Columbia "bad" for undergrad?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Columbia University
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<p>So I got into Columbia and was so excited...I love New York, the campus is gorgeous, I love The Core, etc.</p>

<p>BUT when, in my just-accepted frenzy, I was looking at things about Columbia for undergrads, all I seemed to see was: tiny dorms/bad housing, boring classes (didn't think this was possible?), little social scene, horrid gym, weak Alumni network b/c of lack of school spirit (the actual rah-rah spirit isn't important to me, but the alumni network is), and that they really neglect their undergraduate students.</p>

<p>Now I'm rethinking Columbia as my first choice. Obviously no ivy league school is going to give you a "bad" education, but I don't want to be disappointed next year. Any insight to this? Is it better to save Columbia for Grad school??</p>

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<p>Same thing happend to my D first choice but after few visits and hearing from students who leave there,she change her mine, she’s thinking Cornell she got accepted there. Good luck with you.</p>

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<p>Columbia is like a number of schools that tend to have serious students and not a whole lot of cohesive school life. In terms of alums, I think it has a lot of connection. One of my dear friends is a die hard Columbia ALum, the chair for his year and he is always having events for students and other alums. I’ve met a lot of Columbia students through him, and they seem to be very happy at the school.</p>

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<p>Hello SRHS12. I’m coming from just about the opposite point of view as you. I was completely resigned to coming to Columbia. Financial aid had fallen through at my dream liberal arts schools, I hated the idea of the city and the Core, and I was completely turned off by the negative comments on forums like this one and on Bwog.</p>

<p>But you know what? I absolutely love it here, and I’d like to attempt to tackle your concerns a bit. As for tiny dorms/bad housing…well, I guess my freshman dorm is a little small, but its a single, its clean, and I currently have a gorgeous view of low steps where everyone is congregating during this nice weather. Next year, my housing might suck a little, but I’ll be with friends, and I might even have a private kitchen (ok, fine, like 5% chance depending on my lottery number, but it’s fine). Boring classes? Totally depends on what you’re taking. I’ve had some boring intros, but most have been really engaging discussion classes – I think you’ll get that mix anywhere, but if you like the Core, that’s +1 for here. </p>

<p>Social scene is a little confusing. Don’t buy into the whole “everyone runs off campus and doesnt care about campus life” thing. True for some, not most. There are parties and some great extracurriculars and constant goings-ons. I’ve enjoyed meeting people, making new friends and it’s been really good. I say confusing because I do think you need to be confident and really willing to be the friendly one in any situation – some people aren’t, and I think they end up being dissatisfied. Gym is fine by me? Alumni…not at the point where I care yet, but I can tell you that I will probably be a happy one. </p>

<p>Finally, commitment to undergrads. Two components: Admin and Professors. Professor commitment really depends – I think most departments love their undergrads because we’re sometimes moderately refreshing (probably sometimes a pain too). I question the econ department a little, though there are bright spots, but my experiences with History and Physics have been great (I’m already doing research and the professors have been great). Use CULPA and you’ll find great people (same goes for avoiding boring classes). As for the administration, some people really let things bother them. Personally, aside from financial aid office woes, our bumbling administration has not really been a detriment to my life. I think they’re really improving in general with reforms to advising, slow but constant housing renovations, responsiveness to dining concerns…things like that. We’ve also got some great advocates, like Deantini (Valentini), who are pushing to make things smoother and smoother. So I’d say that things are good and improving. </p>

<p>What are your sources btw? Bwog? Students? Here? It upsets me that posts on this forum might be scaring people away. I read some things from recent graduates, and they just don’t make sense. Their concerns are sometimes valid, but I don’t understand why their issues with Columbia made them so depressed. They seem pretty trivial to me, honestly…sometimes people are unfriendly and bureaucracy is annoying and the school spirit is lackluster, but that shouldn’t upset you to the point that you stay on this forum 5 or 10 years past your time discouraging people from coming. Most people are totally unphased by that stuff, and you will be too as soon as you get through this nervewracking phase of your senior year where it seems that every little issue could spell doom for your college experience. I was feeling the same way back then, and now I’m doing pretty great.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

