@TransferGopher Frat boys have had a bad rep for decades. I mean, look at Sigma Alpha Epsilon. Girls refer to SAE as Sexual Assault Expected. So don’t pretend like this is one bad incident and aside that, all frat boys are saints. At least pretend to be objective.
Xiggi - you say “The truth hurts” - I don’t think you were trying to be ironic, but of course it’s instead the falsity that hurts so many people involved in this debacle.
@CaliCash
This is an interesting idea. We may have had a bad rep, but it’s still a generalization and stereotype. Greek life has the worst reputation it’s ever had and it’s still just due to a small minority of people. We’ll probably have a bad rep forever due to the small minority.
This shows you are out of touch. This is a joke among fraternities and Greek Life. (Not a good joke, but whatever) Also, every chapter of SAE is different, so assuming every chapter of SAE sexually assaults is silly.
Again, it is a very small minority that is getting national news.
Why? I’m in a fraternity and I’m proud of it.
Gopher, do you want a real conversation about this issue in general? Really?
Well, here is a good start. How about offering your own appraisal of the past of this organization:
http://sigmachiumn.com
Have the incidents they caused been prosecuted correctly? What is your view on the incidents? No big deal? The work of idiots?
How many repeated incidents are needed before a bad chapter is closed?
PS Just in case … To refresh the memory cells:
Both the University and the Interfraternity Council suspended three fraternity chapters in fall 2010 for event management issues relating to three sexual assaults reported at fraternity houses within two weeks. At least five 2011 sexual assaults at fraternities were reported to the Aurora Center for Advocacy and Education in 2012, according to the University police.
That is a deeply idiotic statement from the FACT checking chief who clearly declined to check the facts: More delusional denial that is reminiscent of “fake but accurate.” If that’s Rolling Stone’s fact checking policy then sorry, Will Dana, if you do what you’ve always done, you will surely make the same mistake again.
I think it’s time for Rolling Stone to change their editor. Dana’s obviously still not grasped the point that his team failed miserably, and as their manager he’s to blame.
Either RS’ policies were bad or employees failed to follow the policies. If the policies were bad, they should be changed. If employees failed to follow policies, they should be disciplined up to and including termination. RS can’t have it both ways.
Regardless of whether other fraternities have done bad things or not, this chapter has been falsely accused and suffered due to false allegations. Jacky is clearly a very disturbed person and RS mistook that for rape trauma. She fabricated not only this story but also posed as the attacker and other victims electronically. Amazing.
@xiggi This is always the first thing people bring up.
Now I’m not an expert on this, I wasn’t at UMN when any of this happened. But in the case of Sigma Chi, some of the details are iffy and no charges were filed right?. Theres not a ton you can do in that case.
They screwed up but they fixed themselves. Sigma Chi is one of the top houses on campus now, and they have a CRAZY amount of security at parties. It’s really good to see.
After the events that happened, the entire Greek Life party/security system was overhauled and is now extremely strict. We haven’t had an incident since.
Why don’t you look back and see the countless amounts of Gopher basketball and football players that have been arrested every year since who knows when. Nobody is generalizing them. (I’m in the middle of homework so it may take me time to respond)
I think some here are trying to paint others with too broad of a brush based on this reporting.
I don’t think this now discredited story shows no rapes happen, or that many do. I don’t think it proves all accusers of rape are always liars, or that none are. It doesn’t show all accused are guilty or that the accused are always innocent. I don’t think it either exonerates all Greeks or accuses them all. Obviously it will be harder to believe this reporter and this magazine from here forward, and harder for any accuser from here forward, and imo impossible to fully restore the reputation of those particular frat members. But that is my opinion based solely on the aspect of the parties involved in this case.
What I think it shows is that this particular reporter searched high and low to find a story that fit her agenda and when she found one, she ran with it without checking facts. Her colleagues and superiors at the magazine also wanted to promote the agenda, so they did no fact checking. Their combined efforts to deceive(or at least look the other way) will make it tougher to believe rape accusers in the future- and that was the opposite of their intent. That is sad. I fear this reporter and the magazine may have done more harm than good to the agenda they were pushing.
