<p>Any threads on this?</p>
<p>I was accepted to both as transfers. I've lived in NYC my whole life, which doesn't matter so much, but I am looking to work in sports, whether sports law, for a players union, contracts, etc.</p>
<p>Which school do you think would help the most in terms of entering the field? I think law school would be my next step, but i'm also interested in philosophy too. I know law school admissions has alot to do with grades, which school do I have a better shot at doing well at?</p>
<p>In terms of job placement, internships, etc. in sports, which school could help me there?</p>
<p>Please let me know what you guys think, and any other advice, in terms of social life, etc. anything would be great, thanks</p>
<p>Columbia College >>>>>>> Cornell ILR.</p>
<p>Congrats on CC by the way. You were one of the lucky ~5% there, whereas with ILR you're one of the lucky ~50%.</p>
<p>well, lets see...</p>
<p>you really want to work in sports with contract negotions, player unions, and so forth. One school focuses on unions and teaches classes on unions in sports while the other does not. One school is known for placing grads into sports unions and contract negotion positions, the other is not. </p>
<p>Although I would agree that Columbia is likely stronger than ILR in several areas (though nowheres near the ">>>>>>>>" that a community college student from texas here seems to think), you are looking at one of the areas that is VERY unique to ILR and that the school excells in. I'm friend with the founders of the ILR sports management clubs, and they have gotten several excellent (and very prominent) speakers on campus this past semester, most of them are ILR alums. </p>
<p>If you were studying econ, i'd probably say go to Columbia. But be careful about your choice here. Prestige points to columbia, going where you want to go in life says ILR. </p>
<p>I may be able to point you in a few dirrections to answer more in depth questions, I know baseball contract negotiation is a big thing that I hear people talk about alot, but I think baseball is boring and I shy away whenever I hear the term in a conversation. Just ask if you want some details.</p>
<p>Also, for law school, ILR sends about 30% of its class every year to law school. I wouldn't consider it any better or worse than columbia though.</p>
<p>Ad hominem. How pathetic.</p>
<p>Gomestar, it doesn't matter what school I attended. Everyone you ask here will agree that Columbia College tops Cornell ILR by quite a bit. Your blind devotion to Cornell may lead you to believe otherwise, but that's your problem, not mine.</p>
<p>EDIT: The sports management factor may go to ILR, but everything else (including law placement, rigor of curriculum, integration as a transfer student, etc.) points to Columbia.</p>
<p><a href="though%20nowheres%20near%20the%20%22%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E%22%20that%20a%20community%20college%20student%20from%20texas%20here%20seems%20to%20think">quote</a>
[/quote]
gomestar, what a class act!</p>
<p>You were once a transfer yourself!</p>
<p>"Ad hominem. How pathetic."
sorry for that then. My point is to say I've been around the Northeast for most of my life, looked at Columbia very heavily in high school, and am very knowlegeable at both school and how they fare in prestige, rankings, student life, job placement, etc. Whenever I go to NYC (alot), I always stay with my friends at Columbia and have been exposed to the school quite a bit, more so than any other Ivy besides Cornell. Also, having parents that recruit in NYC for jobs also helps me gain a REAL idea of prestige, not the typical College Confidential view. It does matter where you went and what your experiences are, I'm sure you'll agree that CC here is not a fair representation of the public view on most colleges. </p>
<p>onto other things:
integration of transfer students points to Columbia? A school that accepts only 5% of transfer students and plumps them in with everybody else is better at 'integration' than a school that takes in over 500 students a year, has set up transfer specific housing for those who want it and has a VERY active transfer student activities and welcome program??? </p>
<p>rigor of curriculum? What does this have to do with sports management? What does this have to do with anything besides comparing schools that have heavy cores? ILR has its own curriculum requirements, but I never once decided to compare the 'rigor' if it with other colleges in picking where to attend.</p>
<p>"You were once a transfer yourself!"</p>
<p>I applied as a transfer after 1 semester at a top-50 northeast school, but I dont see how this is relevant. I'm not hiding it or anything, though I'd much rather discuss what I've learned in the years since as they're much more applicable. If anything, I should have a pretty good idea that Cornell is extremely well accomodating for transfer students thus boosting parts of my argument. </p>
<p>Are we saying a schools reputation is not determined in part by geographic location?</p>
<p>
[quote]
sorry for that then.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Accepted.</p>