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<p>the opinions the OP mentioned seem to come from a small but vocal minority. i know almost nobody that feels that way. housing is amazing when you consider you’re living in NYC. can’t ever expect to have loads of space living on the island of manhattan. social scene has never been a problem for me. its probably one of the few campuses out there where you can literally find the entire spectrum of college social life…from somewhat suspect greek life that is undoubtedly embraced by its members to people who club hard to people who just like to have smaller dorm parties with close friends. </p>

<p>the gym shouldn’t be an issue at all. if you’re coming from a super posh club atmosphere, you’re going to be disappointed. even if you’re used to having a machine or set of weights open to you when you want, you might get a little annoyed by having to wait a minute or two for something to open up. i’ve had very positive experiences with alumni networking as well as a majority of my professors. I’ll echo most of the statements made by the poster above me, and restate that I think the majority of these negative images get out there because those of us who love columbia don’t care to relentlessly publicize it. it isn’t in our dna–my sister goes to Univ. of Michigan, and literally a quarter of her FB posts and conversations with me consist of her promoting UMich. drives me crazy. columbians, from my perspective, tend to express themselves in the public sphere by promoting the subjects and activities that columbia has allowed them to pursue rather than promoting the brand name columbia itself. </p>

<p>in fact, columbia was on the bottom of my list. i wanted stanford or duke–a good academic school with competitive sports teams and a normal college social experience. i am eternally grateful i was denied from those schools. i think columbia provides an incredibly unique experience and almost forces its students to become assertive new yorkers. much more like the post-college world in my opinion</p>

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<p>@ Laachhatem and tymanx2</p>

<p>Thank you two very much. It’s great to hear that these kind of complaints tend to come from a minority. I shouldn’t have let internet forums psych me out. Obviously I’ll have to visit again, maybe stay overnight, and try to really get a feel for Columbia. I truly hope that it’s all I’ve imagined it to be and that I’ll be joining you two as a Columbia student next year. :)</p>

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<p>1) Columbia is not a happy place. It may be the online forum on Bwog that brings out the worst in students, but I truly believe that there’s an undercurrent of unhappiness and despair. It doesn’t permeate throughout the entire student body, but enough of us been through periods of intense sadness that we consider taking time off of school or transferring out. The recent suicide of Tina Bu stoked the debate about student wellness again.</p>

<p>[Tian</a> Bu, CC ’13, Has Passed Away – Bwog](<a href=“Tian Bu, CC ’13, Has Passed Away - Bwog”>Tian Bu, CC ’13, Has Passed Away - Bwog)</p>

<p>[How</a> We’re Doing | The Eye](<a href=“http://eye.columbiaspectator.com/?q=article/2011/12/01/how-were-doing]How”>http://eye.columbiaspectator.com/?q=article/2011/12/01/how-were-doing)</p>

<p>2) Advising is ATROCIOUS. Many advisers spend so much time worrying about paperwork that they have a tough time even knowing what the requirements for your major are. “Uhhh…let me check the bulletin on that.” </p>

<p>The CCE (our career center) has some great programs, but the staff can generally only give the most basic resume and interview advice. Even for finance and consulting, students look to undergrad organizations for preparation and advice.</p>

<p>[CSA</a> Wants You To Be A Peer Adviser – Bwog](<a href=“http://bwog.com/2012/03/18/csa-wants-you-to-be-a-peer-advisor/]CSA”>CSA Wants You To Be A Peer Adviser - Bwog)</p>

<p>3) There aren’t a lot of social spaces for undergraduates. There are over 27,000 students at Columbia and it’s NYC, so it’s expected that the number and quality of facilities will be less than peer institution. Housing is guaranteed but is a crapshoot for undergraduates. </p>