This now debunked story shows the willingness of a reporter to invent news rather than report it, her magazines’ willingness to cooperate, and by their actions after-the-fact it shows their hesitance to stand up, be accountable for the bad behavior, and to do little to seriously correct it.
To paraphrase a now famous phrase- what difference do the facts make at this point?
Every generation has to learn: don’t believe what you read in the paper.
@TransferGopher You can be objective despite your affiliation. You are putting people at risk. Your posts paint fraternities as these safe spaces for women, when they are not and if people believe what you are saying, they will be going in with their eyes wide shut. The fact that Sexually Assault Expected is a “joke” at MULTIPLE schools across the country shows the general authenticity of that acronym.
Yes, the bad chapters of fraternities and sororities should be shut down, and that is happening at most colleges - by both the national organizations and by the colleges. At another college, a sorority was shut down for 4 years for getting pledges very very drunk and then dropping them off at their dorms without taking care of them. One young woman needed her stomach pumped and had a dangerously high alcohol level. However, don’t tar the responsible fraternities and sororities with a really broad brush, just because there are some bad cases.
CaliCash - interesting comments from a hs student - how do you have any first hand insight into fraternities? Based on your other threads, you would be better off using your time to figure out what college you can afford to attend.
Advocacy pieces have always been a mainstay of journalism, however decades ago they were clearly labeled “Editorial” or “Opinion” and it was clear the intent. Journalists felt their “job” was to uncover the truth. These days, much of journalism is biased and written to promote a point of view. It’s a shame, because so many just simply believe whatever they read without any critical thinking. What is the old saying? “By doubting we are led to question, by questioning we arrive at the truth.” Some people don’t like to question when they should be doing exactly that.
Excellent piece in the Washington Post by Erik Wemple.
The donation aspect of the greek system is often touted as a benefit. But alas, it simply is not true. A quick search turned up some statistics - http://thefraternityadvisor.com/greek-life-statistics/ From 750,000 undergraduate members, about $7,000,000 was raised. That’s less than $10 each - not something I would brag about.
Its astounding to me that the release of an incredibly damning report on a major American magazine shows that they published a completely fabricated story without any fact checking at all, lied about attributions, and mischaracterized what actual few quotes they had and the response here is over whether fraternities are good or bad? Really?
The letter from Allen Groves shows to how far Ederly went to turn this into an opinion piece disguised as reporting. She wasn’t even concerned that there was a video of the event that would contradict her assertions. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7UAuEqoequKWEMyV1JlUFRqdjA/view
@rockvillemom Interesting comments from someone who is allegedly a grown woman. Could you be more immature? Why are you being so abrasive? And who are you to say what I must be worrying about? I’m entitled to the same privileges as a poster as you are. How rude.
If the only people entitled to talk about fraternities are people who are actually in them, we would never know about what goes on in them. I don’t need to be in Greek Life and in a fraternity to low that something is really wrong.
Can I be a cynic and remark that RS may be calculating the publicity the false story generated is worth the minute loss of their credibility?
That Erdeley set her fabricated story in a fraternity house (especially a mansion-like one located on a traditional, Southern campus) was no accident. It perfectly fit the false narrative repeated by many, that it is typical for campus rapes to take place in fraternity houses. This is in fact false; most campus rapes take place in the dorms and in the victim’s residence. No hard statistical information exists proving that rapes are likely to occur in fraternity houses. RAINN reports an ambiguous (unsupported) 10% statistic, with 90% of campus rapes not taking place in fraternity houses.
CaliCash,
I did not read your entire thread about your college search, only the part about you wanting to attend Northwestern U. I assume you are aware that NU has 47 Greek houses with 40% of the student body participating? That is a high percentage. How do you rationalize your perceived danger in fraternity men with your desire to go there?