>I'm curious ...</p>

<p>Can anybody here share any experience at all with the University of Colorado-Boulder for Vocal Performance? Any insight into their graduate voice programs? Faculty? Operas? Performance opportunities in the surrounding area?</p>

<p>I know a little more about their string programs than I do their voice programs, but have heard good things about both! I'd love to learn more!</p>

<p>I'd be curious to hear about school visits (for voice majors), auditions, graduate and undergraduate voice programs, what it's like to attend, first impressions, last impressions, and everything in between!</p>

<p>Thanks in advance. :)</p>

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<p>Julie Simson is leaving CU Boulder for Rice in the fall. [Shepherd</a> School of Music - Houston, TX - NEWS AT THE SHEPHERD SCHOOL OF MUSIC](<a href=“http://music.rice.edu/news/052512.shtml]Shepherd”>http://music.rice.edu/news/052512.shtml) I don’t know the impact on the program but it is something you should consider.</p>

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<p>I visited the CU Boulder campus a couple of years ago and had the opportunity to sit in on a recital given by one of Jennifer Bird-Arvidsson’s students. The girl was very polished, beautiful concert. I have not heard students from any of the other studios so cannot comment on them. I can say however, that there appeared to be many students at this recital and they seemed to be very supportive of each other.</p>

<p>The city of Boulder is delightful with an area of cafe and shops that is fun to stroll around, or to sit and chat with friends.</p>

<p>It is a program I researched some and wanted DD to apply to. However, at the time DD was determined to be at a conservatory in a large city.</p>

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<p>I’ve been a lurker here for awhile… </p>

<p>I applied to CU Boulder for MM VP, and honestly, it was my top choice for months. The faculty is what makes the program so wonderful. Pat Mason is a phenomenal baritone, Jennifer Bird I found to be a very adaptable teacher depending on what the student needed, and Julie Simson was just flat-out a great pedagogue with a real aptitude for what each student needed. On top of that, the whole program is a very smooth-running machine. All students and teachers get along from what I saw and experienced the few times I was out there. However, when Julie announced she was leaving, naturally several of her students wanted to follow her to Rice (don’t blame them; it’s hard when you’re getting your masters to up and switch teachers), and then the tenor teaching there also had a great job offer elsewhere he decided to take. So the program is kind of shifting to a new era, and I couldn’t tell you what that holds. They had Rebecca Folsom out there to try for Julie Simson’s place, but that didn’t work and they hired another teacher whom, from what I hear, doesn’t have a lot of performance experience but has an abundance of teaching experience. I don’t know who they’re thinking about for the other faculty position. </p>

<p>I also need to rave for a second about the collaborative pianist program. Every master’s student gets their own pianist that turns up for every lesson and is required to work with their singers regularly. This is something not a lot of schools do. UMich is the only other school I can think of off the top of my head that has something like this, and it’s simply the biggest blessing a singer could ask for. And Dr. Moteki who coaches singers and pianists at the school is a remarkable woman and instructor. Very positive, upbeat, and she is a very sensitive musician. I take away new stuff from her every time I work with her or am simply sitting in on a masterclass. </p>

<p>Boulder is a great albeit expensive town. It is possible, if you are financially independent of your parents, to gain instate residency after residing in CO for a year, even as a student, so that does cut down the expense somewhat. However, then you have to worry about audition season… not a lot of YAPs bring their auditions anywhere near Boulder. Most of my friends there fly to NYC and do a 7-10 audition tour and fly back. Or they all carpool in one car down to Houston, TX. This gets to be really expensive and time consuming. You are near Aspen which is great. CU Boulder also does a contemporary opera every summer which pays a little. There are also a few regional opera companies one can audition for. Not to mention, there is always church work in Denver which isn’t a bad drive from Boulder. Public transit is VERY good in Boulder and Boulder-Denver. </p>