<p>Sophomore housing is far and away the worst. Junior year gets better with Schapiro and Broadway. Senior year can be great if your lottery number is good. Regardless, the lack of space murders the social scene at Columbia. There’s an entire section in Bwog called Housingmaster, dedicated to helping students navigate the hell that is is housing.</p>

<p>[Lerner</a> 2010: A Place For Students! – Bwog](<a href=“http://bwog.com/2010/05/06/lerner-2010-a-place-for-students/]Lerner”>Lerner 2010: A Place For Students! - Bwog)</p>

<p>[ask</a> bwog housingmaster – Bwog](<a href=“http://bwog.com/tag/ask-bwog-housingmaster/]ask”>ask bwog housingmaster Archives – Bwog)</p>

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<p>and appox 21500 of those 27000 are graduate students aren’t intimately involved with undergraduate social spaces. look, I’m not going to come out and say that Columbia is the most exciting social school out there. but most students aren’t looking for huge frat parties or something like that, and the social spaces are what you make of them–i for one am extremely happy attending a dorm party or two every weekend and hanging out with friends i’ve i’m already close with. but if you really want a huge party, people figure out ways to do this–clubs, raves, etc </p>

<p>as for housing, i’m extremely happy with my sophomore housing. if you’re trying to get a large single with people your age as a sophomore, that isn’t going to happen. but nussbaum (600 W 113th) is a great sophomore options (suite doubles with a kitchen, multiple bathrooms, a lounge, wood floors, etc.) and my friends in mcbain honestly don’t complain about it too much. i can only see things getting better next year. beardtax’s opinions are all completely valid, i just rarely see that mindset around campus</p>

<p>i’ve absolutely heard plenty of stories of sadness/despair and talked to people about this problem, but i also think that this mindset occurs in similar abundance at most universities. unhappy columbians seem to publicize it more than at other schools. the work is hard, you’ll have to grow up a lot while living here (LEARN TO BUDGET MONEY) but any other city will seem like easy to manage after college in NYC</p>

<p>again, every student is going to have a different experience. i think housing and social life are what you make of it. advising and the administration can be tricky (from what i hear), but i’ve never had a problem. i will comment that columbia has forced me to grow up perhaps faster than i wanted to, but i don’t see this as a negative any more</p>

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<p>Also keep in mind that nyc is a pretty expensive place to live. The cafes, restaurants and entertainment events (concerts movies, etc) are going to be more expensive than a regular town or small city.</p>

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<p>Despair and suicide are not just a problem in Columbia. The one place that I immediately felt that desperation was the day we visited Cornell. It was a gorgeous sunny day and the campus was incredibly beautiful but I could not forget the sight of high chain link fences installed on several bridges above rugged gorges. Cornell might be easier to get into but its engineering school is hard and demanding.</p>

<p>MIT also lost students to suicides this school year. What was even more alarming was that one student was not discovered in his dorm room till a few days later. Did no one notice he was missing during that time?</p>

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<p>class of 2010 alum here, I pretty much don’t post here anymore because I find it distracting and annoying to argue relentlessly with posters like beardtax who will propagate a negative view of Columbia no matter what.</p>

<p>I loved my time, it was difficult as hell, I faced many challenges socially, academically, extra-curricularly etc. but I grew up quickly and can safely say that I’ve benefitted immensely from my Columbia education.</p>

<p>you will find a full spectrum of personalities and happiness levels at Columbia, but if one thing rings true, it’s that the few unhappy ones never shut up and the majority of happy people don’t tell you all about. </p>

<p>you want school spirit, go to an ivy basketball game at our gym. One suicide this year, and it’s definitely one too many, but 5,000-10,000 students and alums packed our homecoming football game, were they all sad, unspirited people?</p>

<p>I made a social scene for myself, made lasting friendships and grew up. Been working for nearly 2 years now, I go back to campus to see friends, hang out at an old favorite bar or restaurant around once a month. I was hired by a Columbia alum (I’m not some rich, well connected person) and am about to be hired a second time by a Columbia alum who knew me. I was promoted within 8 months (usually 2 years), because I had a good attitude, remained balanced and worked hard.</p>