<p>Re: integration of transfers - Columbia's smaller, more compact campus, smaller transfer body, and guarantee of good housing that is not miles away from classes would make it a better choice in my opinion. Cornell does have a good transfer program but there have already been numerous complaints about people getting placed into apartments off-campus, which will undoubtedly result in a different, likely worse experience for them. Point: Columbia transfers are practically equal to other Columbia students from the beginning. The university is sure to take only so many so that it can accomodate for them well and make them feel at home. Cornell may have a good program, but it takes MANY transfer students which has to make one wonder whether you become a number or an individual to the university.</p>
<p>Re: rigor - Cornell is known for being one of the more difficult concerning grades. I'm sure Columbia is no cakewalk, but if one is planning on law school the golden rule is: GPA+LSAT. Obviously if one expects a higher GPA at a more selective, slightly more prestigious school (Columbia), that would be the best choice for law.</p>
<p>In the end, perhaps if the OP was planning solely on sports management ILR would be the clear winner. However, Columbia (especially entering as a transfer) is quite the opportunity, and from every stat I've seen Columbia is a better choice for law.</p>
<p>more facts to look at:</p>
<p>columbia is ranked 9th, cornell 12th
columbia has slightly stronger student body, cornell has a higher peer assessment. </p>
<p>i agree that columbia is generally regarded as slightly more prestigious, but that whole ">>>>>>>>>>" thing? Come on, only here on college confidential, where prestige whores are known to be abundant and problems of students taking minute differences and turning them into huge problems is abundant. I'm certainly "Cornell blind", but I sure as hell am not "Collegeconfidential blind". </p>
<p>"there have already been numerous complaints about people getting placed into apartments off-campus"
where? I'm here every day, I dont recall any threads like this. The only ones I see are about on campus apartments that are quite nice. </p>
<p>"but it takes MANY transfer students which has to make one wonder whether you become a number or an individual to the university"
individual - trust me, I transfered here, I should have a pretty good idea. Besides, Columbia is known as being one of the universities that's rather disconnected with its students, should we take this into account? Does it really change for transfers?</p>
<p>"Cornell is known for being one of the more difficult concerning grades."
Cornell isn't an easy school, but the grades given out aren't any different than columbia.</p>
<p>and the 5 to 50% thing is just ridiculous! haha, but thats the type of advice you get from a community college student.</p>
<p>I'm not sure how factual data is ridiculous. :rolleyes: Columbia took around 5% of their transfers and Cornell ILR around 50%. Are you going to debate that?</p>
<p>P.S. I go to Wesleyan now. I'm sure you'll be in college in a year or too huh?</p>
<p>gomestar - I'm referring to the thread on housing in the Cornell forum and the statement from incoming transfers that something like 80% will be placed in off-campus apartments. Perhaps that's fine by some people, but it certainly doesn't help to foster a sense of community with the rest of the campus.</p>
<p>Agreed on Columbia being considered distant from the administration. I've heard the same, though I'm not sure how this has much of an effect on student interaction. The university has still taken the necessary steps to ensure transfers are integrated into the community without any notable disadvantages.</p>
<p>Re: grading, for whatever reason, Columbia places a higher percentage of students in top law schools than Cornell. I don't know the exact numbers, but am pretty sure that Cornell has a lower average GPA than Columbia.</p>
<p>In the end, Columbia is a very rare opportunity, especially for someone that applied as a transfer. I would at least want to surround myself with a smaller community of students and take advantage of the fact that I'd made the cut. If one really likes Cornell ILR more, that's great, but in the end the Columbia name goes farther and its students do better with regards to law placement. Perhaps ILR has its own niche in the sports management market that tops Columbia, but one should be positive they're going to follow that path if they're going to pick a school primarily based on that factor.</p>
<p>"I'm referring to the thread on housing in the Cornell forum and the statement from incoming transfers that something like 80% will be placed in off-campus apartments"
this number is completely false. You can call Cornell housing if you want, but this number isn't correct. I think it's 80% will be placed in apartments, but they're all on campus, and franky nicer than most of the dorms. 20% will live on another part of campus with other transfers and in 'typical' dorms. I havn't heard of any not being able to get housing. Furthermore, the apartments will be full of transfers and is where the main "transfer center" hub will be. </p>
<p>"Columbia places a higher percentage of students in top law schools than Cornell"
It's probably slightly true, but where are these statistics? I know people like to make alot of assumptions on things like this, I just dont want you to say it's true just based off of what people say here. </p>
<p>"but one should be positive they're going to follow that path if they're going to pick a school primarily based on that factor."