<p>I ultimately turned down Boulder after a) I got no money, but I’m a soprano, so go figure b) I had wanted to work with Julie and then Jennifer, but Julie is leaving and Jennifer had no room in her studio. Pat Mason was the third choice on my list–he is a very organic singer and a complete artist. However, in the end, I decided it was better to chose a teacher that I knew could really refine my very raw upper register which is there but has been mostly untouched. c) I went to a very no-name liberal arts college that has produced only one international singer in the last five decades. I did give in to the name-game by choosing a “brand name school” to help beef up my resume and to shush audition panels who practically shut down before I opened my mouth everytime they saw where I went to school. I even had teachers who didn’t want to hear me sing when I said I had a BA in Music from such and such. Of course if they gave me half a chance to sing something they completely backpedaled and were more than gracious towards me, but it hasn’t been easy. </p>

<p>All that said, I still have some regrets about my decision. There is a lot to be said for having a happy, nurturing environment, particularly for singers whose voices are so sensitive to stress and emotion. I do think a lot of young singers overlook this aspect. I ended up being relieved being rejected from Rice because when I realized what a hot and miserable city Houston could be, I realized if I ever had a bad day singing, it wasn’t like I had a lot to look forward to off the stage (sorry Houston lovers, it just wasn’t my kind of place to live).</p>

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<p>Thank you all for your informative posts! </p>

<p>latido, your detailed post was particularly helpful and insightful. Thank you!</p>

<p>I’m curious, latido… Are you saying you consider CU Boulder to be somewhat of a “no-name school” for grad school? If one attended CU Boulder after what some might call a “no-name” LAC for undergrad (BM), is it your opinion that they would have more trouble getting their foot in the door for an audition? Men, too, in your opinion? Or is this yet another one of those soprano curses? ;)</p>

<p>It seems that the most common wisdom I’ve heard is – go to the best teachers you can find (and can afford) for your voice – because what counts in the end is how you sing (oh, okay, and the rest of “the package!”)</p>

<p>Opinions?</p>

<p>Thanks so much to those of you who have PM’d me recently! I very much look forward to responding! But right now I’m on my iPad, which makes PM’ing even more cumbersome! I will get back to each of you soon! But thank you, thank you for your consideration, suggestions, and sweet helpfulness!! You all made me happy!! Thanks. :)</p>

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<p>It’s not that I don’t consider CU Boulder to be a no-name school for voice–I know a lot of very, very good singers who are now teachers that came out of that school. But if you were going to try and compare its reputation to a conservatory like, say, Mannes? A lot more people would readily recognize the “brand name” of Mannes moreso than Boulder–at least, this has been my experience. </p>

<p>As for LAC followed by a perhaps not-as-widely-known-music-program…You’re going to get two different kinds of responses to this, and neither is wrong; they’re just simply two different approaches. </p>

<p>The first that some teachers will say is if you went to a school with a not particularly well-known vocal program for undergrad, you must go to a school with a highly regarded reputation for its vocal program, preferably with a well-known teacher. If you have the connections and names established well beforehand, you’ll always find work. </p>

<p>The second is it doesn’t matter, as long as you have the right teacher and can make the proper connections to a bigger music scene beit in NYC or Europe. If you have the voice, people will hear you and hire you for gigs/yaps. </p>

<p>Personally, I had both these opinions thrown at me back and forth when I took my gap year. I ultimately said the teacher is my priority and didn’t try to choose one opinion over the other; I respect both. Choosing my present grad school over CU Boulder was more greatly based on the teacher than the name; the name thing was almost an aside. I guess my opinion in regards to, “does going to a school like CU Boulder make it harder to get auditions/get hired,” I would say no. BUT, having a bigger, well-known school on your resume can certainly help–especially depending on who’s running the program/who the audition panel is! Does that make sense? </p>

<p>The other singers I have talked to who have attended LACs or unis with lesser-known VP programs and then went to grad school all said they were strongly encouraged to apply to big(ger) name schools for grad. How did that go for them? Well some were smart and found good teachers and some… honestly some I thought made bad decisions–and are coming out with a lot of debt to boot. So again, it really does come down to the teacher in the end and being aware of what it is you need. If you aren’t sure, now is the time to start asking your voice teacher. </p>