<p>There are real challenges and many opportunities to be upset at Columbia. It is not for the faint hearted, or someone who wants their hand held, you need to become a New Yorker: ambitious, independent, social, confident and mature</p>

<p>you might just have the time of your life, like I did, while you’re at it.</p>

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<p>I don’t really have time to write a long post right now but I thought I would weigh in here. I absolutely love every second I spend here. Housing is old, but then again, so is Columbia. I am more than satisfied with my dorm, especially because we are one of very few schools that enables almost every freshman that wants a single to have one. I really wouldn’t listen to this vocal minority because I can tell you that almost every person on my floor is beyond happy and would recommend Columbia even to their family and friends.</p>

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<p>OP, what you’re experiencing is natural; I had the same feelings of doubt and “buyer’s remorse” after I was admitted ED. Before you’re admitted, you’re focused on how unlikely it is you’ll be chosen and so you tend to idealize the school. Once you’re admitted—especially if you’re committed to attend as a result of ED—you have a reaction against that ideal picture of Columbia. </p>

<p>The criticism of Columbia you hear becomes lodged in the back of your mind and you wonder whether you’ve made a terrible mistake. I went through the exact same thing two years ago. But once I came to Columbia, my doubts pretty much disappeared. I really have loved all the experiences I’ve had and the people I’ve met here.</p>

<p>That’s not to say that Columbia is perfect. It definitely isn’t, and there are definitely problems facing the Columbia community—particularly administrative bureaucracy, the lack of student space, and a social scene that’s great if you’ve made connections with people but very difficult if you’re shy or a loner. </p>

<p>It’s possible you’re not the right fit for Columbia, but I think that’s unlikely. You applied and were admitted early decision, so you’d probably enjoy your time here. Columbia is not for everyone, but it is a great school. Don’t let your natural doubts and feelings of “buyer’s remorse” lead you to reject the amazing opportunity you have to be a Columbian. </p>

<p>If you decide not to attend because you think Columbia’s not a great fit for you, that’s fine. If you think it would be a good fit, but have been convinced by all the criticism that it’s a terrible school (where all the students hate each other, people live in 2x4’ dorm rooms, and student advising is just a slightly less bloody version of the Hunger Games), then I think you should still attend. You’ll probably love it here.</p>

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<p>Thanks, pwoods. That was really reassuring. I guess there will always be people who choose to focus on the negative aspects of everything, but talking to people I know at Columbia and reading some of the posts here, it seems that most people are really happy with what Columbia has to offer. :)</p>

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<p>A few questions on Columbia.</p>

<p>1) What are the total yearly estimated costs? How good is the fin. aid package?
2) Why is this not a good undergrad school? I heard it is great for undergrads till I bumped on this thread
3) What do you mean by “poor advising and administration bureaucracy”? Being one of the top Ivy Leagues, all I heard was positive advise and administration procedures.
4) Is dining available for all four years? Or do some people cook on their own?
5) How good is the food and is there a good variety through out the year?</p>

<p>Thanks for your replies.</p>

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<p>1) Yearly estimated costs are pushing 60,000. Generally, Columbia will match the fin. aid package of any comparable university and will provide aid for students with parents who combined salary is a little less than 200,000. That’s just what I’ve heard, nothing official.</p>

<p>2) Simply isn’t true. As is expressed in this thread, such a notion is generally supported by a vocal minority of students who have trouble adapting to the Columbia lifestyle. I find that generally, it has less to do with the quality of undergraduate education here and more a commentary on the comprehensive undergraduate experience (which they find to be negative).</p>

<p>3) Poor advising refers to some advisers not being extremely knowledgeable on the particulars of every single major. Some people complain because advisers simply use the bulletin or something like that to advise you, but I would never expect my adviser to know the exact details of my major. They are extremely willing to put the time in to find out from departments what you need to fulfill your degree requirements. I’ve never had a negative experience with my adviser–in fact, his hilarious update emails more than make up for any deficiency in his advising, of which I am unaware of.</p>