I disagree. Columbia has some perks, but I can't tell you that going to one will give you a clear edge over the other ... I think that doing well at both schools will open up the best doors we have in America. I'll let you know if my Columbia friends get some "edge" over me, so far it has not happened.</p>
<p>Re: law placement, unfortunately data is often only available to current undergraduates at those schools. FWIW, Columbia had 46 students at HLS and 18 at YLS (4.5% of the entire class for HLS and 1.76% for YLS). Cornell had 45 at HLS and 6 at YLS (1.41% at HLS and 0.18% at YLS). This data is available on those law school's websites and I am willing to provide a link if you request it. </p>
<p>On the flawed (IMO) feeder rankings Columbia also places considerably higher (~10) than Cornell (~25). As far as law school placement goes, these are the only things I can think of off the top of my head.</p>
<p>do you think the numbers are skewed by the 3,000 engineering students, 500 arch/art students, or the 3,000 in agricultural sciences at Cornell? </p>
<p>I think equal GPA's and LSATs from both schools will get the same results.</p>
<p>
[quote]
do you think the numbers are skewed by the 3,000 engineering students, 500 arch/art students, or the 3,000 in agricultural sciences at Cornell?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Very good point. The figure used currently is 3188 and when it is adjusted to a number reflective of only CAS (assuming 6,000 students in the college so approximately 1,500 in the senior class) Cornell's HLS rate shoots up to 3% but its YLS remains low at 0.4%. </p>
<p>
[quote]
I think equal GPA's and LSATs from both schools will get the same results.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I agree, but I wonder if it is the case that fewer Cornell students are capable of getting that equal GPA and LSAT than at Columbia. For whatever reason, even when comparing CAS to Columbia College directly, CC still comes out quite a bit higher.</p>
<p>Cornell and YLS wern't friendly last year for some reason. Then again, the school takes like 3% of those that apply, good luck no matter where you apply.</p>
<p>Both Cornell and Columbia are good schools. I would tell the person who is asking to go to the place that gives better aid if aid matters! Or if not, then he should go on the websites of the schools he wants to go to and see which of the two is a better feeder school?</p>
<p>I mean there is also the whole point of where he would be happier. That is really up to him. But Clinton let us know how it works out!</p>
<p>Point well made vcoleman. Suffice it to say, Columbia College is a very rare opportunity and - all things equal (aid, preference) - I would choose it. The benefit to ILR has been laid out well by gomestar, though I'm quite sure Columbia has the upper hand with top law admissions. Choosing based on personal fit is always the best method. If you do manage to pull off a similar GPA at Cornell, it really wouldn't matter which you'd chose.</p>
<p>I still dont think ILR's transfer acceptance rate is 50% - there's something fishy with that number and the whole GT mix, plus other weird things I've picked up on while working with admissions.</p>