<p>Hope this helps… If you need any names/connections/info about CU Boulder, PM me. It really is an awesome school, and I’m hoping that the new faculty will be as strong as the previous.</p>

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<p>^Thank you so much for yet another very thoughtful response, latido. I get what you’re saying. It makes perfect sense. :)</p>

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<p>This is very interesting to me, as my daughter has the predicament of choosing between a very prestigious conservatory with no grants or scholarships versus an LAC with an great reputation and almost a full scholarship. As I hate the thought of her (or us) carrying a ton of debt, this should be a no-brainer, but we are very strung up on the appeal of a world-class conservatory. I flip between thinking she should save her (our) money for graduate school and thinking she should grab that once-in-a-lifetime conservatory offer with both hands. Any thoughts on this would be most appreciated. If anyone would like to pm me about it, I can share the names of the schools. We need to make a decision by the end of the week and are so conflicted! Daughter is an undergrad voice major (soprano).</p>

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<p>Annie, it should be primarily about the teacher, first and foremost. Only if she has two equally good options for teachers at both school should she then consider reputation and finances, in my opinion. I was (am) in a very unique situation since I am utilizing my untouched college fund to pay for graduate school. Not a lot of singers have this kind of financial safety net. Both you and your daughter should strongly consider whether or not you can afford the debt. I met so many singers on my audition your for grad school who had debt ranging from 35k-150k. It was astonishing. A lot of these singers were going to grad school simply to postpone paying off their undergraduate debt.</p>

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<p>annie43,
I am of the opinion that you should heavily, heavily weight the lack of debt at the LAC when comparing the two schools. No debt from undergrad is HUGE, and I think it should be a HUGE player in your D’s decision. I don’t think either of you will regret it. As long as the voice teacher at the LAC is a great match for your D’s learning style and is “good-enough” in terms of vocal health and technique, and as long as all the other factors your D’s looking for in a music and liberal arts education are “good enough” at the LAC, I strongly believe the LAC is the best choice. ESPECIALLY for undergrad. But there are others who would disagree with me. As you know, there are two general schools of thought on this one. </p>

<p>People talk all about the teachers. Unfortunately, in my opinion, one can’t really know how good a voice teacher is when they’re just coming out of high school with zero connections and minimal exposure. At least that’s how we felt when my son was in your daughter’s shoes. I’ll let others weigh in on what to look for in the teacher. I would think that, number one, you’re looking for good technique that equates to good vocal health. But how does one really know if a prospective teacher can offer that at your stage of the game? That’s what always got me when I was where you are.</p>

<p>Back then, my son learned about his prospective undergrad voice teachers by reading what he could online and by asking lots of questions from people who had experience with the various teachers. He also had several sample lessons with all the teachers. Of course, it was easier to gauge the knowledge and success of the teachers who were from the better-known schools! But he talked to enough people who knew, and who had worked with, the teacher at the LAC prior to his decision that he was pretty sure the LAC teacher knew her stuff. And, it turns out, she really did! But, I will agree with you, it’s a tough decision and it’s not easy to navigate that decision fresh out of high school!</p>

<p>My son was faced with the same choice 4 years ago. He chose the LAC. Now, his undergrad debt is minimal – significantly less than if he had attended his first choice conservatory. We have absolutely no regrets. However, his undergrad choice does seem to render his graduate school choice all the more critical. He wonders: “How important is that big-name recognition?” Naturally, he still doesn’t want to take on a bunch of debt! Should he now choose the more elite conservatory with much more debt over a less-well-known school with significantly less debt, or should he take a gap year to re-group and aim for next to no debt next year? These are really tough decisions.</p>

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<p>^I’ve been thinking about it since posting … I’m going to temper that. My son has no regrets so far. He’s still young. I suppose it’s possible that he may come to regret his choice some day. But so far, he has no regrets.</p>