<p>People complain about administration for several reasons, all of which I’ve had no problem with. The biggest complaint is with space for student groups to meet. Honestly, I think this complaint is absurd–we’re in NYC for crying out loud. Yes, some buildings should probably be open to student meetings that aren’t, but things are changing for the better. I compare this to the NYC subway–people will compare it to Hong Kong or Tokyo subway systems and complain about the NYC subway’s inefficiencies, but you have to remember that this is a 100 year old system and that retrofitting an old system is incredibly difficult. Columbia is a very old institution in NYC with an enormous student body and very little space. There’s going to be some inefficiencies in the way space is managed. </p>

<p>4) Dining is available all four years and you can purchase different levels of meal plan–from 75 meals up to like 175 meals per semester. Currently, I’m a sophomore on 75 meals and I do some cooking but mainly end up buying all the delicious food around campus. Some people to quite a bit of cooking–I’ll need to next year if I want to go off the meal plan.</p>

<p>5) Dining hall food is mediocre, but I’ve actually found that visitors from other universities find it quite good. The problem is that Columbians naturally compare it to the all the delicious food around campus, which is a real problem because this is NYC–the competition just isn’t fair. People tend to find their own happy medium between dining halls, cooking, and local cuisine sometime around their junior year. I don’t believe this should factor in much to the decision making process, it’s a wash to me. </p>

<p>Hope this helps, let me know if you need any clarification.</p>

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<p>Thank you for the detailed post. that is very useful. few more questions - hope you dont mind</p>

<ol>
<li><p>For those students whose parents earn 200k combined per year, are no aids available (scholarships, merits or any other kind of fin aids)? So, how much do those students end up paying approximately per year including food, boarding, etC)</p></li>
<li><p>One of the CC posts had this link - [Columbia</a> University is a horrible school | Herd My Cattle](<a href=“http://herdmycattle.com/columbia-university-is-a-horrible-school/]Columbia”>http://herdmycattle.com/columbia-university-is-a-horrible-school/) - any thoughts on this for those who are actively evaluating columbia for UG?</p></li>
<li><p>for those who just do not want to cook all the 4 years, is it easy to survive on the food that is served in the campus? are there quite a few that belong to this non-cooking category or is it not typical to depend on the dining all the 4 years? how far are the food stalls that are outside the campus? why do people prefer to cook from the year 2?</p></li>
<li><p>Are there good veggie options in the campus? What percentage of the UG community are Asians/Indians? </p></li>
<li><p>How intense is the work load in general and how friendly/relaxed is the college atmosphere? </p></li>
<li><p>Are the campus staff very helpful to new comers? (for example, in resolving issues like phone, computer, location support, etc)</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Thank you and your time is appreciated!!!</p>

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<p>Some of your questions have already been touched upon in this post, but I can dig a little deeper. </p>

<ol>
<li><p>As I said, all things considered you’ll probably pay 60 K. There might be some options for enhanced loans, but you likely won’t be receiving any grant aid. There isn’t any direct merit aid besides that coming from outside sources.</p></li>
<li><p>Again, food shouldn’t be a problem–there are tons of options. You will be fine on dining hall food, I’m just somewhat of a foodie so I prefer to cook and eat the food around campus. ~5 of the 8 people in my suite don’t cook, and they manage just fine. The food around campus is close and abundant, you can find essentially any style of food and every price range. As it is with most colleges, people get homesick/too lazy to walk to the dining halls and thus opt to cook themselves. </p></li>
<li><p>There’s always good veggie options. Maoz is a place nearby that has pretty good falafel. You can look at the different statistics Columbia provides on ethnic breakdown, but for my class 25% of admitted students where Asian/Asian American. I think something like 21% of the matriculated class are Asian/Asian American, which is very high. There are lots of cool groups and events around campus put on by different Asian groups.</p></li>
<li><p>I’m an engineer, and the workload is pretty tough. While the college students tend to have a lot more reading, the engineers have loads of problem sets and more tests. It somewhat equals out, but generally the engineers work more. Columbia isn’t known as one of the easier Ivies, although we’re no Princeton either. Nonetheless, Columbia generally doesn’t schedule classes on Fridays except in the case of intensive language classes and the occasional miscellaneous course, which makes up for the stress big time. 3 day weekends are awesome, especially when you have NYC to explore. Columbia is sort of like the opposite of Stanford/Berkeley when it comes to the college experience–we live a fast-paced, intense lifestyle. But trust me, if you’re looking to chill a bit more, those 3 day weekends will do the trick. </p></li>
<li><p>I’ve found the staff to be very helpful, and even if they have a bit of attitude it usually ends up being endearing. New Yorkers are a different breed–if you’re not going to be assertive and confident, they’ll be less likely to help you out. Most don’t use campus support for phone/computer problems. I’m not quite sure what you mean by location support, but if you’re referring to getting around campus during your first few days, you’ll have a whole week here by yourself during New Student Orientation Program to figure out the campus with the help of mentors, etc.</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>tymanx</p>

<p>How tough is the Core Curriculum? What are the subjects that you had to cover during freshman year and in which semester does specialization of the actual majors typically start? For someone passionate in the sciences and maths, how difficult is the humanities part of the core curriculum (in columbia college). Heard its mandatory!!</p>

<p>Also, the Swim test seems mandatory for diploma and 2 semesters of PE seems to be a major requirement.</p>

<p>Does every one do 2 semesters of PE ? Are grades easy to achieve in PE for those who are not good in sports as such?</p>

<p>which hall is recommended for someone who wants to stay close to the dining hall, college campus, single room (suite preferably), single sex corridor preferably? what are the recommended choices?</p>

<p>thanks</p>

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<p>“i’ve absolutely heard plenty of stories of sadness/despair and talked to people about this problem, but i also think that this mindset occurs in similar abundance at most universities.”</p>

<p>Absolutely. Harvard definitely has the same issues of constant stress and antisocial attitudes. Cornell is, of course, full of despair. I think Yale tends to be more community-based and I’ve heard that most people at Brown are happy and easygoing, but there’s an incredible undercurrent of nihilism. I have friends at Bwog who simply could not take the environment. I think Dartmouth’s culture is very sociable since almost everyone’s involved in Greek Life.</p>

<p>The thing is, a lot of beardtax’s complaints are based in reality, but he had a particularly bad experience, which was accentuated by his choice of major (in SEAS). As for as Herd My Cattle, I’ve read that post and it is utterly absurd. Even the people who are most critical of Columbia would disagree with it; the criticisms are just so unhinged. The people complaining are clearly people who did no research before coming to Columbia.</p>

<p>Do you know that the Core is a series of small seminars focused on casually discussing important texts taught by anyone from trained PhD students from star professors? Then you already know more about Columbia than the people who wrote into that site. Seriously, they’re complaining that classes based on discussions among students were sometimes taught by graduate students. As if every class needs to be taught by a Nobel Prize winner.</p>

<p>But really, it should be clear that the Herd My Cattle people are full of ***** from the hyperbolic language that they use. There are legitimate criticisms of Columbia; Herd My Cattle’s article is not one of them.</p>

<p>As far as dorms, there aren’t too many single-sex floors. I think there’s one all-female dorm in Carman, which only has doubles.</p>

<p>Pretty sure PE is pass/fail and it’s impossible to fail if you show up to class. Don’t worry about doing well. Just worry about getting in, since PE classes, like language classes, fill up quickly! And yeah, either the swim test or a swim class is required to graduate.</p>

<p>Check out the Core site, which lists every book that you read in Literature Humanities (as a freshman) and Contemporary Civilization (as a sophomore): [The</a> Core Curriculum](<a href=“http://www.college.columbia.edu/core/]The”>The Core Curriculum)</p>