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<p>I’ll add to SimpleLife than when evaluating teachers, encourage your child to sit in on lessons with the teacher. Those can almost be more insightful than having a trial lesson. See if there’s a masterclass going on–that’s even better because you can then hear a chunk of the teacher’s students. I think it’s important to listen to other students if at all possible and see if you like what you hear. If you aren’t a musically inclined parent or if your child isn’t quite at a high enough level to weed out the good from the bad, trust your gut aesthetically. Truly, if you find a particular voice off-putting, chances are there’s something technically unsound. If a teacher continues to encourage that kind of sound or you notice the same off-puttingness in other singers of the same studio, look elsewhere. </p>

<p>I also posted elsewhere about gap years. I personally think they’re a great idea because voices take a lot of time to develop, so why not take the time to focus solely on refining technique or adding rep for a year at the half-way mark before investing in even more education? Also a great opportunity to save at least a little money. You have to be extremely motivated, though, and stay focused.</p>

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<p>Thank you SimpleLife and latido. This has given me so much to think about.</p>

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<p>^Oh, yeah. I forgot. I agree with latido, of course. Masterclasses and other students’ lessons were helpful. My son also sat in on studio classes for nearly every single prospective undergrad teacher. Those classes were very revealing! Not just for evaluating technique, but for evaluating the tone of the studio. Some studios (teachers) were more light-hearted and “fun”; some were more serious and “disciplined.” My son had a clear preference for one type over the other. If he hadn’t attended the studio classes, he never would have known; he didn’t perceive the difference in his sample lessons alone. Of course, that doesn’t help you much now, annie43. (You’ve probably already done that by now anyway.) But it might help others later.</p>

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<p>Of course the proper teacher is very important, but it’s also very necessary to look at the program and school as a whole. Make sure that the department is on the same wavelength.
Teachers leave, that’s just a fact of life. You can ask all of the right questions and make plans but teachers are human; they get sick, have families, take positions elsewhere, etc. If the timing is right and a student can transfer, that’s fine but sometimes that’s just not possible. My D had to adapt to a new voice teacher for her senior year just in time to prepare for grad school auditions. It wasn’t the optimum situation, in fact it was really rough for a bit, but it turned out to be a good thing and now she’s much more secure in knowing that she can adapt quickly and that she also has the necessary skills to learn and work on her own. She had a good audition season and was given the lead in the final opera of the school year ( she was great, by the way!!).
All if this just underscores that things can and do change and as kids aspiring to performance careers, they need to be able to roll with the punches. Lorelei has given excellent advice about programs in general: looking for programs that assign appropriate rep and roles suitable to age and voice type. Look at things as parts of a whole not as stand alone pieces.</p>

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<p>I just wanted to report back that my son has decided to attend CU Boulder for grad school! (MM VP)</p>

<p>We are both very excited about this decision. He made the decision following a really great visit. The voice program seems to be really solid! From what he can tell so far, they are focused on all the right things – good technique and instruction, plenty of performance opportunities (4 operas +), and high standards for diction, comprehension, musicianship, repertoire, and style. The voice faculty is noticeably extraordinarily cohesive! They seem to take the approach that they are a team, and that the team is responsible for ensuring that the each student gets from the program just what that particular student needs, though each student is assigned to one particular studio. Ideal! My son’s CU voice teacher made a great impression on him. He is smart, personable, kind, and talented. It is clear that the CU Boulder School of Music has an outstanding reputation within the state of Colorado and has some outside connections, and various performance opportunities exist as a result. The faculty members that showed my son around were great communicators and were very personable. The facilities were beautiful. The surrounding town is beautiful. They were able to extend a generous aid package to my son as well, which was extremely important to us. What more can be said?</p>

<p>Since announcing his decision on CC, I have received more than a handful of PMs from parents of other CU Boulder “kids” who have great things to say. </p>

<p>As my son makes his way through grad school there, I’ll be sure to sporadically share more. This school seems like a gem! How wonderful that he found himself a great new home – and in a place that hadn’t initially attracted his undivided attention! </p>

<p>All my best to all of you in your college searches! :)</p>